History of the biker,PTSD and Today!
Login  | |
|
History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 9:07:13 AM
|
|
|
CelticCB
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
I would like to tell you all that I really am ashamed of some of you! Let me try to explain PTSD for a second here:
You wake up and think that you are back in combat just by some chance a noise or voice brings you back to reality. Then that whole day you carry the experience with you getting you flashbacks of either your friends getting a bullet or watching civillians get blown to pieces. Mind you this is in fragmented memories.
Now I saw one coment to get over it? Most likely you either deny that you have it or you know nothing about PTSD. I am sorry for you either way.
How do I know this? Well 3 tours in Iraq and with SPECWAR I have a little time in the S*&T. I have been in for 16 now and I still serve.
I just would like some to just say THANKS move on and let me deal with my anger,sadness or hurt that I am feeling so that YES I can get over it!
I would just like to say that I support JC rider I he needs to talk You can contact me at daniel.mckee@navsoc.socom.mil and we can chat at anytime if you just want to talk.
On the other hand: If you all here just want to try and understand that biker groups were formed by WW2 guys coming in from war and that is why they where formed to have a get together for guys that went through this stuff to get away from reality and ride on the open road. Kind of like a ZEN thing to ease the mind from WAR torn memories. Read your Biker history people and get the yuppies up to speed on what a real biker is supposed to be and emulate.
That I my 2cents and i will speak no more of this. Sorry Mr Clean had to let people know!
_____________________________
Ride Hard Ride Fast and never mind who is behind you unless your a couch potato!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 10:01:25 AM
|
|
|
tlb
Posts: 1208
Joined: 4/30/2007
From: Lawton, OK
Status: offline
|
I know what you are saying, as matter of personal experience It gets better with time. I don't know you can ever just leave it behind, but with the proper help from others the effects are not as bad anymore. things on the side of the road don't scare you anymore, I'm no longer nervous in crowds, unexpected noises but make me sweat, and I'm not scared of the dark anymore.
Dealing with it properly, I like to talk about it, and time helps.
_____________________________
Dont play with scissors.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 10:02:18 AM
|
|
|
DannyZ71
Posts: 1198
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
Okay, I have to pipe in here. As a "non-combat" veteran, I won't even try to understand what those that have been in combat have to deal with day in and day out. I respect them (Father and Brother were both combat vets) and all that they went through.
However, I've been around a lot of combat veterans before and NEVER have I heard the things that JC Rider posted in that other two threads. None of them have ever used PTSD as an excuse for their behavior. And I don't care who you are, you don't call out one branch of service the way he did. I'm very proud of my Air Force service and his comments were way over the line. I was just sorry that thread was locked before I could reply to him.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 10:05:46 AM
|
|
|
iceman336
Posts: 276
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
|
Thank you for your service.
The Canadian military structure is just finally starting to address this issue. It's a serious problem for troops returning from the sandbox and it is hard on them, their families, their friends and associates. My father served in Korea and still won't talk about it to this day unless he is really in his cups. When he wakes up the next day, he won't acknowledge talking about it and suppresses everything to do with it.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 10:21:16 AM
|
|
|
CelticCB
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
Danny,
Ok I see your point, I did not see the comments on the other branch thing but You are right it should not be an excuse. However the fact remains that what can we do to help him out as a VET and a fellow biker, what can we do for him to realize what he said was wrong. Iam not going all hippie child on you here, just that I know how he feels. When someone gets on me I turn straight to anger and say things that I regret. Now through guys and others who have been there have shown me ways to cope and deal with it.
SO now I get creative to piss people off instead of loosing my temper and going over the line.
But hey that is what we are here for you know...I for one love my fellow troops and I care deeply for all who served before me because your mistakes are what makes SOP's for today. You all are trail blazers and I respect that. Just give it some time read the posts 3 or 4 times then kick em in the nuts. Works for me!
Respectfully,
Dan MCKee
_____________________________
Ride Hard Ride Fast and never mind who is behind you unless your a couch potato!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 10:25:14 AM
|
|
|
DannyZ71
Posts: 1198
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: CelticCB
Danny,
Ok I see your point, I did not see the comments on the other branch thing but You are right it should not be an excuse. However the fact remains that what can we do to help him out as a VET and a fellow biker, what can we do for him to realize what he said was wrong. Iam not going all hippie child on you here, just that I know how he feels. When someone gets on me I turn straight to anger and say things that I regret. Now through guys and others who have been there have shown me ways to cope and deal with it.
SO now I get creative to piss people off instead of loosing my temper and going over the line.
