Repost for Thorn - HAMMER
Date: Mon Mar 24, 2008 21:19 GMT
This is a repost for Thorn about his brother HAMMER. If you have an 08 H.D. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get it checked out.



My Brother HAMMER was killed today in a bike accident -- He was the President and Chapter Holder for Boozerfighters Chapter 39 in Granburys, Texas. He is also the Owner of Jackhammer Tattoo. his wife Sindi is in serious condition.
Seems that the new electronic throttle on the 08 H.D.'s has a problem they accelerate on their own and you can't shut them down. he had just got his bike back from H.D. for this problem and they told him it was fixed. this time he was in a curve and couldn't pull out of it , ran off the road and threw Sindi off ,then the bike flipped over on him and broke his neck .

please if you have one of these bikes or you know someone that does , get it checked


Checked the Boozefighters site and it seems to be true.

RIP.

wow if anyone else has heard of this please post a thread thanks for the heads up sorr for there family

Wow. Gave me chills reading about something like that happening. It does not apply for me, but I would also like to know if anyone else has expereience with the new fly by wire in this respect.

Very sorry for their family's loss.

RIP

I just read that it was true on another site in Canada. http://boozefighters.ca/My condolences to the family and the chapter for their loss.

My condolences to the involved parties.

I have a question though. Couldn't a guy just pull in the clutch?

This is why I stick to old school carbs and cables. Electrical demons are worthy foes.

ORIGINAL: The Baron

My condolences to the involved parties.

I have a question though. Couldn't a guy just pull in the clutch?

This is why I stick to old school carbs and cables. Electrical demons are worthy foes.


I thought the very same thing. Pull in the clutch ? hard to say with out being there.

For sure, without knowing the situation. Riding MX has given me a habit of always riding with a finger on the front brake and two on the clutch, always, just in case.

Man, that's bad! RIP
Ditto on the Clutch and Kill switch, but sometimes something crazy like this will make you panic for a second and that is a second too long.

HOLY CHIT!...so sorry for the lose...not to make light of it but i bet the dealer said it was "normal"...i'd be talking to lawyers real quick

You don't get to be Pres of a club without knowing how to ride a motorcycle. Strange ****.

ORIGINAL: The Baron

My condolences to the involved parties.

This is why I stick to old school carbs and cables. Electrical demons are worthy foes.


+1

When I first heard about the TBW it was not a good feeling.

ORIGINAL: The Baron

For sure, without knowing the situation. Riding MX has given me a habit of always riding with a finger on the front brake and two on the clutch, always, just in case.




Same with me on the fingers. old habits die hard and sometimes thats a good thing.

And they knew it was the TBW how?

ORIGINAL: rocknrod

And they knew it was the TBW how?



Good question. I would assume that he was riding with someone else that seen it? and the fact that it had been in the shop for this earlier.

Even a carbcan lock open on you. I've had it happen to me in heavy traffic on my 79. A piece of throttle cable frayed and locked the slide 1/3 open. I pulled in the clutch, let it out, pulled it in, etc. and rode it to a side street and hit the kill button when I could coast.

I've wondered about fly by wire on a bike. Think I trust my current cable setup on an S&S and on the Buel throtle body more.

That's really sad. Prayers to the family.

I had my throttle stick and accelerate right after I had my new handlebars put on. Turned out to be that the throttle housing was either too close or too far on the handlebar and not fitting quite right in the handlebar holes. They moved it, and it's been fine for 2500 miles. Still, makes me wonder....

Profinish posted about this problem on the 29th. It's happened before. Maybe the MOCO will do something about it not that some poor bast*rd lost his life because of it.

ORIGINAL: Dr.Hess

Even a carbcan lock open on you. I've had it happen to me in heavy traffic on my 79. A piece of throttle cable frayed and locked the slide 1/3 open. I pulled in the clutch, let it out, pulled it in, etc. and rode it to a side street and hit the kill button when I could coast.

I've wondered about fly by wire on a bike. Think I trust my current cable setup on an S&S and on the Buel throtle body more.


I too have had a throttle stick on me. Used the clutch until I could kill the bike.
Heck I even had the throttle boss opening up the throttle too much and had to use the clutch, until I realized what the matter was. Cold day - too many clothes etc.
So I really do question this line of thinking.
I mean it's what "some" people love to hear. Like when electricity came out = it killed people...
TBW has been around a long time if anyone really cares to investigate. Not new technology. So when I hear "new fangled thing" I have to laugh.

At any rate it's a shame another brother died on his bike whatever the reason.

Sorry to hear about his death [&o]I hope Sindi makes a full recovery! I never could figure out why Harley would want to go to the expense and trouble to replace the throttle cables anyway, I've never trusted them even on cars, my wifes Hemi ram has it and I hate it! The computer can override any input you give the throttle, burn outs are a thing of the past, shame too, that hemi feels like it would romp if the computer would let it [:@]

That's the main reason I choose a used 05' and stayed away from that. Looked like an accident waiting to happen. All it does is give the bike that clean wireless look, no advantages, just another thing to go wrong.... I am just waiting for the passenger seat frame to break and kill someone on that damn Rocker C. Stupid MOCO needs to take a step back and think about this!

and I complained about the 5th gear whine... Geez, sounds like the 08's have a much bigger problem... My condolences to the family and I hope sindi makes a full and fast recovery..."D"

Very sorry to hear of this and all my best for the friends and family.

I am, however, skeptical of the cause being the ETC. There are many, yes many, redundancies to override the ETC in such an event both electrical and mechanical(return springs ). Not saying it didn't happen, but a lot would have to fail to have the ETC lock the throttle open. H-D wouldn't be allowed to put a system on the road that didn't have those many overrides

I agree that it's a tragic loss. RIP.

But blaming it on the TBW is extremely suspect.

fbw or not cabels and carbs stick as well

This thread should be put in the General section as not everyone comes to the touring part.
Ron

My condolences to those involved and their families.

I, too, am skeptical that it was the electonic throttle that caused this accident. I'd like to see the proof when they find out.

ORIGINAL: rbabos

This thread should be put in the General section as not everyone comes to the touring part.
Ron
I think it only applies to touring bikes.....Prayers to the family

JD

ORIGINAL: Jim Dawson

My condolences to those involved and their families.

I, too, am skeptical that it was the electonic throttle that caused this accident. I'd like to see the proof when they find out.



I too am skeptical ?I'm a see it to believe it kinda guy. Just reporting whatI read.

My condolences my GOD bless his sole and wath over his family.

I looked at 08's RC'sbefore purchasing my 07RC. I told my wife it the showroom that I wasn't willing to trust my life to some new technology that Harley had dreamed up.

I had a friendgo into a corner around 35mph andunder contro. He lost it and died. The passenger lived. She said the last thing she remembersis he said "oh no".
No drinking no drugs. We never could figure out what had happened. To this daywe don't knowwhat went wrong.
I'm sorry for this latest loss. TBW maybe. I don't know sometimes things just happen that we can't explain.

Throttle cables should be an option.....prayers to Hammer and family.

ORIGINAL: jag1886

I looked at 08's RC'sbefore purchasing my 07RC. I told my wife it the showroom that I wasn't willing to trust my life to some new technology that Harley had dreamed up.


Thats just it, it's not new It'sbeen around a long time. maybe not in this application but in many others.

So sorry for your loss. Our prayers and thoughts are with you.

