Hot an Bothered!!
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Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 6:21:05 AM
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fatboy4ever
Posts: 156
Joined: 3/16/2006
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I have an 06 Fatboy that is running hot and I am not sure what to do. Today for instance, I was in heavy stop & go traffic (for about an hour). . . air temp around 50F, and the bike was running around 255 (digital guage temp). I am not running synethetic, because the HD service manager steered me away from it, but I am having second thoughts. Only mods are V&H staggered and (remapped) and I am running w/o baffles.
Once the traffic cleared and I got to work, I checked the temp again (225F) . . . so here is my question(s). . . what damage can occur by runnning the bike at this temp?? I know that the Heat Managment System will kick on, but is this too late? Also, will an air cooler be enough? I was told by the service department not to waste my money, and that HD's just run hot! I know that 230 is normal, but in cool CT weather I would guess that my oil would be cooler!!
Any help would be appreciated!
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"Be not afraid of going slowly, be only afraid of standing still" - Confucious
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 9:29:24 AM
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Airywhisler
Posts: 1407
Joined: 3/6/2008
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Temp gauges are not that accurate, give relative temps and each one can vary, just something else to worry about, throw it away, put your old dipstick in there, check/change oil regularly and RIDE. Seriously, your temps seem to be normal for the type of riding you were experiencing.
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"''IN GOD WE TRUST"
06 Heritage Classic
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 10:45:25 AM
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Merlin
Posts: 395
Joined: 1/23/2006
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I had many issues with overheating with my scoot. It was constant. 90-100 degrees stopped traffic stuff. Poor thing would shake like a virgin on the verge. I put in a HD Super Premium oil cooler and Mobil 1 V-twin. The overheating issues are completely gone. So bikes overheat and others don't. Dino oil breaks down at 250 degrees and Syn breaks down at 300 degrees. Syn runs cooler in my scoot by 30-50 degrees. If you are going to keep your bike do it.
_____________________________
03 Silver/Black Road Glide
SERT, SE 203 & SE 95" Flats
.030 Cometic gasket, Lyndall Brakes
CHUBBY® Wild1 WO517 BARS
V&H True Duals with SE II Slip Ons
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 2:31:01 PM
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fatboy4ever
Posts: 156
Joined: 3/16/2006
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Thanks for the advice and the link . . . I like the setup that Quigley linked me too, and I agree the digital guages are a piece of !@#$. I am going to switch to synthetic at next oil change to see if that helps. Question, if I switch over to synthetic can I go back if I don't like it? I know this is proably stupid question, but I wanted to ask.
Thanks
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"Be not afraid of going slowly, be only afraid of standing still" - Confucious
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 2:33:08 PM
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KBFXDLI
Posts: 8071
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Cleveland, Ohio USA
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Skip the cooler for now. Just try some Amsoil MCV 20w50 or Mobil1Vtwin 20w50 or Redline 20w50 or Royal Puple 20w50. Then put some 75w90 syn gear lube in your trans (made by any of those) and you should notice enough of a difference. I have always noticed about a 20 degree drop using syn oils.
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06 FXDLI
Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. Sam Adams
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 2:34:03 PM
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KBFXDLI
Posts: 8071
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Cleveland, Ohio USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fatboy4ever
Thanks for the advice and the link . . . I like the setup that Quigley linked me too, and I agree the digital guages are a piece of !@#$. I am going to switch to synthetic at next oil change to see if that helps. Question, if I switch over to synthetic can I go back if I don't like it? I know this is proably stupid question, but I wanted to ask.
Thanks
Yes, you can switch back but most people don't.
_____________________________
06 FXDLI
Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. Sam Adams
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 3:46:37 PM
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quigley
Posts: 94
Joined: 4/20/2006
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Just my opinion, but the cost of bikes these days makes an oil cooler cheap insurance and cant hurt.
Quigley
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/6/2008 4:10:19 PM
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bear95252
Posts: 220
Joined: 6/27/2006
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Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It?
First off, all oil breaks down. That generally will include basestocks and additives. Without focusing on performance characteristics, the most significant difference from one oil to another is how quickly breakdown occurs. Although there are many factors that contribute to the breakdown of an oil, heat is one of the most important. Depletion and decreased effectiveness of oil additives is also important, but that will be discussed later.
Petroleum oil begins to break-down almost immediately. A high quality synthetic, on the other hand, can last for many thousands of miles without any significant reduction in performance or protection characteristics. Synthetics designed from the right combination of basestocks and additives can last almost indefinitely with the right filtration system.
As alluded to above, the first major difference between petroleum and synthetic oil is heat tolerance. Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons.
The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 degrees F is the absolute MINIMUM to prevent possible high consumption.
Today's engines are expected to put out more power from a smaller size and with less oil than engines of the past. Therefore, the engines run much hotter than they used to. That puts an increased burden on the oil.
Even the best petroleum oils will have flash points only as high as 390 and 440 degrees F. Some actually have flashpoints as low as 350 degrees. For today's hot running engines, this is not nearly enough protection. Just about any synthetic you come across will have a flashpoint over 440 degrees. Premium synthetics can have flashpoints over 450 degrees with some even reaching as high as 500 degrees. That's a big difference.
As a result, I think that it's quite obvious that these high- tech oils offer a substantial benefit when it comes to potential breakdown due to burn-off. Nevertheless, even though synthetics are MUCH less prone to burn-off than are petroleum oils, there is still some burn-off during extremely high temperature operation.
Thus, it becomes important to discuss the manner in which petroleum and synthetic oils burn off. As a refined product, petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. Thus, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller, lighter molecules begin to burn off first.
