It could just be me... but the motor in my 04 Road King seems to tap a bit too much. To me, it almost sounds like the valves are out of adjusment, the lash being too loose. However, since the TC88 has hydraulic lifters, it shouldn't be tapping like this.

It seems to be more pronounced when the motor is under load. IIRC, I don't think it does it as bad when the motor is cold.

I don't know what oil is in the motor, as it was changed by the dealer when I bought it. It is clean, however. The bike has 23,600 miles on it, and is an FLHP/I. No modifications have been made to the motor that I know of. I run 93 octane gas in the bike as well.

Any help would be appreicated. I haven't even made my first payment yet, and I seem to already be having problems.

Some tick more than others. It sucks, but for the most part there is nothing you can do about it. Sure, you can try some fixes, most commonly suggested is adding a Baisley spring to raise the oil pressure to the top end a bit. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't..........Basically, if it is running don't worry about it.:D

I don't know... A friend of mine has a 04 Road King Custom and his doesn't tap this bad. I spoke to a couple of different HD techs and they have told me the same thing, that they all do it. However, it just doesn't sound right...

What's this "Baisley Spring"? I would assume it is a different spring for the oil pump presuure regulator thingy... (I don't know much about air cooled motors, except for Volkswagens...)

You might try PM'ing Dawg, although he may not be checking in as much for the next few weeks. I think he posted an upgrade involving increasing the size of oil drain holes in the rocker arms or something like that. Supposed to increase lubrication on the top end. Mine ticks a little too, although more at idle than normal riding, and I've thought about doing this to see if it helps.

My 06 Ultra has a range where the valves clatter. Runs great but clatters under load until you get up to speed. I am running dino oil and may change to synth. I now have 33,000 miles. I will be interested in seeing what is said on this thread.

Sounds like pinging to me. Do you have a tuner on it?

Neonhommer, here's the link posted by Dawg about improving top end lubrication. I still have a hankering to try it.

Dawg: It's easier to pull the tanks on the 08's If you do pull the tank to remove the pushrods, then you might as well do the oil return trick like Doherty uses as explained HERE (http://www.box.net/shared/iztp78q8s4)

my 01 ultra clatters like a slant six dodge, ive replaced trashed stock cames with new take offs replaced cambearings, got screaming eagle adj pushrods which ill sell to any one who wants them for 75.00 and your stock pushrds, any way new lifters too. no improvement in noise actually got worse i can now hear the pushrods hitting the tubes, checked rocker to supports endplay rite at loose spec and i suspicion its what im hearing. it makes an audible clack when you push it towards the valve. so i plann to shim that up as soon as i get some gaskets an stock pushrods. will post back on results. I find it shamefull that this motor clatters more than my 82 shovel w 43k on it never opened up. trev.

I have gone through the same routine as shveltrev and many others. This winter I finally cleared most of the clatter by doing three things.

1.Pulled rocker cover and Checked side lash - ended up replacing front cylinder rocker arm support because of excessive side clearance. easy job and fairly cheap part.

2.After pulling both rocker covers I loosened the rocker arm supports and moved them as far as possible to the camshaft side before tightening. They moved a few thousandths.

3.Removed push rod and covers. Ground the upper inside lip with a dremel tool and small barrel sander. Opened it up maybe .050".

Sounds like a lot of work, but it can be done in an afternoons unless you need parts. Now there is some minor clicking but the marble in the valve box at 2500 rpm is gone. Took me three years to chase it down and I couldn't have done it without the collective advise from the forum. ---- tom

I took my lowers off cause i couldnt stand the amplified clatter, as an auto tech by trade the noise will drive my crazy. I also am goin to replace the compensater and sprockrt and chain as an assembly , the pri tensioner was layin on the bottem of case. I am amazed one of the screws didnt get sucked around the crank sprocket, the whole works took a beatingso for piece of mind im gonna just do it, sure do like ridinit though, the shovels so primative. everytime i switch back and forth it feels like i got a new bike. trev

Sounds like pinging to me.

+1

CN

The top of the push rod tubes are swedged to form the o-ring seat. The inside diameter is reduced because of this. The bottom part of this tube is 13.5 mm. I took a drill this size and drilled out the top which gave me the clearance I needed. I had the JIM's titanium pushrods and you could see that they were hitting the tube. This pops the pushrod out of the socket on the rocker and when it slams back in you get the tick. SE is now selling a tapered adjustable pushrod that should stop the problem. I can't believe it took this long to figure out the problem, and then to get the cure from HD. The aftermarket really blew this one. RevTech even makes tapered ones for the evo but not for the TC. Wake up people!!

ORIGINAL: kruzin

Sounds like pinging to me. Do you have a tuner on it?


No tuner... yet. Everything is stock. I run 93 octane gas in it. I have no idea what oil is in the engine. It was just changed when I bought it. A friend of mine was telling me to try running 50w oil in it. Given that we are in Florida, there shouldn't be any problems. Just kinda hard to find a 50w synthetic. (Was thinking on running Kendall 50wt in it.)