But hey that is what we are here for you know...I for one love my fellow troops and I care deeply for all who served before me because your mistakes are what makes SOP's for today. You all are trail blazers and I respect that. Just give it some time read the posts 3 or 4 times then kick em in the nuts. Works for me!
Respectfully,
Dan MCKee
Not a problem. Like I said, it's his comments that irritated me. Not the man himself. But it seems to me that the only way he's going to get better is to stop blaming it on this, or that, and actually get the help needed to deal with it. "Sorry" only works in my book a few times before it doesn't mean anything. Know what I mean?
PS. We didn't make any mistakes. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 10:31:11 AM
|
|
|
CelticCB
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
TLB,
Any time bro if you need to talk just klick the keys man. I know what you mean. I am just now getting over the sweats...I have a great wife that helps me out but watch the 4 of july though If I drink and not passed out by the time the fireworks start I am in the closet man...Just does not help and I do not want the kids to hate that time because dad can't cope you know! That is a time to celebrate!
Iceman,
Cool you got it! Hey You hit the nail on the head there brother Let your father know that I said THANKS! and give him a big kiss on the lips! He should understand...or you just might get your butt kicked, either way it is still cool to let him know! Thanks for your input.
_____________________________
Ride Hard Ride Fast and never mind who is behind you unless your a couch potato!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 10:41:44 AM
|
|
|
faber
Posts: 534
Joined: 9/24/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
|
CelticCB,
Yeah, once I read about the origins of "biker culture," I totally saw it: it was a way for these guys to deal with PTSD before it had a name. And while every war/deployment is different, I won't even pretend to compare my service with what WW2 vets had. 3+ years in the soup with no leave? dayum
But, you surely understand that conduct unbecoming is conduct unbecoming. We are responsible for our own actions. Hell, I get flashbacks/daydreams/nightmares about the time ____ __ me in the ____ with a _____ before the _____ came as well as the time when my #6 Chicken a-la-king MRE had no freakin' M&Ms for some reason. If I insult others' service because of it, I am out of line and should be called on it. A good vet would call me on it, and then he'd offer understanding but remind me not to step on my d!ck again.
I was in special ops, but not SF or SEAL, though I did go to ABN school with a bunch of you guys before you got your budweiser pins. Keep your feet and knees together.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 11:02:18 AM
|
|
|
tlb
Posts: 1208
Joined: 4/30/2007
From: Lawton, OK
Status: offline
|
celticcb
We went Disney World, with my kids, a few months after I got back. The kids still talk about me getting mad, and ruining one of the days there. Thank god you have a good wife, I have one too, I had several friends get divorced within a year of returning. My family was very understanding and supportive. I guess it may have something to do with the fact my wife's dad spent 4 years in Vietnam. He was deployed when she was born.
Have a good one.
One more final and this semester of college is over for me. seems odd a few years ago I was stressed daily in Iraq. Now, my only stress is finals and weather my grandson is going to S$$T again before his mom gets home.
_____________________________
Dont play with scissors.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 11:07:57 AM
|
|
|
JBaker421
Posts: 7355
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
|
Thank you all for serving. I have no idea what you're going through but the memories can't be easy. At the least, we owe you whatever you need.
God bless and keep you.
Just my $.02.
_____________________________
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 11:19:07 AM
|
|
|
jbnl163
Posts: 1471
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: CA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: CelticCB
I would like to tell you all that I really am ashamed of some of you! Let me try to explain PTSD for a second here:
Even though I have never served, I am deeply ashamed of the treatment our Vets have received when they return to public life. Vietnam Vets seem to have really gotten the short end of the stick, so to speak. It seems to be starting over again with Iraq.
_____________________________
BKD in CA
05' Road King Classic
95" Edelbrock Performer RPM Kit
SERT
TP Engineering Roller Rockers
Vance Hines Dresser Duals
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 11:19:29 AM
|
|
|
CelticCB
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
Faber,
Iam not a SEAL but Combat Support Team, Iam a Seabee. BUC as a matter of fact, But I did do the time with Battalion and other SPECOPS guys.
I see what you are saying though but hey lets move on you know. Let byegones be byegones. Just lets keep talking about it. It helps! Helps me with my head anyways. When I have people ask me "How do you keep it together when you are so stressed?" I say "How many kids do you have, I have 5, Thats how..." I then get that look...the your crazy stare.