Since the ash content in many petroleum oils is higher than synthetics, deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. Detergent and dispersant additives are used to keep these deposits to a minimum, but only so much can be done. Unless you're changing a petroleum oil every 2,000 to 3,000 miles some deposits are going to be left behind.
In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem.
Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the nearly the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind.
Moreover, many synthetics have very low ash content and little if any impurity. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there is little or no ash left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces. Obviously, this leads to a cleaner
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/7/2008 10:16:44 AM
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Merlin
Posts: 395
Joined: 1/23/2006
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Ok so there you have it.
Syn Oil
Oil cooler
Oil cooler w/fan
Have you seen this?
http://www.hdforums.com/fb.asp?m=2594927
_____________________________
03 Silver/Black Road Glide
SERT, SE 203 & SE 95" Flats
.030 Cometic gasket, Lyndall Brakes
CHUBBY® Wild1 WO517 BARS
V&H True Duals with SE II Slip Ons
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/9/2008 6:36:23 AM
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Dsanchez
Posts: 662
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: My Mom
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...not to split hairs...especially since I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. I run Amsoil and can tell a diff with my 07. However, the statement that an oil cooler can't hurt isn't 100% true...you do need to have a minimum operating temp for the oil...I think its 180 degrees. So...you'd want to be able to by-pass the cooler during colder ambient temps.
Just sayin...
_____________________________
07 FLHTC
PC III USB/ V&H Ovals/ SEAC w/K&N0800/ IDS/ Amsoil 20-50
WHAT'S CRACKIN' PIMP ?
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/9/2008 9:14:48 AM
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Merlin
Posts: 395
Joined: 1/23/2006
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In my case the HD Super Premium oil cooler 62895-03B has a thermostat.
< Message edited by Merlin -- 5/9/2008 9:30:02 AM >
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/9/2008 9:19:47 AM
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quigley
Posts: 94
Joined: 4/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dsanchez
...not to split hairs...especially since I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. I run Amsoil and can tell a diff with my 07. However, the statement that an oil cooler can't hurt isn't 100% true...you do need to have a minimum operating temp for the oil...I think its 180 degrees. So...you'd want to be able to by-pass the cooler during colder ambient temps.
Just sayin...
\
With any oil cooler you need to use a thermostat
Quigley
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/9/2008 10:02:06 AM
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bdn56
Posts: 357
Joined: 4/2/2007
From: Banks, Alabama
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I had the same reply from the local HD service manager. Syn oil was a waist of money. We have had a few days in the mid to upper 80's so far, my oil pressure drops to about 5 psi, the engine idle drops and the bike starts the vibrations. Makes me wonder about the synthetic oils. My next change will be to a synthetic.
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1975 KZ1 900 ( I survived)
2007 ULTRA CLASSIC
YOU CAN''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''T TAKE IT WITH YOU, CAN YOU?
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/9/2008 5:08:47 PM
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Dsanchez
Posts: 662
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: My Mom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quigley
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dsanchez
...not to split hairs...especially since I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. I run Amsoil and can tell a diff with my 07. However, the statement that an oil cooler can't hurt isn't 100% true...you do need to have a minimum operating temp for the oil...I think its 180 degrees. So...you'd want to be able to by-pass the cooler during colder ambient temps.
Just sayin...
\
With any oil cooler you need to use a thermostat
Quigley
OR a manual bypass valve.
_____________________________
07 FLHTC
PC III USB/ V&H Ovals/ SEAC w/K&N0800/ IDS/ Amsoil 20-50
WHAT'S CRACKIN' PIMP ?
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/9/2008 5:10:20 PM
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Dsanchez
Posts: 662
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: My Mom
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bdn56
I had the same reply from the local HD service manager. Syn oil was a waist of money. We have had a few days in the mid to upper 80's so far, my oil pressure drops to about 5 psi, the engine idle drops and the bike starts the vibrations. Makes me wonder about the synthetic oils. My next change will be to a synthetic.
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I don't understand how anyone could claim its a waste of money in an air cooled engine. It doesn't break down like dino oil. It protects your expensive investment and allows it to run cooler.
_____________________________
07 FLHTC
PC III USB/ V&H Ovals/ SEAC w/K&N0800/ IDS/ Amsoil 20-50
WHAT'S CRACKIN' PIMP ?
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/10/2008 9:21:52 AM
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twiceretired
Posts: 151
Joined: 5/25/2007
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Yesterday my boy and I chased each other through the mountains for 250 miles. I was pushing pretty hard, keeping the tach between 4 and 5K, and really hammering through the gears. I stopped to check just once, and for the second time in the bike's life (a 2007 Deuce) I peaked out at 230 degrees. That's the hottest I've ever gotten it to, and I don't baby it. I would NEVER consider anything but a good synthetic.
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RE: Hot an Bothered!! - 5/14/2008 9:26:51 AM
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Curt J
Posts: 177
Joined: 10/16/2007
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People been bangin through the mountains for years on Dino. Just ran 2,861 miles in 6 days and 1/3 of it was the Blue Ridge, Skyline Drive and Deals Gap. Ran most of this stuff at 3-5,000 rpms the balance was interstate at 75-90. No problems and all on Dino. You don't have to run these engines on synthetic, they been running for 100 years on fossil oil. If you live in Death Valley or Phoenix and change oil every 7,000 miles that's a different story. Just change it frequently and run em. (The new 96/6 may be an exception. From what I am hearing/reading, they run very hot).
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"Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did. So throw off the bowlines, Explore. Dream. Discover". Mark Twain 1879
Curt J
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