I got a itch now to crack the cam cover open to see if anything is amiss, but I really don't want to take the exhaust off to do it!

if you have the patience to got the bolts out of the cover you dont have to pull the exhaust ive done it twice. an allen wrench cut down real short helps.trev.

Get one of those mechanic's stethescopes, or at least a long handled screwdriver against the ear, and probe until you find the noise. The probe stethescope is better as you can tape it to the motor and ride it in case it's a "only on the road" engine noise. But you can hear, not only where the noise is coming from, but what the noise sounds like...

Beware, tho... my Evo was doing the same thing until last Saturday... I knew it was there, figured, hell, after the riding season I'd fix it.

Guess the damn bike heard me and decided, Kewl, the riding season ends... now! ha haha... The innocenttic became a clatter becane a scrapeychunky within a quarter mile.

Oh,it runs really well - but only on the rear barrel. Crap. and Ug.

I knew it was gonna happen, at least I was close to home. Unfortunately, the garage is a mess, the place I go to have work done is backed up 2-3 weeks, so she went ))gulp(( to the local dealershop... Hope they don't freak over the Andrews cams, the Branch heads, the EZ-in pushrods, etc...

I *think* it had stock barrels, tho... so if that's the case (hope hope) I'll have them reddone (make that replaced, by the sound of what went wrong I want to start anew)and not worry about *that* for a while.

Oh, bike had 42K on it. Low miles. Damn. HATE it when that happens...

Find where your tic is. Then you know if you have detonation, or valve tap, oran exhaust leak, ora conrod bearing waiting to make your trip across town an adventure...

Sus

I just returned from the 150 mile roundtrip to Leesburg Bikefest, and the motor did this tapping all the way there. Performance doesn't seem to be affected, but I would swear it's getting worse.

I notice it more around 2500 rpm, and have also noticed a bit of a whine, which almost sounds like a belt whine. However, it goes away when you pull the clutch in. I really don't notice the clatter/tap below 2000 rpm.

Now I am worried about riding this bike too far, as I don't want to cause major damage to the engine. The bike only has 24,000 miles on it, so I seriously hope there is no major engine problems. If it does, it's going to sit a long time until I can afford to rebuild the motor. (Out goes the 88, in goes the 103!).

I thought about running to a thicker oil. Thought about 50w Valvoline or Kendall GT-1...

I just broke out the redneck mechanic's stephescope (a wooden dowel I had laying around), and you can hear a definate "tap" or "click" coming from the rocker covers at idle.IIRC< motors with hydraulic lifters ARE NOT supposed to make this noise, as the lifter is supposed to take up the lash.

So, I wonder what the next step is?

Just my 2 cents but I changed to Lucas synthetic and my 04 RK is much quieter. I know its not technical but I read it in an oil thread here.

Werll mines been making this noise for 36,000 miles now and I dont sweat it anymore. Some days, like real humid days its worse, I figured it was the cooling fins on the heads. The motorcross motorcycles I rode when I was kid did the same thing. I am told my MANY Harley techs that its normal and dont worry about it. BTW, I use Royal Purple 20/50 eng., RP 75/90 in tranny, any RP 20/50 in primary. JUst ride it like you stole it.

Can't ride it like I stole it, cause I'm still payin for it!!!!

I changed my oil today to Valvoline Racing 50w, (it is grade SM, but NOT Energy Conserving), and it didn't seem to help. I didn't notice any metal shavings or powder on the magnet when I drained it, but didn't really see the oil as it drained.

I am really worried about this. I called the dealer today, and they are basically telling me "Oh Well". However, they did offer to let me buy a extended warranty. They will backdate it to when I bought the bike, and then I can bring it in to be looked at. It's $700 +tax for 1yr of warranty, and there is a $50 deductible everytime I bring it in. I think the warranty is a good idea, but $700 could be better spent elsewhere (on chrome goodies!)... Anyway, I have until Wednesday to decide if i want to or not.

More info... Popped the pushrod tubes off to check the pushrods. The front intake (I think, the pushrod closest to the intake port on the front cylinder.) pushrod spun really easy. No play, but really easy to spin with one finger. Others required a finger & thumb.

Anyway, the bike goes to the dealer on Friday. Anything I should tell them, request, or look out for? I am planning to mark down how many miles are on the bike, and to request to see any gaskets changed during inspection. If any parts are replaced, I am also going to ask to see them.

A lot of people reading, but no one writing.... reminds me of another thread I did on another board...

Anyway, took the bike over to the dealer yesterday. The service manager started by telling me the usual... TC88's sound like sewing machines... nothing they can do about it. However, he said he will still look into it, and said he will take it for a test ride. Says he will be gone for about 10-15 minutes as they go for 10 miles or so. He takes off, and comes back two minutes later, and goes right in the shop.

"I can't blame you for being concerned, it is making all kinds of racket, and it's not a light load noise either." (Or something to that effect.)

So, now I am waiting to see what they say. In the meantime, I have to drag the old Honda out and ride it if I want to ride anywhere. Sometimes I miss my old Honda...

Been reading and not writing but nothing to add except intrest. Please keep going with the updates.

