is harley oil a must?
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is harley oil a must? - 3/10/2008 4:31:37 PM
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Crank_Case
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My first road bike is the 95 FLHTC all the guys use HD oil why cant i use mobil 1 ... should i put out the extra $ for the HD stuff? whats a good allternative?
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/10/2008 4:48:13 PM
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MikeyB
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You can use Mobil 1. Either 15w-50 or the 20w-50 V-Twin oil.
I'm using the 15w-50 since it's cheaper.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/10/2008 5:51:54 PM
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HGM
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Guys, seriously, how much of a difference are we talking about??? Just curious, but I find it hard to believe you could buy chrome valve stem caps with the change you save.. If you wanted "better" protection, that would be different..
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/10/2008 6:45:03 PM
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89 FXRS
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Harley Oil is junk. They bought from the lowest bidder. Just get a brand name. The best is Amsoil 20-50w.. For the primary a 10w or a 20w if you cannot find the 10w is what you need. Tranny is just gear oil.
Give me a break, when did HD go into the oil business that Hd oil is the best????
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/10/2008 6:46:15 PM
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pococj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HGM
Guys, seriously, how much of a difference are we talking about??? Just curious, but I find it hard to believe you could buy chrome valve stem caps with the change you save.. If you wanted "better" protection, that would be different..
The difference between Mobil 1 and HD Syn 3 is pretty significant, especially when cost is configured in.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/10/2008 7:28:28 PM
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HGM
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Well, thats my question.. Cost.... Even if HD oil was $5 more per quart(its not), you would be talking $15 per oil change.. That would be a significant "oil change" cost savings, but again, I really dont know what the difference actually is.. I forget, but I'm pretty sure I didnt pay even $5 per qt on my last oil change.. Cant say, I've broken it down to the penney. I havent had this bike long enough to change the oil but once and my last one was 5yrs ago.. I'm not trying to be smart, I'm asking a legitimate question, it doesnt make sense to me..
89 FXRS, sorry, I will never consider your brand of oil. I dissagree with the marketing tactics and do not believe in their claims.. No,HD is not in the oil biz, but they do have standards that thier oil must meet for their engines. Can you buy better oils, certainly. Can you buy worse, absoloutly.. Truth of the matter, in general, oil quality has increased so dramaticly over the past 30yrs that you are getting more than adiquate protection from the cheap stuff and will likely never notice a difference between your favorite and the cheapest bulk you can find... The factor to keep in mind is that HD(regardless of who actually makes it) oil is designed as a coolant, not just a lubricant, for an air cooled engine.. I feel better spending the extra couple of bucks on my beloved toy in the form of maintenance using an oil, I know fits the requirements for my engine, its endorsed by the manufacturer..
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 2:56:02 AM
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pajoe
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I tend to agree more with HGM in that brand name isn't as important as having an oil that meets the required specifications. I do know Amsoil has one heck of a advertising campaign that seems to work for them. I don't use synthetic and more often than not just pick up the Harley brand because it is about the same price as other brands at the outlets such as Dennis Kirk. I did read several articles and now led to believe it is better to limit the vicosity range, "20 to 50" is better than say "10 to 50" because of the additives they use to make the different viscosity tend to break down more quickly so the less they need the better, on the other hand I have read that using a straight 50 weight can be bad because the engine doesn't get proper lubrication when it's cold. I think some things Harley has learned and oil is pretty much one they have a lot of experience with, especially with the older evo engines. I lost track of how many times I changed oil, I usually try to do it around every 2500 miles and filter every 5000 miles, but don't always do it exactly at those intervals.
on edit: I did read some where that synthetic does not absorb the heat as well as dino oil and although the oil temperature may be lower with synthetic it isn't actually lowering the temperature of the engine as much as it appears. As most individuals tend to measure the temperature of the oil as oppossed to the engine temperature, it appears to them the engine is running a lot cooler than it actually is. It's hard to say because Amsoil has done such a great advertising job and flooding the market with their "spin". Everywhere you go that is all you see, they could have Amsoil win the presidency, if they wanted to.
< Message edited by pajoe -- 3/11/2008 3:03:12 AM >
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 5:39:42 AM
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MikeyB
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Also take into consideration that the HD oil is made by Chitgo, a Hugo Chavez company.
