Can you believe this. After just 2000 miles the bearing failed. It didnt just fail but actually disenegrated. I had the IDS installed in Sept of last year . To avoid the well known stealer price markup i purchased the kit from Zanotti and had the dealer do the install. Yea i know what your thinking. Only 2000 miles after 7 months? Well I work out of the country for extended periods so when i do get home i like to get some good riding in, but yesterday after about 20 miles i heard this awful rocks rolling around in the rear wheel area sound when slowing down for a red light. For sure that sound wasnt the "oh thats normal thay all do that" type of sound. Took it back to the dealer and of course they dont have the bearing in stock and was told they would get it in about 7-10 working days. Also the warranty will not cover any of it because it wasnt on the bike when purchased. I just find it difficult to accept the fact that a genuine Harley part installed by a Certified Harley mechanic at a Harley dealership will not warranty any of this. I should also mention that this is the third new bike I have bought from them. What do you guys think of all this. Would like to hear some opinions.

In the meantime I'll get my riding fix in by using the wife's Sporty til the Ultra is back.

Lemme git this straight....

You brought yer own eggs to the restaurant an' had 'em cook 'em 'cuz it wuz cheaper....

Now, you want the cook to help you get a refund 'cuz the eggs were rotten......

You wanted cheaper, ya got cheaper.

If ya want someone willin' to go to bat fer ya, ya might try buyin' stuff from THEM instead of elsewhere.

Texasredneck, I guess it's the simple analogies that bring clarity to the question.
I guess i am just bummed out about not getting to ride the Ultra for awhile.

Thanks

Similar thing happened to me, was in the middle of a 4 k mile trip from Miami through the dragon BRP over to eastern NC and all around the mid atlantic, also stopped by BadX to get my seat done. Well I was about 10 miles from MCC when I pulled over to check maps and picked up a screw in my back tire. This was about 1730 hrs, called hog, they were dicking around for a while and told me it would be $100 for a pick up and delivery to Carolina HD, I called Carolina HD direct told them where I was and they sent a kid over with a hummer and a trailer, we had it at the dealer within the hour, no charge. The manager and the kid stayed late as they were 5 minutes from closing when I called, even waited with me for the taxi to arrive after I thurned down a ride that would have taken them way out of their way (great dealer). Back to the dealer the next morning they were already removing the back tire, and the bering fell out, this suprised them as they had not installed an IDS yet, after examination it was determined that the bearing was pressed in incorrectly by Miami HD, the plastic seal had ball marks from where the arbor pressed center race through the middle of the bearing. Carolina did not have anyIDS's in stock nor did any other dealers close by, called Miami, told them what we think happened, they over nighted the new bearing and the special tool that they needed to do the install properly, mean time I had to go see my son who was just getting back from Iraq at Ft Bragg, Miami HD (Petersons North)paid for an 08 Ultra ( zero miles)rental for 4 days so I could continue my trip, they took care of all costs of IDS repair, all they wanted was for me to carry back the original bearing so they could use it to retrain the mechanics they had. I am a very happy camper. Did not like the 08 TBW vs my 07 RKC by the way, probably could get used to it but to jump on another bike in the middle of a long trip like that you notice every difference. Sorry for the long post but you need to complain and get a new dealer.

[sm=exactly.gif]

texasredneck, I agree with what you are saying but if they were paterbed by him going to Zanottis they should not have done the install. Zanottis is a HD dealer IDS is HD part the local did the install it should warrant the product and work.

As I posted before, a couple of weeks ago I dropped the rear wheel to check the bearing, due to some of the posts I read here about bearing failure. Sure enough, the bearing had a lot of slop in it. I ordered one from the dealer, got it in about 4 days, and put it in. Interestingly enough, the new bearing came with the inner spacer built into the bearing. Anywho, I'm up and running.
Check 'em folks. Don't wait for the rocks in a can sound!

I know there was a post on here a few weeks ago about the torque needing to be 80lbs. on the IDS instead of 60. I think the post said a bulletin was put out by Harley to re-torque the 08's IDS to 80lbs. Was wondering if anyone found out if this applied to us 07 owners who added the IDS?

I don't think it matters who put it in as far as dealers. If it was a HD part put in by a HD dealer then HD should warranty their work. Aftermarket is another story. The way I look at it if the servicing dealer did not want to match the price on the part then why should you buy from them. They are still going to charge the same amount for labor anyway.

What is the part # for that new bearing with spacer included? I too had a bearing failure and the bearing I recd for replacement was the same as original, needed spacer

Not to steal the post, but I had the IDS installed on my '07 Ultra after reading about the new torque specs I went to my dealer who installed it. They called MOCO but could not get a straight answer on the add-on IDS. They pretty much told they it only applied to the '08's, but to recheck the torque on the '07's when they are serviced.

When I get to the shop after while, I'll try to find the box it came in and I'll post in the morning. Allen

unless Zanottis isbuying IDS Kits from some black market source, it is still a HD Part, and the install was done by a HD Dealer..

MOCO Should step up and warrant the product and pay it's dealer's technician to make there customer happy... That's just good business..

