Shovelhead front end update
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Shovelhead front end update - 3/28/2008 9:49:14 PM
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cj_slowdown
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Shovelhead front end update Well as few words before, instead of buying a new low rider last year I decided to up-date my current low rider of 27 years 1981, some buy bikes like some buy cars every few years, I am not that kind of rider, lots of money went into the bike over those years, in my mind no-way was I starting over. I started a thread here called "S&S engines" on 12/16/2006 "I was wondering anybody here have or know someone with a complete shovel from S&S ? " Never heard anything so I’ll turn the thread into a lessons learned sort of thing, like a step by step on what to expect doing that kind of job, the little extra items etc. plus the money needed, this is what I was looking for, so this thread is a continuation of that thread, but I gave it a new title, I will just stick to the front end update, doing this in parts of triple tree, tubes, sliders or glides, headlight, brakes and control switches, not necessarily in that order. It all started out last year, it was always in the back of my head when I went with a S&S Shovelhead 93 ci, 82 rated hp low compression engine, backed up with a Baker 4 into 6 speed OD tranny, yea it’s not any rocket, but maybe a slow early jet : - ) but I did gain a little over 30 extra hp I didn’t have, I thought about it before hand and while everything went together last year, but it really come home when the 1000 mile break-in was done, how in the hell, am I going to stop this thing ! I changed that awful, bad, totally useless rear brake approx 10 years ago with a PM 4 piston, yeah very nice, goes through pads in 5 or 6,000 miles, hay you buy a racing brake and what do you expect to get 10,000 ? I think it is making up for the lousy twin stock brake set up in the front. So I had to two options, buy two new 4 piston calibers at up to $400 a piece or turn it into a new modern 4 piston single caliber and rotor, which means two new lower sliders or glides, now here comes my dilemma do I pay to have my original sliders turn out, cleaned up and ready for chrome ? or buy new chrome or take off sliders ? shovel owners out there know at least of the’80 to ’84 slides (earlier also) that had that rectangle or ridge plate (for the yellow reflector) sticking out, that’s what I mean by turned down or machined out on a lathe then buffed out all the areas hd missed we all know the shlt job done back in the early years, I believe to have that done, the lowers without chrome was approx around $75 to a $100 each, pay this out on 27 year old stock slides? Yes I could do the buffing but I don’t own a lathe, lets look around for newer ones. And newer ones I found on e-Bay from a hd dealer, a set of take offs, a guy comes into a dealer wants chrome lowers from hd, dealer takes off his lacquer coated aluminum, puts on the chrome ones, now at this time the dealer can be smart and sell these cheap, to just get them out of the shop or sell them high and will sit there maybe for years, who will buy stock alum glides ? the dealer was smart a pair for $19.95, most likely just over alum re-cycle rate : - ) So here I sit with perfect looking stock alum lacquer 41mm slides off either 00-05 FXDWG, 00-06 FXST, FXSTB Showa retail for $360.00 a pair,
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 3:47:05 AM
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pococj
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Heh, heh, heh - what's this "save money" of which you speak? 
I just scored a set of 41 mm custom triple trees off eBay for $100. Brandy-new, too. As far as the sliders "almost" looking good enough w/o chrome, why not paint them the same color as your tanks/fenders?
Almost forgot - You could score some Nissin or Tokico calipers off a YamaHonKawSuz. Fab Kevin http://www.fabkevin.com/ makes great looking adapters that would mount them on your original or new sliders. He has a kit with a Tokico 4 piston caliper, mounting bracket, and hardware for less than $220 shipping included.
< Message edited by pococj -- 3/29/2008 3:56:32 AM >
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 6:58:45 AM
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cj_slowdown
Posts: 1234
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pococj
Heh, heh, heh - what's this "save money" of which you speak?
I just scored a set of 41 mm custom triple trees off eBay for $100. Brandy-new, too. As far as the sliders "almost" looking good enough w/o chrome, why not paint them the same color as your tanks/fenders?
Almost forgot - You could score some Nissin or Tokico calipers off a YamaHonKawSuz. Fab Kevin http://www.fabkevin.com/ makes great looking adapters that would mount them on your original or new sliders. He has a kit with a Tokico 4 piston caliper, mounting bracket, and hardware for less than $220 shipping included.