MikeyB
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 5:42:08 AM
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2003FLHPI
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get amsoil or mobil 1 and you'll be fine...stay away from fram filters too
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 6:03:09 AM
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dog155
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I have used Amsoil in all my toys for years.Nothing better!! Don't try to sell me any other brand,yes I am biased.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 8:05:38 AM
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guild
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Here's my two cents (with inflation im not sure) i have been a harley mechanic for over 35 years... We used Halrey oil on all the bikes (I had a shop) and never saw the oil cause a problem.. We have seen a lack of it or deciding not to change it cause problems but never a problem with the oil itself... I am not going to put down outhers ideas about oils but after this many years and the thousands of bikes i still use the Harley oil!
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 9:33:34 AM
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Mr1986FLST
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For my first 40k I used harley 20/50, 40k-100k I used mobile1 15/50, changing every 5k. Oil filter change every 5k. At 100k had engine rebuild due to defect in case that was non-oil related.
From 100k-150k I have been back to harley oil 20/50, but now changed every 2.5k.
I have not seen any significant difference between the 2 oils nor between the interval of the change. I will continue with harley 20/50 every 2.5k. I think using any decent oil that meets specs and is changed regularly will do the job but the specific brand or synth/dino won't make any significant difference if you are changing every 2.5 k. If you are stretching it out to 5k or more then an oil that does not break down as significantly will be more important. Rather than thinking about which oils will last the 5k or so, I just change at 2.5 k and don't worry about oil breakdown.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 9:44:46 AM
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HGM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MikeyB
Also take into consideration that the HD oil is made by Chitgo, a Hugo Chavez company.
MikeyB
Do we know this for a fact?? That is one thing that would make me look into options.. But, its got to be more than just hearsay..
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 9:59:32 AM
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fxstcguy98
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I run HD dino and HD filter, HD primary mostly because I get $25 chrome cash from a credit card, so the oil is dirt cheap. I recently changed to running Redline shockproof heavy in the trans, and I really like it and I can get it local at Jeg's.
edit
One thing though, if you get one of those credit cards, don't put more on it than you can pay off each month, the interest rate is like 14 to 20% depending on your credit. It'll put you in the poor house quick if you are irresponsible. my 2 cents
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 3:24:50 PM
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MikeyB
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HGM
quote:
ORIGINAL: MikeyB
Also take into consideration that the HD oil is made by Chitgo, a Hugo Chavez company.
MikeyB
Do we know this for a fact?? That is one thing that would make me look into options.. But, its got to be more than just hearsay..
Lubricants
Product H-D Part#...Manufacturer
H-D WINTER FUEL CONDITIONER 99889-91A HJS of Wisconsin
H-D FUEL ADDITIVE 99893-91A Polar Molecular
H-D FORK OIL TYPE B 99880-73 HJS of Wisconsin
H-D FORK OIL TYPE E 99884-80 CITGO Petroleum
H-D SCREAMIN' EAGLE FORK OIL (HEAVY) 99881-87 CITGO Petroleum
H-D SCREAMIN' EAGLE RACING FORK OIL (EXTRA HEAVY) 99909-93R CITGO Petroleum
H-D PRIMARY LUBRICANT 99887-84 CITGO Petroleum
H-D MOTOR OIL, SAE 10W-40 99816-1040 CITGO Petroleum
H-D MOTOR OIL, SAE 20W-50 99816-2050 CITGO Petroleum
H-D MOTOR OIL, SAE 50 99816-50 CITGO Petroleum
H-D MOTOR OIL, SAE 60 99816-60 CITGO Petroleum
H-D SCREAMIN' EAGLE SYNTHETIC MOTORCYCLE LUBRICANT 99824-03 CITGO Petroleum
H-D SEMI-SYNTHETIC TRANSMISSION LUBRICANT 99892-84 CITGO Petroleum
H-D SPORT-TRANS FLUID 99896-88 HJS of Wisconsin
DOT 5 BRAKE FLUID 99902-77 Dow-Corning
H-D WHEEL BEARING GREASE 99856-92 HJS of Wisconsin
SPECIAL PURPOSE GREASE 99857-97 HJS of Wisconsin
H-D POLY OIL 99860-81 General Polymeric
Product H-D Part#...Manufacturer
HARLEY GLAZE 99701-84 Chemrite Industries
HARLEY GLOSS 94627-98 Chemrite Industries
HARLEY SUN WASH 94659-98 Chemrite Industries
HARLEY SWIRL & SCRATCH REMOVER 94655-98 Chemrite Industries
HARLEY WHEEL & TIRE CLEANER 94658-98 Chemrite Industries
H-D WINDSHIELD WATER REPELLENT 99841-01 Chemrite Industries
H-D SPRAY POLISH 99817-99 Petro-Chemical Products
HARLEY BRIGHT METAL POLISH 99725-89 Rolite Chemical
H-D BLACK CRÈME POLISH 99271-96V Apple Polishes
H-D LEATHER CARE 98263-95V Apple Polishes
H-D LEATHER CLEANER 99274-98V Apple Polishes
H-D SUEDE & FABRIC CLEANER 99272-96V Apple Polishes
H-D LEATHER DRESSING 98261-91V Pecard Chemical
MikeyB
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/11/2008 4:25:45 PM
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HGM
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Well, that sux... Where did you find that info? I'd pay $5 more per qt to avoid contributing to that dirtbag..