ORIGINAL: neonhomer

More info... Popped the pushrod tubes off to check the pushrods. The front intake (I think, the pushrod closest to the intake port on the front cylinder.) pushrod spun really easy. No play, but really easy to spin with one finger. Others required a finger & thumb.





You did rotate the engine so the lifter was fully down (valve closed) before you checked each one didn't you? If you did not do that, you findings don't mean anything. Of course, to do this "check" you gotta wait a while after you shut the engine off to let the lifters bleed down.

I did that with the engine overnight cold. Yes, I pulled the plugs and rotated the motor to where both lifters were down (in compression stroke at TDC).

The dealer called me today... said the bike is ready. They had two guys go over it and they said they couldn't find anything wrong. I am assuming they didn't go into the motor, though. <Shrug? This noise is just driving me up the freakin wall. It makes the bike sound like crap.

I guess I am going to invest in a Bailey spring (if I can find one.. J&P sells some kind of spring for the TC88 that is supposed to increase oil pressure...), and maybe the adjustable pushrods. Maybe I can get rid of a majority of the noise. My next move is to try synthetic oil. Wonder if I can find 50w in a synthetic? Either that or it's Amsoil 20w50...


I had a thread on another board that went like this. It was about rebuilding roofs in popup campers. I just kept adding info and adding info with no one posting. It's now considered required reading when someone is considering redoing their roof in their popup!

My sporty has a lot of ticking at lower RPM's. I changed to Mobil 1 V-twin at the last oil change. It still has the ticking, but it's not as bad.

Well, went and got it back today. Still taps like a bitch. I don't know...

I did an oil change to 50w... I think the next step is to go to 20w50 synthetic and the spring. Either that or it's a swap to adjustable pushrods... Bad thing is if I do it myself, then it will void the warranty....

Y`know, it just dawned on me... The service manager said they were going to check my cam tensioners, and he never said anything about if they did or not...

Looks like I need to... but too afraid of pulling the exhaust... (never fails.. I pull an exhaust and break a stud...)

Can you pin point where the noise is coming from? Assume the oil level is okay. What do the spark plugs look like?

Cam tensoniers check is at 30,000 miles - this usually isn't a ticking noise.

Oil is okay, and fresh. 50w HD oil and filter. Spark plugs have 1000 miles on them, and are okay.

Sound is most noticable when riding, where it comes up from between the tank and windshield. When off the bike and at idle, it sounds like it is coming from the front rocker cover. No weird noises from the cam cover. Putting a mechanics stephescope up to the rocker cover you can hear a defined "click" in a rythym with the rpm of the motor, like there is excessive clearance in the valvetrain.

Unfortunatley, I can't seem to get a dealer to agree with me and go into the top end of the motor. Even to take the rocker covers off and check. I have the extended warranty, so they would get paid, but they all seem like they don't want to be bothered with working on my bike.

I'm to the point with mine i can live with the valve train noise, its the "Nugga nugga nockin noise it makes at around that 2500 rpm mystical point that these engines start ringin like a bell. mines stock marelli efi how do i even check the timing? the 2500 rpm knock gets quieter as the engine warms up leads me to believe its piston slapp or wrist pin? im glad i bought this bike cheap. thanks trev

Mine is quiet when it is cold... and gets worse as the motor warms up. So I stiil at a loss...

I fabbed up a "nastygram" to Harley to see if they can do anything, and I am not sure if I want to send it or not... I'll post a copy of it at the end of this post....

Another thing... I wonder if cutting back on the timing some would help? I do have a PCIII, but don't have it installed right now (sitting on my desk). The bike is all stock, so I haven't had it on except for when I went to Leesburg a few weeks ago. I saw a post somewhere about maybe cutting the timing back a few degrees might reduce the noise a little.

Anyway, here is my NastyGram.... (EDIT _ Crap... the spacing is messed up... I'm fixing it now for this post..)
_________________________________________

Date

My Address
Harley-Davidson Customer Service
3700 W. Juneau Avenue
Milwaukee, WI 53208

To Whom It May Concern:

I recently purchased a 2004 Harley-Davidson Road King motorcycle (FLHP/I) from Gator Harley-Davidson in Leesburg, Florida on April 5th, 2008. The bike had 24,000 miles on it, and looked to be in good shape. Me and a friend (who owns a 2004 Road King Custom) drove from my home in Edgewater, FL (just south of Daytona Beach, or about 150 mile round trip) to purchase the bike. Once there, I test drove the bike, and noticed that the bike made a clattering sound which seemed to come from the top end of the motor. The salesman said that it was likely bad gas, and a good tank of premium fuel would quiet the motor down.

Well, after ten tanks of 93 octane fuel, the noise has not gone away. In fact, it has gotten worse. I took it back to Gator Harley for them to investigate the problem. The service manager test rode the bike, and said he could hear the noise I was describing, and would get it in to be looked at. I was called the next day, and was told the bike was ready. I was also told that two technicians listened to the bike and could not hear the noise. I was told I would just have to live with it, and that it is a common noise.