“pococj”
“Heh, heh, heh - what's this "save money" of which you speak? “
I knew that would come home to people who knew : - )))))
“I just scored a set of 41 mm custom triple trees off eBay for $100. Brandy-new, too. As far as the sliders "almost" looking good enough w/o chrome, why not paint them the same color as your tanks/fenders? “
Nice buy !!! made here ? that is the most important thing in this day of lead painted toys, and exploding car tires, I really would just rather ride down the road, thinking about nothing but the road and not, will this tree brake in half ? : - ))) (not to say the one you got will) nothing on or in my bike is made in china, taiwan is the closest and since hd has a long history with that country in making m/c parts and it’s not “commie land” well that is my point, paint that was an option no doubt, but always wanted a nice clean chrome front end, if I did get it painted by the guy who originally did my tanks, I don’t know if I could afford it today, I got it done approx 12 years ago, before Jesse James and OCC, he is really out of sight now, I know this first hand approx 3 years ago I damaged my front fender something heavy fell on it, anyway I took him a new fender, all he had to do was painted it black, black and add the gold leaf flames and clear it, just like the old one (which I brought as a guide) it cost as much to paint that fender as the whole job did 9 to 10 years before, and not counting how gold is up to 1,000 today ! chrome would be much cheaper, trust me : - )
“Almost forgot - You could score some Nissin or Tokico calipers off a YamaHonKawSuz. Fab Kevin http://www.fabkevin.com/ makes great looking adapters that would mount them on your original or new sliders. He has a kit with a Tokico 4 piston caliper, mounting bracket, and hardware for less than $220 shipping included.”
Again nice price, are they good performers ? I was going to cut down the price by going to GMA units I personally have no problem at all running one brand in the rear and a different one in the front, but the more I heard about GMAs (some on this forum) the price difference between them and PM wasn’t so much aft
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 8:13:11 AM
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panz4ever
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cj, I know squat about new bikes and a little about older ones but....41mm is the same size used on 49 and 65. Can't you use early OEM trees and avoid Tawain Ted?
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 10:06:29 AM
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cj_slowdown
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quote:
ORIGINAL: panz4ever
cj, I know squat about new bikes and a little about older ones but....41mm is the same size used on 49 and 65. Can't you use early OEM trees and avoid Tawain Ted?
“panz4ever”
“cj, I know squat about new bikes and a little about older ones but....41mm is the same size used on 49 and 65. Can't you use early OEM trees and avoid Tawain Ted? “
We know about the same on new ones “download maps” to change A/C and pipes ? WTH is that about ? oh, yeah, EPA, anyway, I have no idea if it’s the same size ?
Make no mistake panz I am no real fan of imported parts I like most would rather have USA made or at least Canada made, but that is not going to happen, today it’s more likely to get china made, that with the news of the crap coming out that commie country, this is what it has come down too, so I’ll settle on taiwan made, when hd has been importing that stuff for decades, but there like anywhere else, there is good stuff and crap made and I don’t buy taiwan teds v-twin crap for the same reason I don’t buy commie crap, in china ! and remember we are talking about the glides not the triple tree, mine was made in california, the hard chrome forks by Franks, I am not anal about having everything made in the USA, but there is a line.
take care,
cj
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Triple Tree and forks - 3/29/2008 4:30:18 PM
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cj_slowdown
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Triple Tree and forks
Before I go on I got to tell you this front end work is be done at a dealer, of course not a hd dealer, they don’t know about shovelheads any longer : - ) no an independent dealer I been using for parts and some service since I owned a triumph way back, since I am not going to save any real big money on parts, list price is list price and a dealer can fix or smooth over mistakes, damage parts better than a guy ordering over the net or phone, they can come in handy, it’s only the labor, taking off the front end, re-doing the head bearings, re-building the lowers, these guys do this almost everyday and have the specialty tools, not to leave out, they actually work in the heat !!! meaning no heated garage for me this winter.