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/13/2008 12:10:01 PM
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92Fatty
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Just my .02 ... I hate that dog Chavez also. But the amount of oil that is used by the US doesn't even affect his bottom line. You have seen all of the emails boycott this boycott that. Citgo was unaffected by this boycott. I'm unsure of how many actually boycotted but still it hasn't hurt him. snopes.com has stories relating to boycotting citgo btw. As for oil I ran valvoline vtwin 20/50 after the first couple of change and then cjanged to H-D brand due to having to get filter there just get oil too. I have run it 40k now and the bike still runs smooth. the 5 bucks additional for the 3 quarts combined is not worth the hassle to me of running to another store for oil. Heck gas money is 3.50 gallon now so 25 extra miles getting oil in my camaro and i save a dollar. I have tried Mobil 1 also 15/50 and it did nothing but made my rocker gaskets leak. Again just my .02 Kent
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/21/2008 9:32:39 PM
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89 FXRS
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I told you,The lowest bidder. HD oil is another way of HD getting into your pocket.
I am still smiling on the one thread that stated "
The factor to keep in mind is that HD(regardless of who actually makes it) oil is designed as a coolant, not just a lubricant, for an air cooled engine.. "
I guess that the air that runs past my fins does nothing and the oil cools it all.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/22/2008 7:04:46 AM
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ssls6
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I run Havoline 20w-50. It's a great oil based on all the UOA I've seen.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/22/2008 7:08:03 AM
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HGM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 89 FXRS
I told you,The lowest bidder. HD oil is another way of HD getting into your pocket.
I am still smiling on the one thread that stated "
The factor to keep in mind is that HD(regardless of who actually makes it) oil is designed as a coolant, not just a lubricant, for an air cooled engine.. "
I guess that the air that runs past my fins does nothing and the oil cools it all.
Well, at least we're amusing eachother.. Thats a pretty ignorant statement..
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/22/2008 2:49:33 PM
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Locutions
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Been using different motorcycle oil for over 25 years...yes including HD oil and the like. The main thing to keep in mind...stay with oil made for motorcycles, air cooled or not...
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/22/2008 6:08:17 PM
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pococj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Locutions
Been using different motorcycle oil for over 25 years...yes including HD oil and the like. The main thing to keep in mind...stay with oil made for motorcycles, air cooled or not...
What is different about oils made for motorcycles? Besides marketing hype . . .
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/22/2008 6:21:53 PM
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mp
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Any 10w40 or heavier oil is suitable for air-cooled motorcycles. I use Kendall GT 20w50 myself.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/23/2008 12:33:25 AM
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pepesworld
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I have been running Mobil-1 in an EVO Heritage for ten years, alot of sustained speeds of 80 to 90 mph out on the road as well as stop and go city traffic. Yes you can use Mobil-1, it is an excelent oil. You do not have to use "V-TWIN", just regular Mobil-1.
Difference in bike and car oil: bikes (air cooled) sometimes run hot, also in most bikes, the engine oil also runs in the clutch and the transmission. A Harley engine, being air cooled, does run hot sometimes, but does NOT share engine oil with the clutch or transmission (just like a car), so you need an oil that holds up to heat well, but you do not have to use Motorcycle specific oil. Mobil-1 is fine. For example in a Yamaha or Honda V-TWIN cruiser, there is only one oil tank which lubes the engine, clutch, and transmission. They must use a motorcycle specific oil. A Harley has three different oil tanks- engine, clutch, and transmission. You can put a motorcycle oil in all three, or do like a car, use engine oil, clutch oil, and transmission oil. Harley's "360" works fine too,in all three holes, you just wont be able to get it in Buffalos Butt, Wyoming at 7:30 at night....but you CAN probably find Mobil-1. OH....another thing, the synthetic holds up longer, you can go five or six thousand miles between changes as apposed to changing oil every 2500 miles with "360". That can be every three to five days on a long trip....not convenient.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/23/2008 11:49:30 AM
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Locutions
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I found some useful info on Mobil's website to help understand the diference between car and motorcycle oil.