The noise is still there. The motor sounds like a cross between a worn out sewing machine and a Volkswagen that has not had the valves adjusted in a while. This is not my first motorcycle, but my third, with my first two being Hondas. This is however, my first V-twin and my first Harley. I have ridden other Harleys, and I have yet to ride a stock Harley that sounds like this. I am a fairly good back yard mechanic, doing my own automotive and motorcycle repairs and maintenance for over 15 years. The noise in this motor sounds like there is excessive clearance in the valve train. The Twin Cam motor has hydraulic lifters, and should not make such a noise. The hydraulic lifter runs at zero clearance (lash), and should not have any play. However, I unable to get a Harley tech to go into the top end of the motor under warranty to check the problem, even though the bike is covered under warranty. (I purchased a one-year extended service plan for the bike.) From what I understand, no tech will go into the motor under warranty until there is a component failure. A component failure could result in the motor locking up, and a subsequent locking of the rear wheel. This could lead to an accident!

I am paying upwards of $15,000 for this motorcycle, and believe it should not make noises like this. The bike is just sitting at my home, because I am afraid to ride it and do damage to the motor, voiding the extended service plan. I purchased this motorcycle to ride and enjoy it, not for it to sit because the motor might damage itself. The noise is most noticeable at around 2500 RPM in a cruise condition (light throttle, level road). The noise seems to go away as the engine drops to around 2000 RPM. Accelerating beyond 2500 RPM just increases the noise until the exhaust noise covers it up.

What I would

Mine has made noise that I have managed to quiet down some. My sugestions:

A good tune for rideability I think helps. Balances the cylinders. This would help bottom end noise. Knocking

Make sure the pushrod tubes are claranced at the top. I think there is touching here sometime. Tapping

I notice Doc, I think it is him, recommendes (Florida). Red Line 20-60 oil. I like Amsoil and will start, at least in the Summer, adding 1 qt- 60 wt to the oil fill, 20-50 the rest. Redline 20-60 is simpler though. I just happen to have Amsoil around.

I think Redline Primary is a little light for the new sprokets and now use,, 1/2 R/L primary oil and 1/2R/L MT-90. All these are OK for wet clutches and are gear oils. Better shear.

I run RedLine Harley transmission ShockProof Oil which isthe Heavy I think. 5th gear is still noisy below 50 MPH. With this bike 5th gear is useable below 40 but too noisy. No sugestions here anymore gotta live with it.

I do have a Zippers oil relief spring.

By the way I will not hesitate to mix oil. What do you think the oil manufactures do? Blend here, Blend there. I do keep the purposes together though. Gotta have a plan.

So far with 90 degree days I have not seen above 220 F after a long ride.

im gonna bump this back to the top. if a guy could get good at diagnosing these noises he'd be a god.
Ive had 2 indys look at my bike the 1st bless his heart is deaf as a board. from too many years of riding with no ear plugs. the other guy took one look ssaid"that bike is Morelli injected i dont want to work on it!" i do most most of my own wrenchin im a auto tech by trade but an accurate diagnoses sure helps my wallet.I am about convionced its a pinging / detonation issue. i dont know she said we'll ride it till it blows and build a 110' damn i love this girl. thanks trev

That's about how I feel right now. Ride it till it croaks, then go for a 110 or the like.....

Something I read elsewhere on the site, someone said something about taking out 7 degrees of timing from 20% up and 2000 rpm and up... Think it would make a difference? (I have a PCIII for the bike, just don't have it installed because the bike is still stock.)

that's why we install louder pipes. lol if you going to stay dino oil try drain out a quart and replace it with lucas oil treatment the 1 in the white bottle it is thisck so it might quieter her down a little

O the 2500 rpm clatter.
I have been told they all have it. Mine dose and I have chased it and can' get no satisfaction. My newest revision is the only thing stock and original is my lower cases and trans case all the guts are new. When Did my 95 " upgrade I got a set of new takeoff heads and ported them. new take off rockers and lifters. I put in a set of Woods tw6 cams and adjustable pushrods you guessed it still have the clatter. I put up with it for four years. I wanted to change the set up this winter and built it into a 103. I use a set of 07 take off heads 0 miles ported them new springs Tp rocker boxes and roller rockers. I put in gear drive cams and fueling super pump and delkron cam plate. I have 55 pounds of oil pressure running 35 at idle. All that and the clatter found its way into this mix. You are dealing with a engine who's parts are like a small block Chev in a aluminum aircooled case. Hydraulic lifters wont take away the noise that is not dampened by the engine mass.

lesson learned here; i'd take the time and pull the cam cover. check out the piss poor tension shoe material to be safe.

About the 2500 rpm clatter, I also have it in my 06 Road Glide. I've found that if I short shift it (that is, shift it at around 2000 rpm) for the first 15 minutes or so while riding it, that clatter is gone the rest of the day. Strange but true. I've been chasing this problem since new!
Gary D.

you want to quiet it down put a set of billet rocker covers on it. My buddy put some billlet rocker covers on his and it is dead silent. They are thicker and muffle the noise.