Ok, looks like I need a triple tree frank, ok, wide glide ? no, never did like the look of it, don’t take it so freakin personal frank I know you have one, it’s me ok ? I just look and think big flex !, well john what the hell are you looking for ? you have 41mm tubes, yeah I know, I could get a new ’06 up hd low rider front end : - ) they look good in 41mm and there not the sporty front ends, you don’t have that kind of money : - ) don’t you know that !!
Ok, frank I was thinking about a mid-glide, ok lets see who makes them as he flips out the Drag Specialties hugh catalog, I said, Custom Cycle Engineering out of california has been making them since forever, I use to dream about their front ends back in the early ‘80’s, yeah nice set up here it is,… frank just go with them direct, because I don’t see a model that will fit mine in DS cat, also tell them what year frame I have, so they can add the piece of metal under the tree that will line up with my frame and just like stock I can use a pad lock for the front end, no bull ?, no bull nice feature, I will bet they still have it.
Frank, no bs, this is very important, I want this front end to look as when stock, I mean the angle the height, length of forks, remember this is a low rider frame the rake is not like a standard FX glide, it's pushed out, please don’t order me forks for a FX, I need longer ones, I also want black chrome finish on the fork tubes just like the factory, not show chrome as on after market front ends, or like that big dog over there…. as you know fork seals will last way longer with black chrome finish.
One last thing load them Frank forks up with Progressive front springs and guts, a little more money way better ride ! Franks Forks ended up cutting and making me up a custom set, none in stock. I wonder how many low riders out there may have fx shorter tubes in them ?
Damn almost forgot, when talking with C.C.E. tell them I want a truss, for that mid glide, john you mean a brace, no frank I mean a truss, they are called braces ! frank it’s your business, you been in it for almost 30 years, so I am not going to piss all over your leg and say it’s a truss again, until you go on to their web site or in their cat
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 4:35:59 PM
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pococj
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From: Texas! Ya mean there''s someplace else?
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cj_slowdown
“pococj”
“Heh, heh, heh - what's this "save money" of which you speak? “
I knew that would come home to people who knew : - )))))
(Snip)
“Almost forgot - You could score some Nissin or Tokico calipers off a YamaHonKawSuz. Fab Kevin http://www.fabkevin.com/ makes great looking adapters that would mount them on your original or new sliders. He has a kit with a Tokico 4 piston caliper, mounting bracket, and hardware for less than $220 shipping included.”
Again nice price, are they good performers ? I was going to cut down the price by going to GMA units I personally have no problem at all running one brand in the rear and a different one in the front, but the more I heard about GMAs (some on this forum) the price difference between them and PM wasn’t so much after all, as for finish I went with PM flat alum finish on the rear to match my Sturgis solid wheel in the back, worked out, so going with this chrome front end, I had to go with chrome caliber but at least I wasn’t going to be buying TWO units !!!! see the money I am saving !!!!! : - ))))))
Thanks for the link I will keep it on file never know when you need a good one !
ride safe,
cj
The Nissin & Tociko calipers are what the Japanese bikes use. Think of the local kid-on-a-crotchy doin' a stoppie - they are first rate calipers. Of course, getting a set of chromed ones would add significantly to the cost. But then, chrome is just something that has to be cleaned, polished, and otherwise have valuable riding time wasted on, so I tries to avoid it!
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Chrome sucks.
Patch holders are people, too!
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 4:53:03 PM
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cj_slowdown
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“pococj”
“The Nissin & Tociko calipers are what the Japanese bikes use. Think of the local kid-on-a-crotchy doin' a stoppie - they are first rate calipers. Of course, getting a set of chromed ones would add significantly to the cost. But then, chrome is just something that has to be cleaned, polished, and otherwise have valuable riding time wasted on, so I tries to avoid it! ”
pococj you on chrome ?? : - ))) I know your stand on chrome : - )) you would never have to wait for me to go for a ride, I won’t be polishing my chrome !
take care !
cj
ps: honestly pococj, tell me straight, no bs, I can take it, do you think, I have an accent ????
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 5:17:51 PM
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pococj
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From: Texas! Ya mean there''s someplace else?
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cj_slowdown
(Snip)
cj
ps: honestly pococj, tell me straight, no bs, I can take it, do you think, I have an accent ????