Good God, People believe anything. Everything and every product could be linked to a death but that does not mean if you own that product you will die. People die everyday of something. i find it hard to believe that TBW will be causeing multiple deaths or was the cause of that bull@#$% story death. If you believe everything you read you better build a bomb shelter under your house and live there and never come out. Then again, what would you build it with. Cement is responsible for many deaths. Wood too. Hammers,nails,electricity,water. The end is near. Do yourself a favor and pull the trigger.

Amen BrotherORIGINAL: captjon37

Good God, People believe anything. Everything and every product could be linked to a death but that does not mean if you own that product you will die. People die everyday of something. i find it hard to believe that TBW will be causeing multiple deaths or was the cause of that bull@#$% story death. If you believe everything you read you better build a bomb shelter under your house and live there and never come out. Then again, what would you build it with. Cement is responsible for many deaths. Wood too. Hammers,nails,electricity,water. The end is near. Do yourself a favor and pull the trigger.

ORIGINAL: captjon37

Good God, People believe anything. Everything and every product could be linked to a death but that does not mean if you own that product you will die. People die everyday of something. i find it hard to believe that TBW will be causeing multiple deaths or was the cause of that bull@#$% story death. If you believe everything you read you better build a bomb shelter under your house and live there and never come out. Then again, what would you build it with. Cement is responsible for many deaths. Wood too. Hammers,nails,electricity,water. The end is near. Do yourself a favor and pull the trigger.


Now ain't you just a fckin ray of sunshine. Relax man you'll live longer.

ORIGINAL: captjon37

Good God, People believe anything. Everything and every product could be linked to a death but that does not mean if you own that product you will die. People die everyday of something. i find it hard to believe that TBW will be causeing multiple deaths or was the cause of that bull@#$% story death. If you believe everything you read you better build a bomb shelter under your house and live there and never come out. Then again, what would you build it with. Cement is responsible for many deaths. Wood too. Hammers,nails,electricity,water. The end is near. Do yourself a favor and pull the trigger.

Thank you for saying what I wanted to, but couldn't find the right words. I feel very sorry for this and any biker that goes down in an accident, but to declare all 08 FBW bikes a death waiting to happen is rediculous.

ORIGINAL: Windup08

Thank you for saying what I wanted to, but couldn't find the right words. I feel very sorry for this and any biker that goes down in an accident, but to declare all 08 FBW bikes a death waiting to happen is ridiculous.



Equally ridiculous is believing that the electronic throttle is not only new,but a Harley innovation.

I'm very sorry for the family's loss, and the road ahead for the wife.Ripper, thank you for the post. I am a new riderwith approx. 650on an 08 XL1200N and had my throttle stick yesterday in first. I am not sure if my set up is the same, but I will have it looked at. Yesterday I re-checked everything I was doing and there was nothing that should have been causing this. I just thought hum, must be cold or something--idle sticking. It seemed fine later in the day. I hadn't heard of this problem with any HD model before.

And hey, captjohn37, WTF? A head's up is an appropriate thing, and he's got a good reason to give us one. I did not read a dark omen in this, just concern. There is too much on this site that tries to blow off precautions becausesomefolks don't want to hear it. Someof us are grateful. Lighten up.

ORIGINAL: The Baron

For sure, without knowing the situation. Riding MX has given me a habit of always riding with a finger on the front brake and two on the clutch, always, just in case.




Ha...that's awesome. I thought I was the only one that did that. I also catch myself shifting my weight to the outside floorboard going into turns.

There will be more sad tales to follow....you wait n see....TBW (as designed by HD) will kill/injure many of us yet.....mark my words.

ORIGINAL: captjon37

Good God, People believe anything. Everything and every product could be linked to a death but that does not mean if you own that product you will die. People die everyday of something. i find it hard to believe that TBW will be causeing multiple deaths or was the cause of that bull@#$% story death. If you believe everything you read you better build a bomb shelter under your house and live there and never come out. Then again, what would you build it with. Cement is responsible for many deaths. Wood too. Hammers,nails,electricity,water. The end is near. Do yourself a favor and pull the trigger.


During the past several months, there have been several threads about this issue. It is clear that something MIGHT be wrong. MOCO needs to investigate. I am glad I have an 07 with throttle cables.....

Ditto

That's beyond sad. RIP

But blaming it on a technology that's as widespread on cars as it is (it's on my '05)without a solid caseof repetitive failures, or even one documented case, does nobody any good.

My condolence's

Heard about this from several friends, I'm in DFW. God bless. I send my regards with CJ & Justrite.

Yes its terrible

ORIGINAL: LdyMjo

I'm very sorry for the family's loss, and the road ahead for the wife.Ripper, thank you for the post. I am a new riderwith approx. 650on an 08 XL1200N and had my throttle stick yesterday in first. I am not sure if my set up is the same, but I will have it looked at. Yesterday I re-checked everything I was doing and there was nothing that should have been causing this. I just thought hum, must be cold or something--idle sticking. It seemed fine later in the day. I hadn't heard of this problem with any HD model before.

And hey, captjohn37, WTF? A head's up is an appropriate thing, and he's got a good reason to give us one. I did not read a dark omen in this, just concern. There is too much on this site that tries to blow off precautions becausesomefolks don't want to hear it. Someof us are grateful. Lighten up.


Glad I could help But, your bike does not have this type of throttle system so if it was/is sticking take it to the dealer ASAP and get it checked out because any sticking is an unsafe condition........ Good luck and ride safe

My condolence to the family and friends.

ToadsUltra07

my condolances to you and your family
i have had a prob with my 08 roadking that i posted a few days ago,but mine only happens in hot weather and i only notice it when i come to a stop it tends to idle very high i actually twisted the throttle back and held it there soon as i released it it went back to high idle again which would probably suggest it is being told to do this by the comp. when i rang my dealer he said it was to do with high temp conditions and it will sort itself out the more miles i do.thanks for your post and i think i will be calling my dealer and ask for an explanation in writingif anyone else has had the same prob as me i would like to know.

My condolences to the family.
Hope they can prove it was a HD design flaw.
We really need NEW BLOOD AT THE TOP LEVEL OF MOCO
who has real concerns for us customers!

Again my condolences!

Come on!...Get real!...Stop defending the stupid asses that designed HD TBW.

Yeah, fersure it's proven tech on many cars, but how many cars out there will reset the throttle if you shut engine off while you have it reved up?.....None....Only Harley does this!

Yep, if you have engine reved when you hit kill switch, the new idle speed is where the engine was when you killed it.....NOW THAT IS FARKED UP!

Yet many of you heresay it's just a glitch and we should learn to not use kill switch least we end up with out of control idle speed.....

You defenders with '08 TBW might end up in a ditch bleeding out while the MOCO and EMT's and all your friends whisper it was operator error(like is always is to John Public whenever a biker gets splattered).....Yeah, wait till you end up like that then try to prove TBW failed.....The bike will be wrecked, you will be wrecked, and all the King's horses and all his men won't be able to determine what really happened.

Oh c'mon now...the kill switch don't reset the idle speed when the engine is revved up.

I've done it during testing and it don't happen.

First of all, condolances to the brother and his family.

To set the record straight on the kill switch...

Bikes used to use keys to turn the ignition on. Sometimes these keys are inaccessible if there is a runaway throttle situation with cables (ask me how I know). In this case you pull the clutch, press the handlebar mounted kill switch and roll the bike onto the shoulder of the road.