_____________________________
Ride Hard Ride Fast and never mind who is behind you unless your a couch potato!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 11:28:18 AM
|
|
|
Rbohno
Posts: 121
Joined: 5/9/2006
From: Iron Station,NC
Status: offline
|
Iwould like to personally thank all of the vets on the forum for their services in the military. My best friend here in NC was in Special Forces and also completed Ranger school (I don't know in which order). on one tour he was sent to Czechoslavakia to train their special forces, well when he and I have had a few brews and we are alone bullshitting in the garage he will start telling me bits and pieces of things that are own his mind when he was in combat.
I never know how to respond, so I just try to be a good listener.
I used to do business in El Paso and there was a Denny's by Fort Bliss and at breakfast time it was always full of GI's, I used to love to go up to the counter and anonumously pay for a tables check. My personal way of showing thanks.
Thanks again all you veterans out there, its because of guys like you that we have our "FREEDOM"
_____________________________
Keep the Wind in your face, tits against your back and the rubber on the road.
2008 FLHX
exhaust
a/cleaner
stage I
2006 Big Dog Mastiff (SOLD :( had to laid off in February)
117" S&S
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 11:28:28 AM
|
|
|
Arcane
Posts: 603
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
|
There are a large number of military veterans on the forum, I am sure that all vets are well aware of PTSD. The WWII vets are getting few in number but they suffered tremendous combat horrors that troops in later conflicts have not experienced. They were forced to endure it with zero help. Korea was a frozen hell that that left troops with plenty of problems to deal with, again with no help at all. Vietnam was the first time that any recognition of PTSD even existed, and that was only after a tremendous amount of work by the many veterans and concerned medical groups outside the military. The press and media of course jumped on this immediately and cranked out a flood of stories and movies portraying Vietnam vets as being unstable killers that were subject to flash backs that turned them in to mass murderers and psychopaths. I am sure that the horrors endured by the combat troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are pretty bad and will have a lasting affect on some, but at least the current troops have some help with it now. The perception of PTSD has definitely changed; it does not carry the stigma that it did just after Vietnam. I hope that in the future that all the people in the world can find a way to live in sweetness and harmony  , but until that happens we are still going to have to put a boot in some of their aZZes to keep them in line and make them play nice. Unfortunately the world grows more unstable every year, which also means that GIs will be retuning with PTSD and devastating physical injuries for a long time. I think that most will learn to deal with it and carry on reguardless of the extra baggage. Ex-GIs for the most part are pretty resilient.
Arcane
< Message edited by Arcane -- 5/8/2008 2:35:34 PM >
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 11:55:53 AM
|
|
|
faber
Posts: 534
Joined: 9/24/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
|
CelticCB,
Talking about it is the key, my friend. I think we can all tell by how strongly we react here (and in that other thread) that we all deal with it to some degree. I thank God that my wife is also a vet. She understands.
I was in the Army, a Ranger, from the end of the Cold War to Sandbox I. Most of what we did was fly to some country that the average 12th grader can't find on a map and work like hell for 72-96 hours, sometimes longer, then exfil and go back home, where we just went back to counting/cleaning crap and sweeping the motor pool like nothing happened. We were not supposed to talk about it, not even to chain of command. And then, it'd start all over. Kinda weird, but so different than what's going on now. Man, I can't imagine...
I don't really lose my temper, but my students do fear my "intensity," which alternates with a smartass inability to take anything seriously. I tried mountain climbing, cycling, fly fishing....nothing seemed to work as well for me as rediscovering motorcycles. I like to think of guys coming back from WW2 doing the same. Veterans' groups/clubs just don't do it for me. It worked for the WW2/Korea vets, but...I dunno.
Whenever I meet a vet from an era before mine, I thank them for their service. Whenever I meet a guy serving now, I thank them for serving and wish them all the best of luck. Whenever I meet a guy who served when I did, I say, "That was a stupid thing to do, wasn't it? We didn't hafta, ya know!"
Best of luck to you CelticCB (I get your handle now). I'm grateful that you're out there and hope you get to stay home for a while. Whenever you need it, send out a radio check.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 12:37:45 PM
|
|
|
BadBoyFLSTC
Posts: 2125
Joined: 8/6/2007
From: Southern California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: CelticCB
I would like to tell you all that I really am ashamed of some of you! Let me try to explain PTSD for a second here:
You wake up and think that you are back in combat just by some chance a noise or voice brings you back to reality. Then that whole day you carry the experience with you getting you flashbacks of either your friends getting a bullet or watching civillians get blown to pieces. Mind you this is in fragmented memories.
Now I saw one coment to get over it? Most likely you either deny that you have it or you know nothing about PTSD. I am sorry for you either way.