Agree on the MoCo covering the replacement for the failed part - but don't agree with being unhappy with the dealer that installed a customer-supplied part. They were paid to do labor only - there was zero profit in the parts for them. That the part failed is NOT their fault. It'd be like buying tires online, gettin' 'em installed locally an' finding out that one of 'em is defective. The sellin' tire dealer will replace the tire, but yer gonna eat the labor.

Guys, sometimes cheaper is more expensive. I do water treatment, industrial and residential. That is why I will NOT install products bought elsewhere - I don't want or need the hassle of a defective part that a customer wants me to replace for no charge. If I sell it, I stand behind it - period. If not, then I want nothing to do with it, because folks seem to think that others should guarantee stuff that they didn't sell 'em.

I have had the same problem with the first kit installed on my bike. I had it done at the dealer and it was the very first one they'd done. They didn't have the special tool to seat the bearing. It went at about 1700 miles. A new bearing was installed, and it went south at about 3500 miles on the speedo. A whole new kit was installed, with the bearing pressed in with the special tool (as was the first replacement bearing), and there have been no problems since.

I am of the opinion that the manufacture of the first kit was probably faulty. In every occurance, the race disintegrated, which sort of implies the seat wasn't milled correctly.[sm=confused06.gif]

This whole setup seemed like a pretty poor design to me from the get-go. It's apparentthat thesingle bearing in the IDS is not adequately supported in the vertical axis. In other words, there's nothing to keep the sprocket from wobbling crossways on the shaft other than the one bearing. Think of it as a wheel that has one bearing in the center of it instead of one on each side. Ball bearings are in no way designed to take this kind of loading.Plus, it's a sealed bearing and there's no way to periodically lubricate it. Remember, theIDS system is really nothing but just a bandaid quick-fix that the MOCO came up with tomask an underlying design defect in the under-tested, poorly designed6 speed tranny/primary drive that was introduced on, and gave so many problems with,the '07 models.

Same problem here. My IDS bearing failed ~ 2,000 miles. I had a growling noise and slight vibration that were bothering me. I pulled the primary to check the chain and tensioner, looked A-OK. Then decided to remove both front and rear wheels to check wheel bearings which were also A-OK. The IDS support bearing was "rough" and had too much play in it. Ordered and replaced the bearing and now I'm good to go.............probably for another 2,000 miles. The replacement bearing was the same as the original.

I`m curious about this whole IDS thing.I`ve got a `91 so I am unfamiliar.If I have this correct,the moco did away with the compensator at the motor and are trying to fix the vibrations from the motor/primary @ the rear wheel?So now their fix is unreliable and failing as early as 2000 miles?Is there enough room in the primary (under the cover) to put a compensator back in ?I realize the sprocket tooth count is probably different from the older ones but this can be overcome with some machining and welding and it will not ****e the bed after 2000 miles.Can someone tell me where I can see an exploded view of an IDS and newer primary setup so I can figure this out in my mind as to how this can be corrected at the source of the problem instead of the rear wheel.Harley`s bikes had no issues with this until they had to go and change things up and now you all are suffering.Some else besides the moco needs to address this and put out a retro kit that works.Toby

ORIGINAL: TexasRedneck

Lemme git this straight....

You brought yer own eggs to the restaurant an' had 'em cook 'em 'cuz it wuz cheaper....

Now, you want the cook to help you get a refund 'cuz the eggs were rotten......

You wanted cheaper, ya got cheaper.

If ya want someone willin' to go to bat fer ya, ya might try buyin' stuff from THEM instead of elsewhere.


You make me laugh,, funny... But to the point. Tim

ORIGINAL: tobyhd1

I`m curious about this whole IDS thing.I`ve got a `91 so I am unfamiliar.If I have this correct,the moco did away with the compensator at the motor and are trying to fix the vibrations from the motor/primary @ the rear wheel?So now their fix is unreliable and failing as early as 2000 miles?Is there enough room in the primary (under the cover) to put a compensator back in ?I realize the sprocket tooth count is probably different from the older ones but this can be overcome with some machining and welding and it will not ****e the bed after 2000 miles.Can someone tell me where I can see an exploded view of an IDS and newer primary setup so I can figure this out in my mind as to how this can be corrected at the source of the problem instead of the rear wheel.Harley`s bikes had no issues with this until they had to go and change things up and now you all are suffering.Some else besides the moco needs to address this and put out a retro kit that works.Toby


The compensator is still there. This was the "fix" for the noisy 5th gear on the 6 speed tranny's.

Referring to the comment about the bearing being under stress from being supported from just one side. I believe the MOCO directive telling the tech's to torque to 80 lbs from 60 lbs was to address this. That would distribute the stresses over the entire hub. I have 12000 miles on mine since that directive came out (plus installing a new kit) and have had no more problems.

I assume that the torque specs apply to the bolts that attach the adaptor to the wheel. Or is it the axle nut? It's hard for me tovisualize how increasing the torqueon either ofthose parts would affect the force applied to the bearing sincethe sprocket and the wheel adaptor areseparated by the rubber blocks. But, on the other hand, if it actually does fix the problem, then I guess that's what really counts. Ya can't argue with success!