It's there so you maintain two hand control withour removing one hand to turn the switch off.

That's what I was taught. Using the kill switch after turning on the IGN also keeps both hands on the bars while starting the bike.

ORIGINAL: ripper43

ORIGINAL: LdyMjo

I'm very sorry for the family's loss, and the road ahead for the wife.Ripper, thank you for the post. I am a new riderwith approx. 650on an 08 XL1200N and had my throttle stick yesterday in first. I am not sure if my set up is the same, but I will have it looked at. Yesterday I re-checked everything I was doing and there was nothing that should have been causing this. I just thought hum, must be cold or something--idle sticking. It seemed fine later in the day. I hadn't heard of this problem with any HD model before.

And hey, captjohn37, WTF? A head's up is an appropriate thing, and he's got a good reason to give us one. I did not read a dark omen in this, just concern. There is too much on this site that tries to blow off precautions becausesomefolks don't want to hear it. Someof us are grateful. Lighten up.


Glad I could help But, your bike does not have this type of throttle system so if it was/is sticking take it to the dealer ASAP and get it checked out because any sticking is an unsafe condition........ Good luck and ride safe


Thanks Ripper--glad to know not my system, though you're right--requires a check. Another post mentioned the high idle ata stop--from a stopping position is actually when it started for me, and it stayed that way until Ishifted into second. I lifted my hand and was not revving it--something amiss. Thanks again, and you ride safe as well.

Bad news. Be ready for anything because if you get out there enough you'll see it.

ORIGINAL: Windup08

ORIGINAL: captjon37

Good God, People believe anything. Everything and every product could be linked to a death but that does not mean if you own that product you will die. People die everyday of something. i find it hard to believe that TBW will be causeing multiple deaths or was the cause of that bull@#$% story death. If you believe everything you read you better build a bomb shelter under your house and live there and never come out. Then again, what would you build it with. Cement is responsible for many deaths. Wood too. Hammers,nails,electricity,water. The end is near. Do yourself a favor and pull the trigger.

Thank you for saying what I wanted to, but couldn't find the right words. I feel very sorry for this and any biker that goes down in an accident, but to declare all 08 FBW bikes a death waiting to happen is rediculous.



+1.

These bikes have been out for 8 months...some with only a few hundred miles some with several thousand miles. You would think there would be MANY MANY more incidents reported. Most reports I have heard have been about high RPMs at idle...not a sticking throttle.I have not had any incidents at all of either ther throttle sticking or high RPM...I have 2000 miles on mine. I just replaced the bars and have ridden a couple hundred miles.

I always stop myengine with the kill switch then turn off the ignition. I always turn on the ignition and then hit the "Run" switch to start the bike...no issues.

Like cruise control and the ABS they have to put in methods for safety...In fact if an error is thrown the Electroic Throttle Controlgoes into several safety modes includingfull engine shutdown (seepg 40 for those with an '08)

A few year back my daughter bought a SAAB...She called me screaming one day (a mother's scariest moment) her throttle was stuck and she was accelerating past 80 on a crowded freeway. I instructed her to shift to neutral (pulling the clutch in an automatic) get to the side ASAP and kill the engine. She is a small girl and may not have been able to yank the car to the side safely if she had shutdown. Turns out a clip on her cruise contorl had come off and stuck the throttle open...All actual cables.....

rlORIGINAL: LdyMjo

I'm very sorry for the family's loss, and the road ahead for the wife.Ripper, thank you for the post. I am a new riderwith approx. 650on an 08 XL1200N and had my throttle stick yesterday in first. I am not sure if my set up is the same, but I will have it looked at.

Your XL1200 has throttle cables I believe, so it couldn't be the same problem

Editted to add;
Never mind me, I forgot to read page 2 and see you got this answer already [sm=oopssign.gif]

Sorry for your famileys loss stay strong brother!!!!!

i have a bro that has parked his 08 until HD can make it right . has happen twice to him.....



USE CAUTION

ORIGINAL: choochoo

My condolences to the family.
Hope they can prove it was a HD design flaw.
We really need NEW BLOOD AT THE TOP LEVEL OF MOCO
who has real concerns for us customers!

Again my condolences!


Through this, you need to bring into the mix your petty problems with HD. You are one sad individual.

Sorry to hear of the loss of a rider and injury to his wife. I sure hope it didn't happen down on Hwy 51. There's one corner there that eats a lot of bikes.

i like my cables, going to check them right now!

FYI, Your Sporty does not have the same throttle set up as the 08 touring bikes. Your bike has the old style throttle cables, so if yours stuck that goes to prove that it's not just the TBW set ups that appear to be sticking.

No Peppa1 you must be wrong.

A throttle cable has never jammed[:'(] broke[:-] hung wide open......[:@]Left anyone stranded,,,, caused an accident or death,,,,,, never!!!

It only happens to the new stuff,,,,,, Why did HD ever invent such technology,,,,, I bet they got it from Al Gore. Yea ,that's it.

Some of you guys need to change your points and oil your kick starts!!!!!

The throttle by wire has to be a simple potentiometer design. Nothing really fancy about it. Certain amount of hand throttle roll equals a certain percentage of throttle blade opening.Not too high tech.

Been around on trucks (I mean trucks, not pick ups) since at least the late 80's. When the TPS (Throttle Position Switch) goes bad it usually returns you to idle with no acceleration control. Maybe the design of the HD potentiometer is picking up latent/back-fed electrical signals. Dunno.

RIP and condolences to the MRS.

ORIGINAL: The Baron

I have a question though. Couldn't a guy just pull in the clutch?



...or flip the handlebar kill switch, or turn the ignition switch off. Not to diminish the gravity of the situation, but an experienced rider would instinctively flip the kill switch, I would think.

ORIGINAL: uweldit

Oh c'mon now...the kill switch don't reset the idle speed when the engine is revved up.

I've done it during testing and it don't happen.

What he said...
I haven't had any problems out of mine and I use the kill switch all the time revved or not.. Mine does idle a little high when 1st started, but drops down soon. Nice feel to it and crisp response. 5000 miles on an 08 SG,

BUT after reading about others mishaps, and fatalities with FBW I am certainly knocking on wood..!!

My condolences to the Mrs, and family..

ORIGINAL: ripper43

ORIGINAL: LdyMjo

I'm very sorry for the family's loss, and the road ahead for the wife.Ripper, thank you for the post. I am a new riderwith approx. 650on an 08 XL1200N and had my throttle stick yesterday in first. I am not sure if my set up is the same, but I will have it looked at. Yesterday I re-checked everything I was doing and there was nothing that should have been causing this. I just thought hum, must be cold or something--idle sticking. It seemed fine later in the day. I hadn't heard of this problem with any HD model before.

And hey, captjohn37, WTF? A head's up is an appropriate thing, and he's got a good reason to give us one. I did not read a dark omen in this, just concern. There is too much on this site that tries to blow off precautions becausesomefolks don't want to hear it. Someof us are grateful. Lighten up.


Glad I could help But, your bike does not have this type of throttle system so if it was/is sticking take it to the dealer ASAP and get it checked out because any sticking is an unsafe condition........ Good luck and ride safe
Apparently all throttles can stick. Hmm.

