my 80 shovel has a 4 speed trans with a rotary top, Iam having shifting problems from first gear into second,the bike is new to me so im not sure what has been done to it. when you accelerate and go to shift into second it just always goes into neutral. hope someone has some ideas for me, is it a linkage problem, rotary top , or trans ? thanks

What is even more fun is a down shift from 3rd that puts you in 1st!! I have lived with it since 1982 when I bought this m/c. There was 'recall' on the early 1980 *** shifters. Found out about it in 1984 or 85 and bought the parts for the upgrade. I have been through the tranny, more than once,and even changed forks and gears. Everything fixed it for a short period of time, it is my opinion that mine still does and always has over shifted first and so must under shift second. This is based on the distance the shift arm moves and the fact that I have always had to add shims/thrust washersbehind the gear, on the lay shift. The tranny 'door' always wears from the constantslaming of going into first. It was/is a problem in the cow pie shifter. The constant wearing in the torque multiply linkage does not help. Oh the reason I have not gone back in and fixed this problem is simple, the tranny does not leak a drop anywhere and it is more work than a lazy old man want to do. With the sidecar on I no longer have to 'prove' anything to anyone.

Good luck, enjoy and ride safe

38knuckle,

When you say this is new to you can one take for granted that you did the couple adjustments available to you? Its been awhile since I've adjusted my clutch but I think there was a cable adjustment and one for the actual clutches themselves inside. Not intending to insult you if you've done that already.

Ive tried every adjustment possible, the trans was checked out by a good mechanic and he said all the internals were good. I have good clutch pressure it just seems everytime you go to click second gear it goes to neutral, then if you re clutch and try and shift again it usually will go in, no fun when your trying to beat on it alittle,

Does it lessen the issue if you shift a little sooner?

it will sometimes go into second a lot easier if i shift sooner and alot slower then trying to get through the gears quick, Im sorry to say this but thats not how i ride, i need to be able to bang through the gears.

Look at the linkage That set up was jive from the start If it is sloppy get a V-Twin cat and look at parts 17-9869 HD part # 33187-79 You might have to go over size HD had a grease fitting that nobody knew existed therefore never saw grease. If your lucky it might be the shifter Good luck

thanks . ordered up some parts goin to try the linkage first, will let you know how i make out

I'm watching with interest ;)
I don't have that year but my buddy does and I will be rebuilding his trans soon since he just grenaded his 80..[:@][:@][:@][:o]

well the linkage isnt the problem,, trans is back out of the bike. I took the top off and nothing seems to worn of damaged, same problem still occurs on the bench. wont shift from first to second, the forks are straight and undamaged and so are all the gears, I am def up for some suggestions.. thanks please help

I did one of these at my shop Similar problem I replaced the cam assembly ( rotary top ) and it cleared Your mechanic looked at it and said it was OK It's hard to see if the cam cut is worn If you don't have a rear drive belt get a ratchet top trany $ not so bad !!

can I just put a ratchet top lid on the trans that I have ?

I'm out of my comfort Zone on the rotary tops on 4 speed transmissions but am now learning since I have one to rebuild.
I would say NO you can't unless theres one designed for the rotary type case since the mounting area for the tops are different than the earlier ratchet lids to the later rotary type.
Please correct me if I am wrong Guys :eek:

Like Rodney said, ya can't use a ratchet top on a rotary top transmission. I don't think any aftermarket company makes one. They would probably sell a bunch of 'em if they did.
sqdealgeorge is probably right. Maybe the cam assy. is prone to wear that is hardly detectable yet causes problems like yours. Can you take yours to someone with a new one to compare the two?

I'll have the transmission apart this evening an can post some images of this rotary lid and components for you to compare too.
The trans I am working on shifted ok it had bearing failure due to lack of oil.

thanks. I dont have one to compare with. by eye i def cant see any significant wear. v twin wants six hundred bucks for a new rotary top assy. complete. thats a little steep. they also sell a rebuild kit. whats my best option ?

I had a bent shifting fork years ago that wouldn't allow 3 gear to stay engaged after replacing it and inspecting the old fork it wasn't bent very much at all and was not visibly damage from merely looking at it from the top.
Also isn't there a timing tool to time the top to the shifting fork slides as needed with the ratchet top lids?
throwing out ideas here :eek:
one thing to be aware of, the old Harley transmissions don't lend themselves to fast shifting IMO.

on the turret top (sp) rotary top trans I found that where the shift mechanism is going into the top.... from externall to internall.... there is a diamind shape cover with a shift arm-pawl that sets into the cow pie top and engages for shifting ----

it has a ball at the end of it and sits into the groove for shifting through the gears... well....IMHO

I always shim that piece so it sits into the cover better and has no slop. (it floats like **** stock) this is an area where there can be lots of problems. sometimes when you bang on the shifter too hard you can jump this right out of the track it rides into. then the bike is stuck in or out of gear... just be sure to shim it to go into the cover not out of the cover, you will feel a noticeable difference in positive shifting.

also FWIW I would use waterproof hard grease on all the shifters moving parts....

Did you ever wonder why they called them "cowpies"

[sm=funnypostabove.gif]

just for some info . I rebuilt the top of the trans. cost about 300 bucks. beats the 600 vtwin wants for a completely new one.&nbsp\\; the one major problem i found was that the shifter pawl had a slight bend to it.. everything is good now. thanks again

Good deal Thanks for letting is know your results.

i just fuct w shifting for 3 hrs tonight on the b/inlaws shov............
Werent to bad ............