1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 2/17/2008 6:53:28 AM
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KBFXDLI
Posts: 8054
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Cleveland, Ohio USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: celtlion
They put formula+ in all 3 holes. That's the official Harley recommendation for all service personell.
I hope you mean syn3....formula plus would toast your engine in very short time..
I have read that the HD primary & transmission lube is nothing more than a 40w motor oil. It's kind of frustrating that HD won't put any viscosity information on their lubricants. That in itself makes me steer clear of them. As for your transmission, it is fairly well known now that people are getting better results with most any GL5 rated 75w90 gear oil. Lots of people are using Mobil1 75w90 that you get at Autozone, AAP etc. Me personally. I like Redline Shockproof Heavy gear oil the best. Check it out at www.redlineoil.com . It is rated at 75w250 and really quiets your trans.
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Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. Sam Adams
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 2/17/2008 7:39:50 AM
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Lost1
Posts: 1492
Joined: 3/10/2007
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Syn3 can be used in all three holes, Formula+ cannot.
Ratcat- I wouldn't worry about the oil smelling bad when it was drained; I had the dealer do my 1k service & they put Amsoil Severe Gear in the tranny. I've done all my servicing since then and when I drained it out at 2500 miles (1500 miles on the oil) it stunk and had a lot of metal particles in it. That doesn't mean the Amsoil is bad oil, just that the tranny is breaking in. Like KB I'm currently using Shockproof Heavy in mine (it seems to quiet the 5th gear whine a little better than other oils) and am more than happy with it, but I wouldn't hesitate to use Formula+ if I had to. Are there better oils out there? Yep. Do you need them in your transmission? IMO no, but that's your call.
I have tried other oils in the primary (Amsoil, Redline MTL) but Formula+ seems to provide the best clutch engagement in all temperatures, so I'll continue using it.
For your tranny Formula+ will work fine, as will any brand synthetic or dino gear oil. It isn't an extremely taxing environment for the oil, and considering most tractor-trailer transmissions and differentials run dino gear oil for thousands of miles without being changed, I wouldn't worry too much about your H-D transmission destroying its oil- especialy if you change it every year or so.
As for Formula+, here's some product data & other info I picked up from the web:
Harley Davidson Formula+
Application: recommended for heavy-duty service in manual transmissions where the manufacturer normally recommends either engine oils or GL-1 lubricants.
Specific Gravity: 0.857
Pounds per Gallon: 7.14
Viscosity, ASTM D 445,
cSt at 40°C: 168.04
cSt at 100°C: 20.10
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 139
Brookfield Viscosity, ASTM D 2983,
cP at -26°C - 28,800
cP at -40°C - n/m
Pour Point, ASTM D 97, °F (°C): -60 (-51)
Flash Point, ASTM D 92, °F (°C): 507 (264)
Petroleum based.
Ca 169
P 230
B 210
S - some
Zn - essentially none
No other elemental additives.
Vis. within SAE 50 range.
Listed as a GL-1, tests out as a GL-3.
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 2/17/2008 7:48:23 AM
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ratcat
Posts: 205
Joined: 2/5/2008
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Hey...
You guys are great! Thanks for the input.
Sun is shining today in washington, I'm going riding...
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 2/17/2008 8:43:11 AM
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dawg
Posts: 5571
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Vermont
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I use Formula+ in the primary and Amsoil SVG 75/90 in the tranny. Redline shockproof heavy or Mobil1 75/90 is good too.
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 4/13/2008 9:42:25 AM
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HD32141
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/24/2008
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HD doesn't give you much data on their lubes- is Formula + a 20w50? Are you guys saying the tranny can use 20w50 or 75w90?
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 4/13/2008 12:55:23 PM
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Lost1
Posts: 1492
Joined: 3/10/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HD32141
HD doesn't give you much data on their lubes- is Formula + a 20w50? Are you guys saying the tranny can use 20w50 or 75w90?
Per my previous post Formula+ falls within the viscosity range of a straight 50W.
And yes, the transmission can use 20W-50 or 75W-90. In fact, most manual transmissions in automobiles these days are running 10W-30 engine oil or, in some cases, ATF.
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 4/13/2008 1:07:08 PM
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HD32141
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lost1
quote:
ORIGINAL: HD32141
HD doesn't give you much data on their lubes- is Formula + a 20w50? Are you guys saying the tranny can use 20w50 or 75w90?
Per my previous post Formula+ falls within the viscosity range of a straight 50W.
And yes, the transmission can use 20W-50 or 75W-90. In fact, most manual transmissions in automobiles these days are running 10W-30 engine oil or, in some cases, ATF.
So if I interpret all this correctly, and my preferred fluids are Mobil 1, I run synthetic 20w50 or 15w50 in the crankcase and synthetic 75w90 in the drive and tranny... yes?
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 4/13/2008 1:17:47 PM
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Lost1
Posts: 1492
Joined: 3/10/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HD32141
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lost1
quote:
ORIGINAL: HD32141
HD doesn't give you much data on their lubes- is Formula + a 20w50? Are you guys saying the tranny can use 20w50 or 75w90?
Per my previous post Formula+ falls within the viscosity range of a straight 50W.
And yes, the transmission can use 20W-50 or 75W-90. In fact, most manual transmissions in automobiles these days are running 10W-30 engine oil or, in some cases, ATF.
So if I interpret all this correctly, and my preferred fluids are Mobil 1, I run synthetic 20w50 or 15w50 in the crankcase and synthetic 75w90 in the drive and tranny... yes?
Yes, for the engine & tranny. For the primary, use engine oil or Formula+.
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 4/13/2008 2:09:28 PM
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KBFXDLI
Posts: 8054
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Cleveland, Ohio USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CSI Topeka
quote:
ORIGINAL: HD32141
HD doesn't give you much data on their lubes- is Formula + a 20w50? Are you guys saying the tranny can use 20w50 or 75w90?
There are guys running heavier gear oild than 75/90 in their transmissions with no problems at all. I have an aquaintance that sells Amsoil, so I am running 20/50 in the engine and primary, and 75/90 SVG in the tranny
I run redline shockproof heavy in my trans which is a 75w250. Takes 20 minutes to pour it in.
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Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. Sam Adams
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RE: 1st oil change in 08 ultra, What is Formula+ - 4/14/2008 5:55:47 PM
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iclick
Posts: 3524
Joined: 9/14/2005
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Formula+ is an unexceptional fossil engine oil with a small amount of EP for the tranny, according to someone here who had it tested. For that you are certainly getting ripped big time for the $6.50 you're investing, especially since the primary needs little more than a cheap fossil engine oil to do its job. I don't skimp on engine or tranny oil and use a high-quality synthetic for both, but the primary gets 10w40 I get at Wal-Mart for $1.24/qt. I used this and other brands of fossil engine oil in my '96 RK and had no trouble for the nine years I owned it.
I suspect that Formula+ is of a lower viscosity than 20w50, as when I consulted with an HD engineer a year ago he was hesitant to okay the use of 20w50 Castrol GTX in my primary to quell the clattering experienced by most '07 owners (later fixed by IDS). He said 20w50 was too viscous for most climates, implying the Formula+ was lower. I used the GTX for a while, then moved to the lower viscosity oil, and I didn't notice any difference. The GTX did seem to quieten the clatter slightly, but as I said IDS fixed the problem for good and there was no need for 20w50 from that point on.
If you must use a synthetic, find one that has no moly, as being a friction modifier it may cause problems for the clutch pack. I've never seen any evidence of this, but the concept makes some sense. Some use Redline MTL, which I think is severe overkill, but it has no moly in its formula and is recommended by Redline for the HD primary.
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