RIP brother.

let's see HDMOCO can't make a simple outdoor thermometer
(ambient air temp) work right, and you're going to trust them
with your life to make a TBW that works flawlessly?
I don't think so!!!
ORIGINAL: ripper43

ORIGINAL: jag1886

I looked at 08's RC'sbefore purchasing my 07RC. I told my wife it the showroom that I wasn't willing to trust my life to some new technology that Harley had dreamed up.


Thats just it, it's not new It'sbeen around a long time. maybe not in this application but in many others.

Foremost, my sincere condolences to the victim's family. And I pray for his wife's speedy recovery.

Wannet, I encountered the exact problem on a 2008 EGC that I rented 2 weeks ago. I called the dealer and I was told that this symptom is normal on the 2008 modelsfor the first 1K miles.

Number one BITE ME!!
Number two, I'm not the only one here that mentioned it.
Number three So bite me again!!
Yes we will have to see if it can be proven.
But there have been numerous posts about 08 having a high idle
at various times.
The computer should never override what the operator is doing.
the operator may have a valid reason for his action.
all I want people here to do, is if they feel they have a valid complaint
is to not take it lying down like a whipped dog.
got a feeling you are a whipped dog or even worse a company yes man
with no real thoughts of your own! For that I can get a parrot or a myna bird!!
So if you don't like my posts, skip mine.
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

My condolences to the family.
Hope they can prove it was a HD design flaw.
We really need NEW BLOOD AT THE TOP LEVEL OF MOCO
who has real concerns for us customers!

Again my condolences!


Through this, you need to bring into the mix your petty problems with HD. You are one sad individual.

No news reports of anything like this in the local media outlets from March.

A guy did die on a bike on a downtown Fort Worth Interstate Highway on Monday night, but he was most likely not a Boozefighter, since alcohol is suspected as a contributing factor.

not to make light of it,
but I doubt you would react fast enough or
even think about it.
As you are merrily riding along and all is good and suddenly
something goes wrong.
You're thinking in this case,let off the throttle, apply brakes
lean, try to ride it (because it isn't that bad at first), then you're
thinking of the missus, and hope she's ok and doesn't shift her weight
cause she's scared, further exascerbating the problem.
Then you would proably think of the kill switch.
By then it is most likely too late. You're far enough into the curve, that
with the stuck throttle (and possibly rising rpms) centrifugal force has
got you and now even if you hit the kill switch it most likely won't do you
any good.
you may lean harder to stay on the road,but you're still likely going down, HARD.
Plus deflector poles on edge or other posts may snag you, spin you or tumble you
or you're caught up on the bike and you and it tumble. Or You and bike run off
edge or slide and go through whatever,tumble,slide bounce.
Nope Very doubtfull natural instinct will be to quickly hit the kill switch.
Maybe if you practice hitting it a lot while in trouble and going down (like in MX).
Beside we get too complacent and distracted when riding, I know we've all been there.
Got a 71 sporty sitting at bottom of mountain above big bear / lake arrowhead
that can attest to that. little frost on road one November morning coming down from
DeepCreek (nude skinny dipping in the early 70's). hit it and slid across the road and off.
Narrow two lane at the top back then with stone pillars and logging chain for guard rails.
nope kill switch wasn't even in my mind back then. Hell I can't even remember if the sporty
had oneor not, but doesn't matter now anyway, but the 350cl honda scrambler I got to
replace it did have one.
ORIGINAL: iclick

ORIGINAL: The Baron

I have a question though. Couldn't a guy just pull in the clutch?



...or flip the handlebar kill switch, or turn the ignition switch off. Not to diminish the gravity of the situation, but an experienced rider would instinctively flip the kill switch, I would think.

SORRY FOR YOUR LOST.I agree that pulling clutch or hiting kill switch could have been done.The problem is we are talking after the fact and not while heading toards something when ****s going wrong.As former racer I can tell you no one can say I would have done_____.its all differant when its your ass on wild ride.
Again sorry man,only thing good is if die doing what you love its as bad as dying while working or suffering from illnes,thats just my veiw on it though.

ORIGINAL: Jim Dawson

ORIGINAL: Windup08

Thank you for saying what I wanted to, but couldn't find the right words. I feel very sorry for this and any biker that goes down in an accident, but to declare all 08 FBW bikes a death waiting to happen is ridiculous.



Equally ridiculous is believing that the electronic throttle is not only new,but a Harley innovation.


Man there's two words you don't see together very often!

Sad accident, but don't condemn TBW just yet. HD didn't invent it, it's been around for years. I know we have had fire engines with it for over 16 years.

man that sucks

SORRY FOR THE LOSS. MAY GOD BE WITH HIM AND HIS FAMILY

It's easy to say hit the kill switch or pull the clutch lever back, but you need to realize thatwhen throttle accelerates unexpectedly, it will throw you back in your seat and both hands can easily slip off the hand grips.

The question that needs to be asked is... were they using an after-market race tuner on this bike?

Any time and any way a Biker dies it is traggic,but how do they know the throtte stuck?

Too bad these two subjects are in one post. It bites that somebody died on a bike for any reason. If it was mechanical malfunction that is even worse.We all run the risk that a flat tire, dropped valve, or other failure that would just stop a car could kill on a bike. My deepest sympathy to all in this family.

On the technical front, I side with the innocent until guilty sentiments. On the surface, it hints of thethe Audi unintended acceleration fiasco. 60 Minutes convinced an entire generation of buyers that Audis were unsafe. And then years later it comes out that the victims panicked and stepped on the gas instead of the brake.

My prayers and thoughts are with them.

No matter the cause....nothing will rewind time. Lets just be respectful to the ones we lost as friends....and to the family that lost their loved ones.

Billy G

ORIGINAL: 8up

Â*Â* Any time and any way a Biker dies it is traggic,but how do they know the throtte stuck?


Because if it was NOT the bikes fault, there's no huge corporation to sue.

ORIGINAL: ww1flyingace

ORIGINAL: 8up

Any time and any way a Biker dies it is traggic,but how do they know the throtte stuck?


Because if it was NOT the bikes fault, there's no huge corporation to sue.


As negative as that sounds, it is also very true unfortunately. The fact that the bike was in the shop previously for a problem with the TBW system might and I say "might" be all that is behind the blame of the possible cause of this accident. The sad thing isthe fact that we may never know what or why this happenedby the time the Lawyers get through with it.

ORIGINAL: choochoo

Number one BITE ME!!
Number two, I'm not the only one here that mentioned it.
Number three So bite me again!!
Yes we will have to see if it can be proven.
But there have been numerous posts about 08 having a high idle
at various times.
The computer should never override what the operator is doing.
the operator may have a valid reason for his action.
all I want people here to do, is if they feel they have a valid complaint
is to not take it lying down like a whipped dog.
got a feeling you are a whipped dog or even worse a company yes man
with no real thoughts of your own! For that I can get a parrot or a myna bird!!
So if you don't like my posts, skip mine.
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

My condolences to the family.
Hope they can prove it was a HD design flaw.
We really need NEW BLOOD AT THE TOP LEVEL OF MOCO
who has real concerns for us customers!

Again my condolences!


Through this, you need to bring into the mix your petty problems with HD. You are one sad individual.



ChewChew.....you are an example of someone who has ZERO class. This thread is not the place for you to do your Sportster whining about HD. This thread is a way to wish the man's family God's speed. You never, ever leave an opportunity to rant about HD. You have no clue on when and where to whine. Your actions are pitiful.

