quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc 1

.....  The last BIG change is it allows you to record 15 min of data without carrying a lap top with you......this doesn't mean you push this magic button, ride for 15 min then program it into the computer and it is all done, matter of fact I don't see how this helps the tuner get his job done any faster or better....it's just bells and whistles as far as I'm concerned. 

Bottom line is you still have to Dyno tune your build to dial in the canned map to your configuration, it doesn't happen any faster nor are there any short cuts if you want it done correctly.

I'm not bashing this product I'm just stating it's the same thing in a different package and it isn't magic or a self learner that some have been led to believe. The tune up is still a 4 to 5 hour job for the average experienced tuner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc 1

Well again you have the same option with the old tuner but you have to pack a lap top along for the ride, matter of fact if you hook up the new Tuner with a lap top you can record 30 minutes of data just like the old version could.  A 15 min session of data is not a lot of usable information for tuning when under real road conditions things are changing in fuel delivery and timing by the different map loads on the engine.  On a dyno I have control of these conditions and I can hold the throttle position and rpm right where it needs to be for a sample of the fuel delivery for however long it takes....this is impossible to do on the road.  If it takes 4~5 hours to do dial in the VE Tables in a controlled situation how many 15 min rides do you think it would take you to get the optimum fuel and timing delivery set right.
With information gathered on a road test and knowing how to read that information you can get the bike to run better than what a canned map will give you but will it be good enough to call it a tune up....not even close.  You see, a bike will run fine at 15:1 to 11:1 but is it right.....my point is most people don't know what a good running bike feels like until you ride one that has been PROPERLY tuned by a good tuner....it's a WORLD apart. Now my problem is I love using the Race Tuner but anything other than perfection isn't good enough for me or my customers and this is where we might differ when it comes to doing it your self with 15 min road test vs doing it to optimum performance on a dyno in the least amount of time. 
I truly believe that the public is being led to believe just what your trying to tell me but in reality you would be changing your tires before you could get a good tune doing road data runs compared to properly synchronized Map made on the dyno.
I don't want to discourage you from giving you skills a shot, I'm sure it will be a learning experience and a lot of fun, but bottom line you won't reach optimum performance in your $15,000.00 investnment.....I think your Harley deserves to have the best, how about you.

Good Luck
Doc

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(in reply to Doc 1)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc 1

You can adjust the AFR but what are you adjusting it to if you don't know what you have, ie, the AFR table can say 13.5:1 but if your VE table isn't correct that 13.5:1 means nothing.  To get the AFR table synchronized you have to adjust the VE tables, if you don't know what the AFR is coming out the tail pipe you don't know where or which way to go with the VE tables.

The maps you buy from other web sites are still only a canned map for an configuration closer to your's.....nothing is saying that map has the correct VE for your build.....it's a better starting place for a good Dyno Tune.  Problem is most people don't know what a properly tuned motor cycle feels like and they are happy with a canned map that might be running fuel in the 15:1 or 11:1 AFR, once you ride a bike tuned right there is no comparison and I mean no comparison. (the difference is night and day)