Well, you are from Penn-slow-mania!
_____________________________
Chrome sucks.
Patch holders are people, too!
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/29/2008 9:11:47 PM
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Rodney
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From: Central Oregon
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nice looking set of triples and tweak bar! {thats what we've always called them}.
I've ran one on my wide glide from the day I went with 8 over tubes.
I also feel that my big stock fender give some more stability to the front end.
_____________________________
1968 FLH owned for 30 years
2002 FXSTDI
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/30/2008 7:22:48 AM
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cj_slowdown
Posts: 1234
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pococj
quote:
ORIGINAL: cj_slowdown
(Snip)
cj
ps: honestly pococj, tell me straight, no bs, I can take it, do you think, I have an accent ????
Well, you are from Penn-slow-mania!
"cj ps: honestly pococj, tell me straight, no bs, I can take it, do you think, I have an accent ????" "Well, you are from Penn-slow-mania!" Not only that, but I am only 18 miles west or so (as the crow flies) from center city Philly ! I wish it could be a little more west, say 500 or a 1,000 miles : - ) Show huh ??? we got to ride together some day : - ))) Thanks for being honest !!! and I’ll work on that slow thing : - ))))) take care, cj
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/30/2008 7:27:35 AM
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cj_slowdown
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rodney
nice looking set of triples and tweak bar! {thats what we've always called them}.
I've ran one on my wide glide from the day I went with 8 over tubes.
I also feel that my big stock fender give some more stability to the front end.
Rodney" "nice looking set of triples and tweak bar! {thats what we've always called them}. " Thanks, and your right tweak bar, I got to lay that on frank, him and his braces !! I tell him a brace is something you hold something up with, "like I put a brace against my lean-too wall" : - )))) a truss is something you lock-together !!!! as in roof to side walls.
"I've ran one on my wide glide from the day I went with 8 over tubes. " 8 over !!!!!!!!!!!!! damn, how long did you have to call ahead for a reservation to make left or right turns ?? : - )))))) that was always my main gripe with extended front ends, but again that’s me, you have to be a better rider, than me, I take turns for granted you on the other hand, got to know them, personal !!
"I also feel that my big stock fender give some more stability to the front end." Your shilling me ? your counting on a fender to give you extra stability ? man you live on the edge !!! : - ) take care, cj
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/30/2008 8:02:21 AM
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Rodney
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From: Central Oregon
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With the work Larry and I did to the frame back in the 80's I don't noticed a problem with handling and once the bike is moving its a pleasure to ride. One other bonus adding to to the frame was clearance not only to the front head but I have no problem removing the rear with the lengthened seat post. When the bike was to stock specs I was all the time dragging bottom and hitting my front pipe on something more so when packing and loaded down for a run. {something you may experience now running the front pipe from a generator engine} I also opt to run the pipes which incorporate the "S" pipe which fits between the engine and frame, this gets the pipe tucked away from the ground.
One of the biggest things I notice guys doing to themselves are to narrow handle bars taking away valuable leverage to steer the bike at slow speeds. {I did this to myself thinking the bars looked good but taking away from safety dumm plan}.
Front fender ya maybe not much help but like building an airplane its not one part that makes it strong is several fastened together in a logical and designed way.
I've alway dreamed of making a stock fender with a build in tweak bar utilizing the fender mounts as the support and having it made of high strength steel fitting and hiding under the stock fender. But it was easier to buy the 20 dollar one and simply bolt it on just above the final travel of the legs. I do think tweak bars are ugly and clutter up a front end but then again safety first.
_____________________________
1968 FLH owned for 30 years
2002 FXSTDI
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/30/2008 11:36:49 AM
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cj_slowdown
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“Rodney”
“With the work Larry and I did to the frame back in the 80's I don't noticed a problem with handling and once the bike is moving its a pleasure to ride. One other bonus adding to to the frame was clearance not only to the front head but I have no problem removing the rear with the lengthened seat post. When the bike was to stock specs I was all the time dragging bottom and hitting my front pipe on something more so when packing and loaded down for a run. {something you may experience now running the front pipe from a generator engine}”
I use to drag my favor front exhaust pipe I ran F.U.B.A.R. exhaust triple wall over 2.25” OD with the inter pipe 1.5, heat shields who needed heat shields with triple wall pipes !!! : - ) I had them from 1981 till last year, no-way were they going to fit on this new S&S engine, I must have over the years straighten out the slash-cuts, had them re-chromed at least four times, I love them pipes ! I am still pissed off I can’t run them ! I’ll attach a photo before the new engine and tranny in ’06, hay one more thing I have an alternator not a generator motor, no biggie just keeping it straight.