ORIGINAL: choochoo

let's see HDMOCO can't make a simple outdoor thermometer
(ambient air temp) work right, and you're going to trust them
with your life to make a TBW that works flawlessly?
I don't think so!!!
ORIGINAL: ripper43

ORIGINAL: jag1886

I looked at 08's RC'sbefore purchasing my 07RC. I told my wife it the showroom that I wasn't willing to trust my life to some new technology that Harley had dreamed up.


Thats just it, it's not new It'sbeen around a long time. maybe not in this application but in many others.




This is about a man's life, you dolt....not about your daily rant about the air temp gauge. Get a freaking life.

My condolences to the family and friends.

Reading this thread and a few others on the TBW issue I've noticed that the 08 owners who have actually experienced a problem have posted about an idle problem only, no sticking throttles and no accelerations.

The idle problem is between the ECU and the throttle control motor, it haslittle to do with thegrip sensor. It is a nuisance problem not a life threatening issue, and a simple procedure has been posted to reset it. Simply the learning curve of something new. As far as some of the statements that cars don't do this and it's an HD issue, sorry that's far from true. All computer controlled vehicles, ALL OF THEM, exhibit a learning curve based on driver input. Many parameters are adjusted based on individual driving habits. The high idle issue is simply one of those parameters in Harley's programming, Programming that I believe was written by DELPHI.(Same as General Motors).

As far as a sticking throttle or an accelerating throttle I haven't seen any first hand posts yet from someone with an 08 that has actually had those problems, just a lot of 07 and earlier owners making claims about something they think or predict will happen. The signal from the TBW is not a simply an on and off switch. It's a complicated signal with redundant fail safes to prevent unintended acceleration.

If anyone WHO RIDES AN 08 bike would like to post about other then idleproblemsthat THEY HAVE ACTUALKNOWLEDGE ofI'm sure I'm not the only member here who would like tohere about it.

I usually don't post on alot of issues but I started reading this post since it started and have returned for the updates.
I was out riding with my son today and we stopped by the HD dealer because he had a recall on his regulator. Now I'm not an Ole salt when it comes to riding, I'm a newbie and I got into this riding so I can spend more time with my son. So here's what happen to me. I'm parked in a parking space at the HD facing out into the lane. You have to make an immediate sharp left turn to exit. I start my exit to the leftand the RPM's shoot up. First thing that hit's me is this thread (holy cr*p!). I pull in the clutch and the RPM's are going up higher. TBW fault you say, not even close. When I left the space and started my left turn I had 3 fingers laying on the brake and thumb-palm wrap on the grip, making the left turn forced the throttle to increase the RPM. I couldn't release the grip it felt like it was glued there, but I did have the sense to pull the clutch and then got the throttle rolled down. Embarrassed yes as others saw it happen. This instance was defiantly my fault and luckily I have learn from this.

Whatever the cause, a good man went down. Hope his wife can recover from this, and the friends and family. Good luck to you all.

Gotta wonder about this one.. You can't be sure that the TBW caused the problem... Very sad,, agreed, but I'd hate to see Harley get a bad rep if it's not absolutely true.

ORIGINAL: YodaddyKeith

Come on!...Get real!...Stop defending the stupid asses that designed HD TBW.

Yeah, fersure it's proven tech on many cars, but how many cars out there will reset the throttle if you shut engine off while you have it reved up?.....None....Only Harley does this!

Yep, if you have engine reved when you hit kill switch, the new idle speed is where the engine was when you killed it.....NOW THAT IS FARKED UP!

Yet many of you heresay it's just a glitch and we should learn to not use kill switch least we end up with out of control idle speed.....

You defenders with '08 TBW might end up in a ditch bleeding out while the MOCO and EMT's and all your friends whisper it was operator error(like is always is to John Public whenever a biker gets splattered).....Yeah, wait till you end up like that then try to prove TBW failed.....The bike will be wrecked, you will be wrecked, and all the King's horses and all his men won't be able to determine what really happened.
Read your own post! Your saying you believe the man died because his TBW made him crash and then turn right around and say we won't be able to prove it was the TWB if we crash??

God rest his soul

Everybody is just assuming that the TBW stuck open. Knowbody has any proof.

I'm not worried about TBW, I even went out and bought a new 08 SG after reading some of these posts.

I'm glad this was posted though, it might save someone life since they now know what to do if it sticks. Pull the clutch or hit the kill switch.

Again I say BITE me.
I have to guess you are too damn ignorant to understsand me
wjen I say, just don't bother resding my posts if they upset you so much.
Besides in the above example of a sporty going don, was in response to
anothers statement of pull in clutch and hit kill switch.
Was just trying to show that when it is happening to you and everything
is happening in real time and FAST, you most likely will not instinctively
pull the clutch and hit the kill switch. it takes time for the brain to process
all the incoming information make a decision and react. Normally 3/4 to 1 sec
and buy then in many cases kill switch or not may be too late.
so again BITe me you wise azz dumb azz
As Mr T was fond ofsaying " I pity the fool.." And you are the fool I am speaking about!!!
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

Number one BITE ME!!
Number two, I'm not the only one here that mentioned it.
Number three So bite me again!!
Yes we will have to see if it can be proven.
But there have been numerous posts about 08 having a high idle
at various times.
The computer should never override what the operator is doing.
the operator may have a valid reason for his action.
all I want people here to do, is if they feel they have a valid complaint
is to not take it lying down like a whipped dog.
got a feeling you are a whipped dog or even worse a company yes man
with no real thoughts of your own! For that I can get a parrot or a myna bird!!
So if you don't like my posts, skip mine.
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

My condolences to the family.
Hope they can prove it was a HD design flaw.
We really need NEW BLOOD AT THE TOP LEVEL OF MOCO
who has real concerns for us customers!

Again my condolences!


Through this, you need to bring into the mix your petty problems with HD. You are one sad individual.



ChewChew.....you are an example of someone who has ZERO class. This thread is not the place for you to do your Sportster whining about HD. This thread is a way to wish the man's family God's speed. You never, ever leave an opportunity to rant about HD. You have no clue on when and where to whine. Your actions are pitiful.

I offer my condolenses to the family may God be with them

ORIGINAL: choochoo

Again I say BITE me.
I have to guess you are too damn ignorant to understsand me
wjen I say, just don't bother resding my posts if they upset you so much.
Besides in the above example of a sporty going don, was in response to
anothers statement of pull in clutch and hit kill switch.
Was just trying to show that when it is happening to you and everything
is happening in real time and FAST, you most likely will not instinctively
pull the clutch and hit the kill switch. it takes time for the brain to process
all the incoming information make a decision and react. Normally 3/4 to 1 sec
and buy then in many cases kill switch or not may be too late.
so again BITe me you wise azz dumb azz
As Mr T was fond ofsaying " I pity the fool.." And you are the fool I am speaking about!!!
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

Number one BITE ME!!
Number two, I'm not the only one here that mentioned it.
Number three So bite me again!!
Yes we will have to see if it can be proven.
But there have been numerous posts about 08 having a high idle
at various times.
The computer should never override what the operator is doing.
the operator may have a valid reason for his action.
all I want people here to do, is if they feel they have a valid complaint
is to not take it lying down like a whipped dog.
got a feeling you are a whipped dog or even worse a company yes man
with no real thoughts of your own! For that I can get a parrot or a myna bird!!
So if you don't like my posts, skip mine.
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

My condolences to the family.
Hope they can prove it was a HD design flaw.
We really need NEW BLOOD AT THE TOP LEVEL OF MOCO
who has real concerns for us customers!