It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the three Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:
- Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).
What are the overall advantages of Mobil 1 motorcycle oils?
In addition to the overall benefits listed above – specifically, high-temperature stability and low volatility/low oil consumption – Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oils also offer superior anti-corrosion performance compared to conventional motor oil, which is important in many parts of the country where bikes may sit in garages for several months of the year.
Compared to conventional oils, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils provide superior wear and high-temperature protection, and promote engine cleanliness and lower oil consumption.
Once you get past these general advantages, you have to deal with each specific motorcycle oil one at a time to understand the benefits.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/25/2008 4:07:07 PM
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creter
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I work in the oilpatch. I aint never seen a harley logo on a oil rig. I did see an old shovelhead running a compressor on a rig once though.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/25/2008 8:00:57 PM
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rleather
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After reading this thread I decided to do some research...what I found is absolutely profound... I will summarize but read the report and draw your own conclusion. In summary:
Motorcycle oil superiority to car oil? - a myth
Synthethic better than conventional oil? - a fact
Best of the synthetic oils? - Mobile1
Just the facts jack (and Jill) :)
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/27/2008 12:51:58 PM
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Kramer Krazy
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I used HD oil for the first 30k miles that I put on my bike.....then I switched to Havoline oil for the next 40k miles....now, I'm running the cheapest dino oil I can find (Walmart, Advance Auto, etc...). For tranny oil, I use regular 85-120 wt cheapie stuff, and for primary fluid, I am now using the cheapest Type F automatic tranny fluid I can find......over 98k miles on the virgin bottom end of the engine, over 98k miles on the virgin 4-speed tranny, and my original clutch plates were finally changed out over a month ago with 97k miles on them......run whatever you want.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/27/2008 4:53:34 PM
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pococj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Locutions
I found some useful info on Mobil's website to help understand the diference between car and motorcycle oil.
It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the three Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:
- Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).
(Snip the rest)
What Mobil conveniently left out: 15w-50 and 20w-50 oils do not have to meet the specs for reduced ZDDP. For Mobil 1 15w-50 car and 20w-50 motorcycle oil, if you look at the levels of Zinc and Phosphorus you'll find they are nearly identical. The 15w-50 car oil has significantly more Calcium, but it has significantly less Magnesium. The 15w-50 has labout 90 ppm of Molybdenum, while the 20w-50 has none. I can speak from experience that 90 ppm of Molybdenum will have zero effect on the typical HD clutch.
Bottom line? There simply isn't enough difference in the additive packages to justify the doubling of cost.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/29/2008 5:22:32 PM
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creter
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Synthethic or fossil. KY or spit. The debate has been going on as long as war in the middle east. Kramer Krazy nailed it. If it don't hand grenade its good.
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RE: is harley oil a must? - 3/29/2008 7:45:26 PM
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89 FXRS
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HGM
Well, thats my question.. Cost.... Even if HD oil was $5 more per quart(its not), you would be talking $15 per oil change.. That would be a significant "oil change" cost savings, but again, I really dont know what the difference actually is.. I forget, but I'm pretty sure I didnt pay even $5 per qt on my last oil change.. Cant say, I've broken it down to the penney. I havent had this bike long enough to change the oil but once and my last one was 5yrs ago.. I'm not trying to be smart, I'm asking a legitimate question, it doesnt make sense to me..
89 FXRS, sorry, I will never consider your brand of oil. I dissagree with the marketing tactics and do not believe in their claims.. No,HD is not in the oil biz, but they do have standards that thier oil must meet for their engines. Can you buy better oils, certainly. Can you buy worse, absoloutly.. Truth of the matter, in general, oil quality has increased so dramaticly over the past 30yrs that you are getting more than adiquate protection from the cheap stuff and will likely never notice a difference between your favorite and the cheapest bulk you can find... The factor to keep in mind is that HD(regardless of who actually makes it) oil is designed as a coolant, not just a lubricant, for an air cooled engine.. I feel better spending the extra couple of bucks on my beloved toy in the form of maintenance using an oil, I know fits the requirements for my engine, its endorsed by the manufacturer..
I am sorry if my post offended you, but telling us that HD designed their oil as a coolant over other oils is a little out there. On the other hand calling me ignorant in another post is also a little out there too.
Some people know what they are talking about, and others think they know what they are talking about. HD designed their oil to cool over other oils?  HD would have to first make their own oil!
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