I am actually suprised these motors are not louder considering all the moving parts and all the metal on metal baning around. You got pushrods and rocker arms right under your butt and virtually nothing to muffle the noise. Most current bikes have water jackets etc to damping the noise.

OK, You likely have a lifter that is having a hard time staying pumped up, I replace lifters in my bikesat 20,000 miles regardless.This is a very simple procedure. Once completed go back to 20/50 oil. Your dealer likely knows exactly what the problem is but does not want tot perform a service that doesn't pay, so, they will wait until there is catistrophic failure and there is more money in the warranty work. Change your lifters and you will fix the problem.(this is my diagnosis only, and don't want to hear any **** from anyone with a different opinion. Good Luck.Kevin.

HARELY DAVIDSON = SHAKE ,RATTLE and ROLL !!! How sweet the sound ! Just ride baby just ride !!
Tj

shim the rockers

Im still ridin and it still clatters. this coming weekend we are goin camping and pullin the trailer for the 1st time. when we get home top end comes off.will a pcIII allow me to adjust timing on a morelli injection system?so many questions so little time and money! thanks trev

ORIGINAL: shoveltrev

Im still ridin and it still clatters. this coming weekend we are goin camping and pullin the trailer for the 1st time. when we get home top end comes off.will a pcIII allow me to adjust timing on a morelli injection system?so many questions so little time and money! thanks trev




Is your bike a 99? if so have you had the outer cam bearings replaced to the roller upgrade? Possible rear outer cam bearing failing.

yea its an 01. so for ive done cams bearings lifters tensioners. next week i do the compensater, slider, nut, and primary sprocket and chain, while we are in it i'm gonna shim the rockers, and put stock push rods in it, I sure wish i could find a morelli wizard some where, maybe Ill have to become one:eek: thanks trev

Well, I sent my nastygram to HD... let's see what results or the lack of, it gathers...

Took my bike up to a Dynojet shop to have my PCIII USB's firmware upgraded, and I mentioned to one of the techs about my problem, and he was saying it could be piston slap.... great......

Well, I got a call from HD today. Pretty much, they told me if I want to take it to a dealer to have them go through it, but if they don't find anything wrong with it, then I am liable for the charges.

So either I have to sabotage the motor (any ideas) or just wait until the motor grenades. I am fed up with this thing. I am about ready to put this thing up for sale and start riding my Honda again.

Post up a video clip of said noise...

I keep forgetting. Bad thing is the noise is more pronounced when riding. It seems the harder you turn the motor, the worst it gets.

I will try to do it this weekend. Out of town right now...

My 05 clatters like a bieotch-much more than my 02 did. The 02 was a stage1 whereas my 05 is a stage2 95". The noise seems to come and go at various rpm ranges much like a loose lifter. Even my friend could hear it ridingbeside me.I put Mobile1 V-Twin and that seemed to help ever so slightly. I checked the cam specs and the pushrods, but they are not adjustable. However, the cams don't require adjustable pushrods. I most recently added 1/2qt of the Lucas syn oil additive and that quieted it down quite a bit. It's now about the same as my 02 was. Let me point out that I have put over 7k miles on it since I bought it 11 months ago and have banged on it pretty hard. My friend has a 05 SE Ultra 103, stage1 with PC and we run 0-110, dead even the whole way. I think some of the previous posts may have nailed it with shimming the rockers for side play and checking for the head casting for the pushrods rubbing the opening. BrianTTM has mucho experience building all sorts of engine combos.

Regardless of what the problem is, I still think the dealer should fix it, or at least look at the problem. The "We can't hear anything." is a cop-out.... I was pretty much told by the selling dealer's service manager to "enjoy it if you can, and ride it until it blows."

If I personally have to go into that motor, I am going to be pissed. Then I am going to take plenty of pictures and send copies to both the selling dealer AND the MoCo...

as a ase certified auto tech i got lots of cool tools, one of those is a Steelman chassis ear. its 6 microphones mounted in alligater clips a control box allowing u to switch what mike your listening to through headphones, i rigged this thing up on my bike and rode it it around listening to various stuff. I have 4 distinct noises. They are 1. the rockers are making noise definate side clearance issue. 2. the pusrods on the rear intake and front exhaust is hitting the tubes. 3. the pistons are slapping, they are short skirted and this noise diminishes as the bike warms up,4. the compensater is knocking. got all new parts for this excpt the front sprocket. when i get every thing lined up parts wise i think i can eliminate all these noises except the piston slap. @ 40000 miles i can live with that.the ride it till it blows theory is hard to swallow. i know these noises drive me nuts and i dont care that other twin cams clatter too, Ive heard plenty that dont. moral of the story is Im glad i only have 8 grand in this ultra. and i can turn the stereo up!thanks trev

The noise is becoming distracting. I find myself listening more to the motor than relaxing and enjoying the ride.

I rode it home today from Daytona, and took the highway. Running 80MPH at 3500 RPM for 20 miles, and then getting on surface streets really makes this noise stand out. I could have sworn I head a slight knock when I pulled into Home Depot to pick up something. Yet, when I got back out, I didn't hear it.