Again my condolences!


Through this, you need to bring into the mix your petty problems with HD. You are one sad individual.



ChewChew.....you are an example of someone who has ZERO class. This thread is not the place for you to do your Sportster whining about HD. This thread is a way to wish the man's family God's speed. You never, ever leave an opportunity to rant about HD. You have no clue on when and where to whine. Your actions are pitiful.



It is a shame that you made it an effort to make this thread, like several others, all about you.

If someone actually got killed, I'm sorry for the family's loss, but I have to call Internet BS on the alleged cause. Sounds like someone is looking for a big payday via a trumped up lawsuit to me. If it WAS an out-of-control throttle (electronic or otherwise), and assuming the guy knew where the clutch lever was located, why in hell didn't he just disengage the clutch? Put yourself in the same scenario. What would you do? I never had a bike throttle stick, but it happened to me several times in the junker cars I had when I was young. When it happened, I pushed in the clutch pedal, and pulled onto the shoulder of the road to get it unstuck. Problem solved and without drama.

P.S.- If anyone here has a reaction time of between "3/4 to 1 sec," I suggest they stay the hell of the road. FYI, the average driver's reaction time is .088 seconds, that is, less than 9/10ths of a second.

Harley did not invent TBW the Yamaha R1 has it for two years already came originaly from GP race bikes.in case itsticks, just pull in the clutch.

ORIGINAL: HARDGLIDE

Harley did not invent TBW the Yamaha R1 has it for two years already came originaly from GP race bikes.in case itsticks, just pull in the clutch.


It wasn't INVENTED by Yamaha either. That technology has been in cars and trucks for nearly 20 years.

First off...sorry for the loss. Yes, I have heard of this problem. Harley is dragging it's feet to solve the issue. I hope this gets their attention, and forces them to do a full recall before someone else gets hurt.

Roadking, it is refreshing to see you step up and say it was your error and not the TBW. you could have said that it was a problem with the throttle. What would that have accomplished, nothing except more fears from all of us guys makiing a purchase of a 2008 road king. I for one would be the first to step up and say it was my fault or lack of knowledge if something was to go wrong. how else are we going to get to the bottom of a problem if we dont know the whole story. I am sorry for the guys family and him loosing his life, also It would be nice for us all to step up and say, HEY man it was my fault that this or that happened, and not make quick judgements. There is a backgound to everything that results in an unfortunate incident and yes we all should be aware of it. BUT we need guys to be able and willing to say it was their fault if in fact it was. How many 08 touring bikes are out on the road and compare to how many people are registered on here? It is realy hard to make a judgement of something unless we have some concrete data. such as the service bulliten (M-1213A) Engine Idle Temperature Management System. which I would have never been aware of if I hadn't been on hdforums. We need these forums and we are not here to put anybody down as we are all on here for the same thing, (Information). We all need to take all this with an open mind and all learn something. I want to thank everybody for their help in me making my decision to purchase a 2008 Road King. I hope I have offended no one.

ORIGINAL: malmax

Yes, I have heard of this problem.


I've "heard" about this problem myself. That doesn't mean it's true or that any real "issue" exists. People seem to LOVE conspiracy theories around here, but I for one don't unquestioningly believe everything I hear or read on the Internet.

ORIGINAL: Jsans
The question that needs to be asked is... were they using an after-market race tuner on this bike?


Hell of a question, but just one of many that needs to be answered before people jump to condemn TBW or HD.

Resto

sorry to hear a fellow enthusiast passing away and all the best to his wife.....

TBW....is getting pelted here and there is alot of arm chair quarterbacking.....
so while you are at it..consider this.......

Cruise Control preset at some time prior back down the freeway @ 70 mph.......cruise kicked off sometime prior to the curve in the road and negotiating the curve @ 40 mph.....inadvertantly hitting the 'resume' switch....and away we go......

Point is...will we ever know exactly what happened?

I'd still like to know where this accident occured. Can't find anything online.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

We will pray for her full recovery, may he RIP

I think we all have gotten way of topic, start another thread to discuss the TBW.

I guess you must be in love with meyou only read my posts and nobody elses,

I did not start the subject of a posssible HD at fault claim here.
I did NOT rant about the sporty.
It was an informative statement about the kill switch and hitting it
instinctively. I believe few if any here would do it, when an event like this
is happening to them.
You just turned it around in that birdsized brain of yours.
But please , find somebody else to adore and worship and pant after.
I already have a g/F and she treats me well.
I hate to bust your bubble so, but I'm sure you will get over it.
It was just puppy love on yur part anyway.
ORIGINAL: russl179
My mamma told me not to argue with a fool, I should have listened closer.

ORIGINAL: choochoo

Again I say BITE me.
I have to guess you are too damn ignorant to understsand me
wjen I say, just don't bother resding my posts if they upset you so much.
Besides in the above example of a sporty going don, was in response to
anothers statement of pull in clutch and hit kill switch.
Was just trying to show that when it is happening to you and everything
is happening in real time and FAST, you most likely will not instinctively
pull the clutch and hit the kill switch. it takes time for the brain to process
all the incoming information make a decision and react. Normally 3/4 to 1 sec
and buy then in many cases kill switch or not may be too late.
so again BITe me you wise azz dumb azz
As Mr T was fond ofsaying " I pity the fool.." And you are the fool I am speaking about!!!
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

Number one BITE ME!!
Number two, I'm not the only one here that mentioned it.
Number three So bite me again!!
Yes we will have to see if it can be proven.
But there have been numerous posts about 08 having a high idle
at various times.
The computer should never override what the operator is doing.
the operator may have a valid reason for his action.
all I want people here to do, is if they feel they have a valid complaint
is to not take it lying down like a whipped dog.
got a feeling you are a whipped dog or even worse a company yes man
with no real thoughts of your own! For that I can get a parrot or a myna bird!!
So if you don't like my posts, skip mine.
ORIGINAL: russl179

ORIGINAL: choochoo

My condolences to the family.
Hope they can prove it was a HD design flaw.
We really need NEW BLOOD AT THE TOP LEVEL OF MOCO
who has real concerns for us customers!

Again my condolences!


Through this, you need to bring into the mix your petty problems with HD. You are one sad individual.



ChewChew.....you are an example of someone who has ZERO class. This thread is not the place for you to do your Sportster whining about HD. This thread is a way to wish the man's family God's speed. You never, ever leave an opportunity to rant about HD. You have no clue on when and where to whine. Your actions are pitiful.



It is a shame that you made it an effort to make this thread, like several others, all about you.