“ I also opt to run the pipes which incorporate the "S" pipe which fits between the engine and frame, this gets the pipe tucked away from the ground. One of the biggest things I notice guys doing to themselves are to narrow handle bars taking away valuable leverage to steer the bike at slow speeds. {I did this to myself thinking the bars looked good but taking away from safety dumm plan}.”
I hear you on the narrow handlebars ! and talking about “taking away valuable leverage to steer the bike at slow speeds” what about those ape hangers !!!!! I could never, ever see what the big deal about them was !!!! except maybe the blood pools in ones elbows : - ))) forget counter steering on both types !!
“ Front fender ya maybe not much help but like building an airplane its not one part that makes it strong is several fastened together in a logical and designed way. I've alway dreamed of making a stock fender with a build in tweak bar utilizing the fender mounts as the support and having it made of high strength steel fitting and hiding under the stock fender. But it was easier to buy the 20 dollar one and simply bolt it on just above the final travel of the legs. I do think tweak bars a ugly and clutter up a front end but then again safety first.”
I am with you on the “several fastened together” I get that, but I also get the front ends are only screwed in at the top of the tree and that fender mount support, meaning “holding the fender in place” yes it brings in some support so the front tubes doesn’t do a dance hall split : - ) but no way would I ever ride a WG, 8” over without a truss/brace or tweak bar, they are ugly, but that IMO its true support, in fact I am a little upset with C.C.E. they use to make their truss bars in one piece design, I guess they heard to much bitching about “Damn, I got to take my slides off to
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/30/2008 1:15:52 PM
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Rodney
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From: Central Oregon
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I couldn't run ape hangers, my arms would fall asleep and hands turn ice cold in a miles riding.
I'm for comfort not looks.
one thing I'm sure has been ask a hundred time:
Why didn't S&S build 2 bolt exhaust flanges when making their heads and either build pipes or sub the job to Paugho or some one?
of course I know your Shovels an Alt engine I was only commenting on the pipes you were forced to run 
good luck on the front end CJ
_____________________________
1968 FLH owned for 30 years
2002 FXSTDI
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 3/30/2008 2:56:26 PM
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cj_slowdown
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“Rodney”
“I couldn't run ape hangers, my arms would fall asleep and hands turn ice cold in a miles riding.
I'm for comfort not looks”
smart !!!! same here in fact anyone could just look at my ride through the years and see that, no steel chrome hiway pegs / forward controls no chrome handlebar grips, tiny windscreen etc.
“one thing I'm sure has been ask a hundred time:
Why didn't S&S build 2 bolt exhaust flanges when making their heads and either build pipes or sub the job to Paugho or some one? “
I am sure it would not make everybody happy, I agree it would be the right way to do it, but odds have it a lot of piss off pipe makers would want a piece of their a$$ maybe left with a whole lot of pipe models, I would like to believe that when one has no choice of getting a new or re-condition head, lots I believe go to S&S, still cuts off a fair amount of pipe makers, who really knows, it is just my opinion.
“of course I know your Shovels an Alt engine I was only commenting on the pipes you were forced to run”
I should have took it that way, sorry ! like I said they were the only second pair of pipes I ever brought for my ride since new !! : - )))
“good luck on the front end CJ”
thanks Rodney, just some things to wait for of course, the sliders came with nothing and dealers don’t stock those items since they don’t go bad !!! so my dealer had to order them from a hd dealer, he told me Saturday that in a few days should be in and hopefully by the end of this week the headlight will come in, then the wiring and the new handlebar controls.
cj
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 4/5/2008 3:27:39 PM
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Rodney
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From: Central Oregon
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Thats going to look as good as function Great CJ
Very Nice!!