I guess I am going to have to tear the top end of the motor apart myself and find out what is up. Everybody says to shim the rockers. I have no idea what that is. I am fairly sure the pushrods aren't rubbing anything, as I popped the tubes off the other day and didn't feel them dragging on anything.

Is a retired cop bike?&nbsp\\;\\\\\\; Just wondering....I ride one at work.&nbsp\\;\\\\\\; I wouldn't want mine after it was taken outta service.:D

Yep... retired from Marion County SO I believe.... Was turned in around 14k. 2nd owner put 10k on it... now I have it...

I did a video with my cell phone, but the sound quality sucks on it. It's too dark to break out the digital camera and do a video with it. I don't have a video camera.

Either that or I have to break out the laptop, microphone, and Adobe Audition.


Anyway, get this thing around 3,000 on the highway, and the noise gets worse. I am waiting for the motor to self-destruct....

http://www.neonhomersdomain.com/images/100_0382.avi

Video in DiVX format... kinda loud...

New development... I picked up a set of SE CVO catalyst mufflers from ebay a few weeks ago. Put them on and my exhaust got really quiet. I didn't realize it until a few minutes later that the noise in the top end also got way quieter. Now I am really starting to wonder if there is something wrong with the valvetrain or not.

&nbsp\\;\\\\\\; I was going to ask for noise help also when I came upon your story. I have almost the same noise except mine raps when it is hot and it is especially noticeable at idle, if you shut the bike off for 5 minutes and then restart it the noise is barley noticeable but as it warms up those last few degrees it starts to rap. Last year I replaced everything from the lifters to the rockers and it still rapped then I pulled the rear head as that is where I had not been yet, well I found a valve guide that was chewed up causing the valve to stick, I had to drive the valve out with a hammer. So I installed a fresh head and guess what- you guessed it the noise is still there. I am now thinking about pulling the cams again to see if the lobe that was on the stickey valve is flat or damaged. As I said again I had the cams out last year and saw nothing. My other thought is a wrist pin or piston slap as it is most pronounced when hot&nbsp\\;\\\\\\;.If anybody has any suggestions please lets hear them.This is also an 04 Electra Glide 10,000 miles

I Have heard that it could also be piston slap. From what I was told, Police bikes are "ridden hard and put up wet". The noise is just plain annoying.

Get around 3,000 plus on the highway and it really starts to show itself. Oh well.. if the motor lets go while I'm doing 70-80, it's going to be a wild ride to the end...

when i begin to diagnose a mechanical problem...i start simple, keeping in mind all the things i remember from past experiences....if its tic'n or tap'n, i try to figg'r out where, how loud, when it does it, &amp\\; does it matter....with all the responses and experience here....i'd look at the pushrods hitt'n the tubes, adjust the rocker stand, shim the rocker, set the lash correclty, seal the exhaust, tune the bike &amp\\; use amsoil or lucas....i'd do all those before thinkin its terminal....piston slap to me happens when its cold, due to poor warm up procedure, so if it gets worse at heat then i doubt thats the cause....its in the stack tolerances of the valvetrain....tighten em up

For some reason, every time I see that signature pic, I have to go back and look...

Think I am going to go w/ the adjustable pushrods. Can get the pushrods themselves for $100 or w/ the tubes (I think) for $125 from my HD dealer.

A while back, I checked (to the best of my ability w/o removing the heads and such) the pushrods to see if they were hitting anything, and I couldn't find anything.

As for "setting the rocker stand" I have no idea. Also have no idea on shimming the rockers. I asked about it eariler in this post and no one responded. Maybe I need to read my FSM again.

Have a 2007 King w/103 big bore kit, V&amp\\;H 2 into 1 Pro Pipe and tuner.&nbsp\\; Have stock heads.&nbsp\\; my engine has always sounded like it was going to grenade and the dealer finally replaced the lifters (I suspect just to shut me up) but it still sounds like it will blow up any minute.&nbsp\\; Has anyone had the problem with the 96 inch?
&nbsp\\;

[sm=feedback.gif]&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\; C'mon, any feedback on the 96 inch?????

I pulled mine down today, rear jug, piston and cams and nothing shows any sign of wear or rubbing. The stacking that was mentioned is interesting but I have not seen this mentioned in the shop manual also I tried the adjustable push rods and that did not help.One place that I do see a little wear is in the oil pump bushing so I may change that. So has anybody got any ideas of what else to look at ????

Nope... the service manager at the dealer where I bought the bike said the 96's and bigger make even more noise than the 88's..

Anyway, I ordered the Baisley spring today. Fun part is going to be putting it in... (That's another thread)

neonhomer&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\; Im paying for mine and still ride it like my girlfreinds husband that I stole it from is behind me with gun in hand.
&nbsp\\; In my opion if the noise isnt getting worst and its running good dont sweat it.These are mechanical peices and they make some noise natrurally.

i just replaced the compensater, nut, slider, and ssprocket on my 01 ultra. still clatters. im now done. we are going to ride to sturgis 2up pullin the trailer. i dont think its gonna let go but shes still noisey. god i love that stereo. thanks trev.