How do I know this? Well 3 tours in Iraq and with SPECWAR I have a little time in the S*&T. I have been in for 16 now and I still serve.
I just would like some to just say THANKS move on and let me deal with my anger,sadness or hurt that I am feeling so that YES I can get over it!
I would just like to say that I support JC rider I he needs to talk You can contact me at daniel.mckee@navsoc.socom.mil and we can chat at anytime if you just want to talk.
On the other hand: If you all here just want to try and understand that biker groups were formed by WW2 guys coming in from war and that is why they where formed to have a get together for guys that went through this stuff to get away from reality and ride on the open road. Kind of like a ZEN thing to ease the mind from WAR torn memories. Read your Biker history people and get the yuppies up to speed on what a real biker is supposed to be and emulate.
That I my 2cents and i will speak no more of this. Sorry Mr Clean had to let people know!
I have hardly been on this forum that I haven't read someone thanking a guy for his service. With a whole 11 post under your belt though, you may not have seen that. I will tell you though, you don't need to jump on the side of some douche to come here trolling for a thank you. Let people get to know you and what you do and they will come from a butt load of grateful people on here. For all of the little tiffs I have seen on here, one thing nobody can ever convince me of is that this forum is anti-military and not 100% behind our troops and the people who have been "in the Shiite".
_____________________________
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions
Blaise Pascal
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 12:43:32 PM
|
|
|
swilsondds
Posts: 132
Joined: 4/22/2008
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline
|
Thanks. Seriously.
Doc
_____________________________
Ride Safe,
Doc
1995 Road King, Stage I
"I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy..."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 1:10:46 PM
|
|
|
kingk9
Posts: 956
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: SoCal
Status: offline
|
Well, I'm a Vietnam vet, and though at the age of 20, I saw some knarly stuff, and was scared shitless about half the time I was there, I really don't feel it affected me negatively. I just always thought it was part of life. You do what you do, depending on the time you're living in, and just deal with it. Life is a bitch, as they say. Guess everybody deals differently though.The people on here love the military and vets in general, even when I don't think I deserve it all that much. Most people would step up if the circumstances dictate that you have to. So I think you're way off base on this and have probably offended a shitload of people. Thanks for your service.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 1:36:58 PM
|
|
|
faber
Posts: 534
Joined: 9/24/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
|
Not everybody steps us, KingK9. Some leave the country, some stay in college forever, some joined the Guard (though that doesn't work anymore).
For those who do step up, it hits them all differently. I think a big part of it is what you come back to. When I came back from Sandbox I, everybody was tying yellow ribbons on telephone poles, trees, etc., but I was pissed because they had no idea what really went on. But my 1SG and CSM, who both served in Vietnam, squared me away quickly.
Thanks for stepping up, KingK9.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 5:19:40 PM
|
|
|
CelticCB
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
Don't want to offend anybody but When a fellow vet or biker is in some kind of pissed off mood it is normally my feeling that some one is asking for some kind of help! Again not trying to be hippie child but damn man you can not please everyone. Just that when someone is hurting you try to herlp them out. I just saw a vet asking for help and wanted to relate. Yeah I could have just stood by and watched but that is not my type of personality. I want to be there for my guys as well as those who served in the past. Now I can not even imagine what the Vietnam guys went through I stick around the VFW from time to time and hear some knarly shite. I thank all you guys and hey talking it out is cool. If it come out that it looked as though I was saying diffrent I appologize. So forgive me for trolling in and asking for a thank you...Whatever man! I do what I think is right and I do not need anyone to pat me on the back to let me know that what I am doing is either ok or kissing a$$...I do what I want to because I want to. Thats it for me and me only! It just hit a sore spot that some of you just do not get the biker way...and some would just let a fellow vet go off with out at least trying to listen to what really is being said.
So anyways let us just buy a round of beers hit each other in the face and get another round. Don't sweat the small stuff.
_____________________________
Ride Hard Ride Fast and never mind who is behind you unless your a couch potato!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 6:00:47 PM
|
|
|
PigInaBlanket
Posts: 3844
Joined: 5/27/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline
|
Like I said in the original thread, I respect what the guy had done but there was no reason to come on here and disrespect Air Force personnel like that especially after whining about people disrespecting his Sporty. I thought he sounded like a jerk off.