_____________________________
1968 FLH owned for 30 years
2002 FXSTDI
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 4/6/2008 3:04:39 AM
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cj_slowdown
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rodney
Thats going to look as good as function Great CJ
Very Nice!!
Rodney,
Thanks all my riding years, it was always about function ! now maybe some looks to boot : - )
hay, notice the little things, I can't help it, it's that functional thing, see in the lower pic, how C.C.E. added that piece of steel below the neck, tell them the year of the frame you have and they add that piece so one can use the front end pad lock, not that the pad lock, is the best thing, but for the one time it's not a Pro, it can help, better than nothing up there : - )
ride safe,
cj
sorry about these cell phone pics this one is even wrost it's out of focuse !! : - ))
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 4/12/2008 9:39:50 AM
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cj_slowdown
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The freakin headlight fiasco !
Ok, here’s how it goes, am at the dealer, ok frank I need a headlight, better get a big one cj, lots of wiring goes in it, yeah I know a lot of crap is loaded in my stock unit, along with that electronic flasher for the LED’s ok, I’ll pick one out, be back in a few days.
After in catalogs on line, one thing I am sticking with, and that’s my 5 ¾” headlight, ok easy, but the only unit I kept going back too see was damn, the one make which years back I first saw (I think in JP cat) I said, who in the hell would ever pay 300 bucks for a headlight housing !!!! ??? come-on 300 bucks ! that’s nuts !!!
Yeah, it’s the Headwinds line, sure they are billet aluminum housings not press out steel, but damn the price ! no I am not spending 300 bucks, oh, no I am spending 430 bucks !!!! I am pretty solid in my views and opinions but flexible enough to change when shown why something maybe be better ! how’s that ? doesn’t that sound like a cop-out now, huh ? : - )
Well the next headlight housing that came in second was going for 250, so the old justifying technique started, well looks like I am going to spend at least 250…… some know what I am talking about : - )
Ok, this light serves two purposes one it’s the one I really like, second it’s length is 7 ¾” long, and 6” in Dia, the model is 1-5900SCCA and name is CONCOURS MARIAH ROCKET HEADLIGHT ASSEMBLY SLASH CUT VISOR, SMOOTH for $432 in chrome ! (all rocket style line are 7 ¾” long) shouldn’t have any problems with the stock wiring !
http://www.headwinds.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=headwinds01&Product_Code=1-5900SCCA&Category_Code=01010102
Think that would fit the wiring frank ? hell yeah ! nice light ! wow how much ??? ok, ok, did you guys figure out the dia hole you need ? because they only come with a 3/8” dia and in my stock unit, I see just one cable harness that I measured at ½” Dia ? and that’s not counting I think 2 or 3 more blocks going into the back of that stock light ? ok, we will measure it all up and come up with one dia, ok frank, I already talk to Headwinds they can dill a hole up to 1” dia so you have 3/8” up 1” dia, but after they drill, they still must send it out for chrome, we might be talking about 2 weeks lead time, frank !
Ok, s
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 5/2/2008 1:01:13 PM
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cj_slowdown
Posts: 1234
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
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Turn Signals
If anyone is reading this thread, I need some advise, I am attaching two pics of the front end, it’s almost finished the new bars are on, almost all the wiring is finished.
I had them put on new front turn signals, the deuce model, my original ’84 signals looked so freakin large I wanted smaller ones not the real tiny size, I want to be seen, so the question is :
Where would you mount them at he top of the tree or at mid point of the tree ?
Remember looking at there placement they are a little loose not really lined up, but you can get the idea how they lay, I am a little in favor of the high mount, that is where my original ones were and I think it doesn’t break-up the lines of the front end.
But most of the guys at the shop state they like the middle position ? that is were most are now on new harleys ? I guess they are use to that way ?
Anyway and top or mid ?
ps: the handle bars are out, seems like there is no bracket to fit chubby bars, so it’s out mounting them on.
Sorry for the quality of the pic (cell phone camera)
thanks for any input !
cj
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RE: Shovelhead front end update - 5/2/2008 1:25:43 PM
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Rodney
Posts: 689
Joined: 5/23/2007
From: Central Oregon
Status: offline
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