And 3/4 of a second is .75 seconds and that actually is quite accurate.
reaction time on a two wheeled bike is different than a 4 wheel cage.
Plus you have other forces acting on you more directly than in a car.
If he was going into a curve as somewhat indicated, he was applying
a certain percentage of throttle based on sharpness of curve, his combined
weight working against centrifugal force, plus the amount of lean and other factors.
To suddenly pull in the clutch to compensate for the over revving and over speeding
could cause the bike to fall into the turn and thus go down anyway.
and your .088 = 9/10 needs to read .88. which means my .75 (3/4) to 1 falls right
in with your statement.
uh oh I got to go here comes my admiring lover chasing me again. .............
ORIGINAL: XTrooper3936

If someone actually got killed, I'm sorry for the family's loss, but I have to call Internet BS on the alleged cause. Sounds like someone is looking for a big payday via a trumped up lawsuit to me. If it WAS an out-of-control throttle (electronic or otherwise), and assuming the guy knew where the clutch lever was located, why in hell didn't he just disengage the clutch? Put yourself in the same scenario. What would you do? I never had a bike throttle stick, but it happened to me several times in the junker cars I had when I was young. When it happened, I pushed in the clutch pedal, and pulled onto the shoulder of the road to get it unstuck. Problem solved and without drama.

P.S.- If anyone here has a reaction time of between "3/4 to 1 sec," I suggest they stay the hell of the road. FYI, the average driver's reaction time is .088 seconds, that is, less than 9/10ths of a second.

ORIGINAL: ripper43

ORIGINAL: The Baron

My condolences to the involved parties.

I have a question though. Couldn't a guy just pull in the clutch?

This is why I stick to old school carbs and cables. Electrical demons are worthy foes.


I thought the very same thing. Pull in the clutch ? hard to say with out being there.


Or hit the kill switch.. Its amazing that the TBW technology has been out there since the 80's. How can this be such a huge issue??

Dave

BOYCOTT the 08's

GODSPEED and RIP Hammer

ORIGINAL: rayfinseats

BOYCOTT the 08's


I really hope you're trying to be funny!

I have a 2008 Sportster 1200, and the throttle has stuck on me three times, always in first gear. Mentioned it to service people at the dealer where I bought it while in for the 10000 mile oil change. Said it was only on 2008 touring bikes and that the Sportsters have cables, I don't care how many cables it has, know when something is not running right, scared the daylights out of me. I am going to send a letter to the Harley Davidson Co. and let them know, and hope anyone else with a Sportster would do so also, then maybe they will take it seriously. As a friend said, they aren't going to admit to any problems until there are alot of complaints or a recall. Riding and keeping my fingers crossed.

My condolences and prayers go out to the family and friends.

Since I was not there I can not speculate on what happened. I have worked with these types of sysytems on aircraft and there are pretty reliable. But, things do happen.

Very sorry to hear of this and all my best for the friends and family.

I am, however, skeptical of the cause being the ETC. There are many, yes many, redundancies to override the ETC in such an event both electrical and mechanical(return springs ). Not saying it didn't happen, but a lot would have to fail to have the ETC lock the throttle open. H-D wouldn't be allowed to put a system on the road that didn't have those many overrides

Remember it is a money numbers game. Some bean counter can decide it is cheaper to pay a few lawsuits than re-engineer a whole system. You know this kind of accounting has happened before, why do you think any large corp. that is governed by their quarterly sales numbers would be any different? I bought my 08 FLHX in July and have had both exceleration and high idle problems. I called the dealer and the told me about the 4 off and on trick which seemed to work, but it happened again so I took it in. They told me that there was a new code upgrade that they would do. After I picked it up and have ridden about 2 weeks , it happened again last evening. The PROBLEM is REAL and the latest firmware didn't seem to fix it. I am very nervous, but there is nothing I can do except stop riding the bike while I continue making payments. I had only a few payments left on my Fatboy and it would have been free and clear. I should have kept it and not traded it in.

Very sad, sorry to hear. May the family find peace in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Tragic whenever this happens.

Ripper, what ever happened to the wife......Did she ever say what really happened?

Fairfax County police officers have complained of the same thing. They have a pretty big riding force here in NOVA. I'm sorry for your loss. RIP HAMMER, hope there are bikes in heaven, or that the wings are really fast.

Harley has had an ongoing problem with their computers for long time. How many here, when shutting down the throttle and coasting, all of a sudden have a surge that lasts for a second or so? Until I did the stage 1, it happened all the time on my '06.

I had pretty much forgot about it, until I test drove an '08 Street Glide, and it happened again as I was rounding a cloverleaf exit and slowing to a stop. The surge almost took me off the road.

That said, I've also had clutch cables on previous non-Harley bikes break at the most in-oppportune times. I've appreciated the heavy cable of the Harleys, but now read that the new '09's have a lighter clutch cable than previous years.

Sorry to hear this...RIP

My condolences to the man and hope his wife has a speedy recovery and tries to get back on the horse.

But I also have to wonder, not to kick a man when he is down but I too always keep a finger or two on the clutch and front brake levers, like most of you it stems from my old dirt bike riding days. Plus one good thing about the ignition switch on a bike is that when you shut it off when it is rolling down the road you don't loose brake or steering control like you do in a car.

It just leaves me wondering...........................

Bastards! Hope the family goes after HD AND the stealer! I think HD needs an attitude adjustment, right in their pocket book! I have a issue they want to ignore, my bike shuts down for no reason, no fun on the interstate at 70, in heavy traffic! I've informed my wife, should something happen to me because of this, I want her to go after HD and the stealer like a Pit-Bull! Hope HD gets whats commin to em!

My condolences to the family of the fellow biker.TBW has been around for a long time its not a HD invention,but you never know,anything can happen,here we might never know what really happened,might be TBW and than again might not be,speedy recovery to his wife and may God watch over his family and the rest of us.

I feel for the guy, but come on......something goes wrong while your riding.....you either pull in the clutch or hit the kill switch.....or both.

I dont believe for a second that it was the ETC, and if the was a wide spread problem with the HD ETC.....we here at this forum would have heard many many reports by now. Not a few isolated incidents.

I feel for the guy, but come on......something goes wrong while your riding.....you either pull in the clutch or hit the kill switch.....or both.

I don't believe for a second that it was the ETC, and if the was a wide spread problem with the HD ETC.....we here at this forum would have heard many many reports by now. Not a few isolated incidents.


Ya know, when your riding along and something happens out of the blue, ya go, what the FU--, then it's to late as it happens so fast. How do you know it wasn't the ETC? As for the statement "we here at this forum would have heard many many reports by now. Not a few isolated incidents." This is the same BS as with MANY people with the same problem I have with engine shut down, that happens out of no where! Usually on the highway! The stealer and mfg, aren't going to acknowledge the problem, as it implies liability! They don't want to be responsible! In the MoCo eyes, it just doesn't happen and if you take it in and they can't replicate the problem, it doesn't exist!! They also will tell you, we have never seen this and yours is the only one that does it! Bullsh--!

Ask any computer expert about unexplained random events. They happen and they can be fatal. My brother has a pacemaker/defibrilator. About 1/1000 fire once a year for no apparent reason. Not a defect unless you are that one. Electronic products interact with the environment we live in. Static discharge, stray EMF pulses, age and cosmic radiation all can trigger a computer to do something not in its programming.

Add more computers and more events occur, eventually someone dies. Not a manufacturing problem at all. **** happens. I am staying with my 07 Street Glide to avoid having one more computer in the chain of command. As I get more and more paranoid I may just ride the 04 carbed Heritage in the garage. You pay your money and you take your chances. Best of luck to all of you.