If you dont want Noise Dont Buy A HD. Ride it, work on, and hear it ,and work on somemore. Just how it is. I have about $10,000 in my Motor and it ticks so bad I cant stand it but hey its a Harley Ride til it Breaks and Fix it and Ride it somemore.

I have mine torn down and I have checked everything possible and the only thing thst I found out of spec is the crank support bushing located in the cam support plate so I will replace that as it should have .001 clearance and has .006 which is quite loose so hopefully this will cure the problem.

G@@D NEWS:
&nbsp\\;&nbsp\\; I got my engine back togeather and the rap is gone, the only thing that I did was install and properly fit a new crank support bushing, as I said mine had .006 which is out of spec. I reamed the new one to .001 clearance and that did it.

2001 FLHTCUI, mine has that tapping noise, but not as loud as it did.&nbsp\\; After replacing the lifters, oil pump, cam plate and tensioners and put in SE203 cams the tapping is very quiet.&nbsp\\; Still there, but not as loud.

I have an 05 electraglide with the same noise. This is my first harley and with only 25000 mile I think it sounds like a piece of junk. I got it new and it has been taken care of and broke in properly. The "thats just the way they are answer" sure doesn't compell me to ever want to buy another Harley. I think I'll look at a Wing for the next one

Well I thought I had it fixed, rather I did for about 600 miles. We went on a vacation for a week and rode about 2500 miles and gradually the noise came back to where it is every bit as bad as before. I'm really getting pissed with the dealers and their rag-ass excuses about HD motor noise. Although I have one dealer that agrees that it is not right. Now what we are hearing as well as the rap is a lot of top end valve train noise (EXCESSIVE) and the noise is absolutely loudest in the rear center of the rear rocker box cover, a blind man with a cane could pin point it. The only thing that is original is the cam and oil pump assembly, so do I gamble and dump another $500 in it or what ? ? ? ? ? ? I don't mind doing the work but it is getting frustrating when nothing helps, especially as loud as it is you would think it would be obvious. Somebody please shoot me some ideas, I'm willing to try about anything.

I have tamed the noise beast. I have fought all the same noises that everyone has been told to be normal.I was thinking If my motor lasts through the summer I was going to tear it down this winter and start over. I was reading a post and was tipped off how bad harley lifters really are. Most HD mechanics will agree if they are off record. It turns out the original lifters designed for the twin cam engine was designed and built by Johnson Hy lift. They were used in 99 and 2000. In 01 Harley switched to Delphi ( GM ) small block chev lifters ( the A lifter). Then in 04 to a upgrade chev lifter ( the B lifter) Most mechanics these lifters last about 30,000 max.
After reading about this I found my old 99 lifters with over 30,000 on them and put them in. I would say about 90% of the clatter is gone. I did nothing else. Prior to installing them I took one of all three sets of lifters apart to check the differences. The A lifter had the smallest Hydraulic piston inside and a crude looking valve system inside the B was built the same with a slightly larger piston inside the Johnson Hylift originals had a much larger piston and a much more refined valve inside. The article I had read that AMS has re introduced a more refined Johnson Hylift for the twin cam engines. I ordered a set of these new lifters yesterday. With with ups ground shipping total cost just over 106.00 for a set.

Thanks for the info. it sure makes sense. I went to their web site and they explain how HD wound up with the lousey lifters. So I called them and ordered a set also. Their web site also explains why my 2000 does not have this problem as they went to the Chev lifters late in 2001. I would also bet that is why the dealers say that it is normal because they are all noisey after 2001 and some are probably worse than others so it may be " normal " but it's certainly not " right "

STAY TUNED ! ! ! ! ! !

Hi I am not braggin but my 02 TC88 has no mechanical souds other than explosions/exhaust. Hope mothing is worng with it. but wait I am a 61 year old Dyno operator maybe I just can't hear. I have lots of hours listening to 800 hp engines and smaller ones to. Anyhow ticking and clicking isn't really right there is someting that needs attention. rocker shafts OK? are there any marks on the spark plug electrodes? cam bearing in one piece? done

I had taken my bike into a dealer for the same noise issue,told it was normal.
Well next sat I'm dropping the bike off at another dealer to have the shift shaft seal replace under warranty.Going to have them check out the valve noise also.
The bike has 30000 miles.
It will be interesting to hear what they say.
I'm worried about them saying the tensioners are worn,although the noise is from the top end.If they say the tensioners are shot I will have them replacesd IF COVERED.If not I will cancel the warranty and take the bike to an indy for a 95" or 103" upgrade
and get geared cams.

I have had this motor apart several times looking for ANYTHING abnormal, and I have found nothing that was even close to being out of spec. other than the crank support bushing located in the cam support plate. So at this point $106 is nothing and I talked to the people that sell the replacement lifters and they knew exactly what I was talking about and told me what HD had done and when they did it and the time line fits perfectly, so we'll know by the end of the week ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? BTW I am also 61 with poor hearing, maybe to much Viet Nam, jet engines and HP cars,

Well I dumped another $$106 into this pig and the rap is still there and I am completely lost for ideas I feel like I have poured too much $$$ into this hopeless project and NOTHING to show for it but more frustration, maybe it's time to dump and run.