_____________________________
Current bike: 2007 Street Bob
V&H Short Shots, SE ac, PC III, forward controls
Previous bike: 2005 Sporty NRHS 883/1250C conversion AKA oil guzzler R.I.P.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 8:19:15 PM
|
|
|
connsmith
Posts: 620
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Oakdale, CT
Status: offline
|
OK first of all Thanks for Serving all you combat vets, I was a non-combat vet on submarines.. but I still think JC Rider was a ****, look we don't know each other for crap here so his claims may be full of shit and a reason for him to be an ass.... to hell with the attitudes we don't need em. I have met many Vietnem Vets and had a friend who was a POW for a few years, none of them "bragged" about the horrors they saw... most wanted to forget what they did there. So when JC Rider comes on and starts right away throwing around his combat vet status... I am suspicious. Then to insult other men who served and the PGR ... no way I am just not a beleiver this guy is full of it...
Go ahead be pissed at me I don't care, it is the truth I bet
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/8/2008 8:45:03 PM
|
|
|
OldFenderGuy
Multiple Time Contributor
Posts: 5337
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Ozark Country
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: PigInaBlanket
Like I said in the original thread, I respect what the guy had done but there was no reason to come on here and disrespect Air Force personnel like that especially after whining about people disrespecting his Sporty. I thought he sounded like a jerk off.
I volunteered and spent 3 years in 'Nam (and across border operations), involved in almost constant combat, but I would never disrespect anyone from any branch of service, even if they were only involved in 'support functions'.
If it wasn't for them myself and other members of the various 'teams' I was on wouldn't be around right now...
_____________________________
"Magna Res Est Vocis Et Silentii Temper Amentum"
(The Great Thing Is To Know When To Speak, And When To Keep Silent)
And By The Way; I'm Not Your "Bro"..
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/9/2008 5:12:11 AM
|
|
|
georgiabiker
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
I am a non-combat Vet and have many friends with PTSD. Some are worse than others. I give any Vet the benefit of doubt when talking to or dealing with them. Just because they were not in the worst areas over there doesn't mean they don't have a bad case of PTSD. Everyone handles it different. I have a great friend (Ft. Bragg E-7) who is seriously hurting, drowning his pain, fear and anger in the bottle. Without it, he goes sideways on about everyone. I know others who seem to not have a problem at all, but those that do are few and far between.
I can't imagine how hard PTSD is since I was blessed with never deploying to the front lines even though I was artillery, but I know it can be living hell for some. Hell, I get bad memories of Basic Training when it is dead still, quite, and a bit chilly in the morning. Nothing really to bother me, but still enough to make me dislike calm cool mornings. I cannot imagine PTSD. Anyone who has served, especailly in combat will get treated with velvet gloves since the damn VA doesn't seem to give a flying....
Thanks for your service! If any Vets are ever in the back woods of northeast Georgia, give me a shout and we'll hit the road for a day.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/9/2008 6:06:54 AM
|
|
|
Time2ride
Posts: 475
Joined: 4/22/2007
From: Arizona
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: connsmith
OK first of all Thanks for Serving all you combat vets, I was a non-combat vet on submarines.. but I still think JC Rider was a ****, look we don't know each other for crap here so his claims may be full of shit and a reason for him to be an ass.... to hell with the attitudes we don't need em. I have met many Vietnem Vets and had a friend who was a POW for a few years, none of them "bragged" about the horrors they saw... most wanted to forget what they did there. So when JC Rider comes on and starts right away throwing around his combat vet status... I am suspicious. Then to insult other men who served and the PGR ... no way I am just not a beleiver this guy is full of it...
Go ahead be pissed at me I don't care, it is the truth I bet
+1
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/9/2008 6:18:50 AM
|
|
|
irishviking
Posts: 192
Joined: 3/28/2008
Status: offline
|
+1 Pig in blanket
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/9/2008 6:49:20 AM
|
|
|
georgiabiker
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
Ok, now I am wondering since I never saw the first thread everyone is ranting about. So what exactly did the first thread OP say to start this shitstorm?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/9/2008 6:52:40 AM
|
|
|
DannyZ71
Posts: 1198
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: georgiabiker
Ok, now I am wondering since I never saw the first thread everyone is ranting about. So what exactly did the first thread OP say to start this shitstorm?
It's in the Sportster section. Here ya go. Toward the end of the thread.
http://www.hdforums.com/m_3303146/tm.htm
|
|
|
|
|
RE: History of the biker,PTSD and Today! - 5/9/2008 7:20:27 AM
|
|
|
ConnMan
Posts: 146
Joined: 3/11/2008
From: Venice, FL
Status: offline
|
Thank you.
| | |
Printable Version