Not my place to judge, my sincere condolences and prayers go out to the family and club.

my condolances to you and your family
i have had a prob with my 08 roadking that i posted a few days ago,but mine only happens in hot weather and i only notice it when i come to a stop it tends to idle very high i actually twisted the throttle back and held it there soon as i released it it went back to high idle again which would probably suggest it is being told to do this by the comp. when i rang my dealer he said it was to do with high temp conditions and it will sort itself out the more miles i do.thanks for your post and i think i will be calling my dealer and ask for an explanation in writingif anyone else has had the same prob as me i would like to know.

RIP brothers who have gone down for whatever reason.

"IT WILL SORT ITSELF OUT THE MORE MILES i DO" Damn, All by itself?
"It will get better with more miles"
"It's normal"
Wish I had a dollar every time I,ve been given these lines.

MadDuck is right. Random stuff happens. Even UNIX boxes crash every once in a while.

I'll mention something else to think about: Among other things, I'm a genuine computer expert (mostly databases these days). I also have a bit of DIY EFI experience. I have three megasquirted vehicles. I upload, download and datalog my vehicles all the time. The upload process communicates between the PC and the EFI computer over a serial cable. If _something happens_, it is very possible to accidentally overwrite one part of non-volitile memory when you are trying to write a different part. Causes could be anything from **** happens, stray pulse, bug in the software on the ECU, bug in the software on the PC sending the instructions, surge/spike in the 12V line, low voltage, high voltage, or more. This doesn't happen very often, fortunately. But when it does, it could take anything from a total re-flash to just resending all the variables. If something like this does happen, then the ECU computer could do absolutely anything from hanging up, turning on the injectors and leaving them on, or if you have FBW, cranking open the throttle and leaving it there. This could happen immediately or only after you drive it for a while and some bizzare combination of circumstances happen.

Now, I know that the stock fuel maps on these new EFI bikes suck, or everyone wouldn't be changing them. So, what I would like to know is of all the people who have reported the WOT issue on a FBW throttle bike, how many never had anyone touch their fuel maps? How many had someone remap things for a new air cleaner, pipes, "stage 1" whatever? Who did the remap, what software were they using?

There is some inherent flaws in the system, but what gripes my ass, is the stealers who are arrogant and condescending to you and your situation. As of today, I'm done with the loser stealer I have been dealing with. The hour drive south is my next stop. Funny how those a$$hole stealer tries to make you feel guilty to return a part that is a possible cause of a problem. Then to make a statement like, I can't run it thru the system and I'll have to to buy the part for you. Whatever, works for me! Most of time you're on your own because they will not start throwing parts at your ride to track the situation down.. Moral of story?? Get your wallet out and start chasing a problem, because under warranty, they won't fix it. I would make a wager tho-- I'll bet if it's out of warranty, they'll find the problem then, for a cost!! Oh yeah, they put down forums as they all have misleading information! What those idiots don't recognise is, this is where reality and the answers are!!! Remember, information is knowledge and power!

Does anyone even KNOW that this is what caused the death?
Or are you spouting what you "hear" and "feel". :)

There will be more sad tales to follow....you wait n see....TBW (as designed by HD) will kill/injure many of us yet.....mark my words.

haven't seen yodaddy post in quite a while, but i'm still waiting for all those sad tales of woe to happen. actually, i'm quite glad they haven't, enough bros are taken out by external sources without having to worry about their ride taking them out.

This post was 6 months old. I have to imagine if there was a problem with the TBW we'd of heard about it on the forum or from the Moco.

This post was 6 months old. I have to imagine if there was a problem with the TBW we'd of heard about it on the forum or from the Moco.


I wouldn't count on that! Mfg's are like Bill Clinton, don't ask don't tell! Only until there are more deaths, there will not be a recall, if this is the problem! The TSB works in the same fashion of don't ask don't tell.

Hey all... I have an 09 RKC, and I just got back from a long ride through the Harriman State Park, in lovely New York. Fall is here, the leaves are changing, my bike isn't broken in yet, and is getting 40mpg, so life is good.

I was heading towards a store, when I noticed upon slowing down that my bike wasn't decelerating like it should, so I twisted the throttle a bit forward, and it released. I promptly pulled in the clutch, twisted the throttle towards me, and low and behold, the throttle was staying in the on position even though I had released it! All I had to do was twist it past the neutral / starting position to get the bike to get back to idle, but this is scary! I even had an experience on the way home in which the bike wasn't slowing as it should when a car slowed in front of me, and while it wasn't a surge, it stayed at speed without slowing down due to the engines resistance.

I am glad I came across this thread, RIP to the unfortunate victim on circumstance, I hope they sue the manufacturer so that this issue is addressed, and to all that have the electronic throttle, ride safe.

Andrew aka RoadKingKamchi

Check to see if by chance there are any codes. I don't think HD will recognize it as being a problem, unless your bike is not running or towed in. They will tell you they can't replicate the problem so therefore there isn't one. Good luck. I would still notify them as to the situation and inform your better half, should something happen to you for her to go after the dealer and MoCo! They will not recognize bikes that shut down for no appearent reason, because when you bring it in for them to see, it's running!

Good God, People believe anything. Everything and every product could be linked to a death but that does not mean if you own that product you will die. People die everyday of something. i find it hard to believe that TBW will be causeing multiple deaths or was the cause of that bull@#$% story death. If you believe everything you read you better build a bomb shelter under your house and live there and never come out. Then again, what would you build it with. Cement is responsible for many deaths. Wood too. Hammers,nails,electricity,water. The end is near. Do yourself a favor and pull the trigger.
+1 I agree with You.

Ya know, when your riding along and something happens out of the blue, ya go, what the FU--, then it's to late as it happens so fast. How do you know it wasn't the ETC? As for the statement "we here at this forum would have heard many many reports by now. Not a few isolated incidents." This is the same BS as with MANY people with the same problem I have with engine shut down, that happens out of no where! Usually on the highway! The stealer and mfg, aren't going to acknowledge the problem, as it implies liability! They don't want to be responsible! In the MoCo eyes, it just doesn't happen and if you take it in and they can't replicate the problem, it doesn't exist!! They also will tell you, we have never seen this and yours is the only one that does it! Bullsh--!

I agree with you that other guy is jerk. I have an 08 and have had nothing but problems with the fly by wire. I love harleys too...on my third one...but if there is a problem with it then I can't defend that. Anyone who tries to defend Harley on this one is a complete bafoon. I hope that Harley wakes up and sees what a terrible error they have made by putting fly by wire on there bikes. After reading this I will be selling my 08 and buying another bike no newer than an 07.

I have some fixed feeling on tech changes. While it's scarry to think of the FBW stuff failing, I also had a throttle cable jam from corrosion. Everything on my airplane is mechanical, but I've had a mag and prop governor roll over. I think that we have to remember the old saying as we ride; "If it moves, it can break."

It's easy to say hit the kill switch or pull the clutch lever back, but you need to realize thatwhen throttle accelerates unexpectedly, it will throw you back in your seat and both hands can easily slip off the hand grips.

The question that needs to be asked is... were they using an after-market race tuner on this bike?

In a corner? Dude - get a grip!

Until the safety investigation is complete can't make a judgement either way. The kill switch is close for a reason I can't believe that wasn't an option. You can't rule out operator error as a cause.

The same 08 RG a buddy of mine has that i test rode when he started it up ran up to 2500 rpms and would not release or return to idle until he turned it off. After that it has never done it again. It's been 4 months since and 2000 miles. Either way its kind of creepy and hope that his family is taken care of by the MOCO if it is something they did wrong. Sorry for the lost of yours and his family.