I got mine today I have to say I was hoping for more. I took one apart to compare with what I had seen with the 99 lifters. The inner piston is smaller than the original lifters but slightly larger than the B lifter. The valving is similar but dose not have the same machined look to it.

I went with new B lifters and new stock rocker arms and supports in my 01 with 33000. Quieted it down a lot.

I pulled it down again and this time it looks like there is an issue with the cam lobe for the rear exhaust valve, it shows a bad wear pattern on the lobe ramps, it looks and feels like there is a dip in the ramp rather than a smooth curvature. This might be something as the noise seems to be coming from something related to the rear exhaust valve ani it's moving parts. If you listen to the noise it is definitely coming from the rear half of the rear rocker box which is where the exhaust valve and rocker assy. is located. But at this point I am not making any more predictions as I have been wrong thus far.

Your best bet at this point is to retrofit the engine with the roller chain hydraulic system. It eliminated the tapping noise in my 2000 R/K. Expensive but worth it to me and you get a better set of cams.

Listened to the video and feel it's one valve unit making the noise. This can be insufficiant preload on the lifter and as it heats up it's basically a solid with clearance. An adjustable rod is needed to varify if in fact the oem pushrod is delivering the required length for preload. It can be a lifter that's not holding and leaking down too fast. Could be a bad lobe on the cam causing a double hit not allowing the lifter to charge up before opening the valve. Could be excessive rocker side play. Sounds from video such at the best of times but I feel it's one only in the engine. Find that one and track it from the lobe to the rocker. There was some mention on you had checked the pushrods for play and one was looser than the rest. Start there. It's a process of elimination. The new SE tapered pushrods will help eliminate oem adjustment and rule out at least one possibility. Lose the dealer and find some indy that knows engines. For what it's worth any engine with hydraulics should be silent, and most are. The ones that are not can be made to be. It all depends on the guy holding the wrench. From what I heard, it's not piston slap, but sound recordings are not great. If you want to know for sure if it's a piston, pull one plug wire at a time and rev the engine. If the sound goes away by doing this it's the piston slap, if it remains it's not.
Ron

What video did you listen to ? ? ? ? I don't see one listed anyehere.

What video did you listen to ? ? ? ? I don't see one listed anyehere.
This is the one I listened to from his post.

http://www.neonhomersdomain.com/images/100_0382.avi
Ron

Grasping at straws I rolled the push rods on a marble cuounter top and one of the intakes is not perfectly straight it has about .010 bend if you hold one end down.

.010 wouldn't cause any problems. 1/8-1/4" would be reason for concern.
Ron

Donnie Peterson has an artical in AIM mag two issues back about noise and adjusting lifters. Stout springs agravate this at valve closing. Also these cilenders are way not stock.
My engine has been noisey and I knew springs and the cylinders might be the issues. My lifters call for 3 turns down but he says 4.5 turnes. My bike got quite. So far so good. Actually went 4.25 turns, baby steps.
I think the cylinders were growing longer that the stock lifter adjustment could handle with these springs, so, clatter,clatter. These are Fueling lifters.
Another thing to think about.

I spent hours searching different forums and other resources yesterday and this doesn't seem like an isolated problem and just about everybody tracked it down to valve trane noise originating anywhere from the cam bearings to the valve springs. So today I ordered the cam upgrade set-up from HD which consists of a complete new cam assembly and oil pump, I have already changed everything else from the head back to the cams "including the head" so if this doesn't do it I give up.

On that above I may be wrong. Cylinders inside are cast iron more or less. Pushrods are steal. I think steel expands more that cast iron. Course cylinders are hotter than pushrods. I don't know I get confused.
When it gets cooler I'm going to check out these limited travel lifters.

This is the one I listened to from his post.

http://www.neonhomersdomain.com/images/100_0382.avi
Ron

Crap... that's what that video was on my server... I took it down!!!! DOH!!! I will have it back up in about 10 minutes.

As for my noise... it's still there... Funny thing though.. I put on a set of quieter pipes (CVO Catalyst) and the damn noise goes almost completely away... WTF?

My new cam kit will be in tomorrow morning so I will install it after noon, half of me is anxious and the other half is scared as I don't know what I am going to do if this doesn't fix it. All that is left is the bottom end ! ! ! !

Roller chain conversion worked for me. Good luck.

I just ordered a set of SE 203's. Now I have to secure the tools to do it (chain tensioner removal tool, cam remover tools, bolt cutters, etc) and the extra parts (gaskets, bearings, new tensioners, new lifters, new pushrods).

Well the new cam assy is installed and so far so good, I took it for a fifty mile shake down cruise and there is no rap as before but the way things have been going I hate to call it a success quite yet.

Well the new cam assy is installed and so far so good, I took it for a fifty mile shake down cruise and there is no rap as before but the way things have been going I hate to call it a success quite yet.


Atta Boy!

Interesting thread. I have a loud arse noise under load as well and this gives me some things to go on.