Good luck,

John

Well Ihad a nice talk with the service manager at the dealership. The IDS was not on the bike when I purchased the bike so technicaly its not covered under the 2 year warranty. The partitself that i purchased from Zanotti's isonly under warranty for 60 days.Seeing that i am a returning customer by buying 3 new bikes in the past 2 years from them, they are going to cover the cost of the bearing and knock off most of the labor and shop fee. My total bill will be under 100 bucks which I am agreeable with.

You guys with the IDS installed on your 07 bikes, would do good to check that bearing for wear and play next chance you get.

Took the IDS off mine after the bearing failed and went back to the original sprocket, not enough noticable difference to make me worry about a second bearing failure down the road and possibly in the middle of BFE JMHO

So Harley parts come with a 60 day warranty? I guess that shows the extent of the MOCO's faith in the durability of its merchandise. Pathetic!

At least your local dealer treated you right. Good for him!

John

I wonder if the newer IDS kits are OK? I had one installed a few weeks back, and I'm leaving Saturday for a trip out West with a few of my buddies! I hope so? I do love the new smoothness involved with the IDS!

milo8155
07 FLHX
03 FXST
Collierville,TN

ORIGINAL: jpooch00

I assume that the torque specs apply to the bolts that attach the adaptor to the wheel. Or is it the axle nut? It's hard for me tovisualize how increasing the torqueon either ofthose parts would affect the force applied to the bearing sincethe sprocket and the wheel adaptor areseparated by the rubber blocks. But, on the other hand, if it actually does fix the problem, then I guess that's what really counts. Ya can't argue with success!



I agree with you that higher TQ on the hub wouldn't affect the sprocket bearing at all. What crosses my mind is that this technology goes back to 1911 when Royal Enfield invented the "cush drive," and the metrics have been using the system for years or even decades. HD has implemented it in the V-Rod which has been out for six or eight years, so they have experience with it, too. Does the V-Rod have the same system of using one roller bearing on the sprocket? Do the metrics? If so, the technology must be okay or everybody wouldn't be doing it.

I find this post interesting because I just bought an IDSkit from Zanotti and had them press the bearing into it first. I haven't installed it yet, but when I received it, I inspected it closely and it appears to have two bearings pressed into the hub, not just one that everyone seems to be talking about. So, if this was indeed a problem it seems they have addressed it. When I get home tonight, I will confirm this and take a picture as detailed as I can and post it here for all to see. What seems like used to be a spacer on the inside of the bearing actually rotates and "feels" and "looks" just like another bearing with the same width. But, I will confirm.

IDS is not needed if you ride the bike the way its ment to be ridden. Keep the rpm's over 2k and you won't need IDS. I have no problems on my 96 eg. because I keep it over 2k.

That's why I said heck with the HD tranny & went with a baker 6 speed.

The bearing actually has 2 inner races for some reason, if you saw the bearing uninstalled you would see1 outer and 2 inner races. Why??? who knows...

If it has two races on the inside and only one on the outside, this actually makes sense that it looks like two bearings when installed. The reason as I see it is because they had to make a bearing as wide as they could but they only have a limited cross section to work with due to diameter limitations. So, they have two races to hold the largest size ball they could in that "cross section" between the od and the id and made it double width with two rings of ball bearings to give the unit as much support as possible on the axle to minimize the radial movement or potential wobble. This actually would work better than two bearings as it will maintain a slight gap between the inner races for frictional and heat reasons as opposed to pressing in two seperate bearings.

10K miles later and no problems with IDS, will check when rear will is replaced.

ORIGINAL: jpooch00

This whole setup seemed like a pretty poor design to me from the get-go......

Remember, theIDS system is really nothing but just a bandaid quick-fix that the MOCO came up with tomask an underlying design defect in the under-tested, poorly designed6 speed tranny/primary drive that was introduced on, and gave so many problems with,the '07 models.



oh, pfffft.....
blah, blah, blah.... heard it all before and don't believe a word of it.

i guess metrics have been poorly designed and undertested for years.....

Does the rear wheel need to be pulled to check the bearing for play or loosness?

Hey Skratch,

Ya got it all wrong, bud. Metrics are great designs, generally. That's why the MOCO is finally copying this feature that the metrics have had for decades. It's just thatthe MOCOneeds 2 or 3years to work the bugs out of their interpretation of it. Once their customers have had adequate time to do all the testing and paying for the re-designed expermental parts, they'll git 'er done!

Glad we got that cleared up.

Ride safe,

John

I think Scratch was being sarcastic they way I read it. I think he is agreeing with you that metrics are well built.

if you notice the jap stuff uses a normal ball bearing not some weird mutation that hd engineers thought up

I have never seen the construction of this system but I've been in the bearing business for 30 years. First of all, if the wheel already has the required two bearings for the axle, why is there one in the IDS hub? Is that the way it is set up? Three bearings? That's a no-no for all practical purposes and could be the real problem. Now, if the double inner ring bearing you say is there replaces one of the other axle bearings, then there must be a reason for having the split inners( most, if not all front wheel drive cars have double inner ring and solid outer ring bearings) to deal with the "differential" effect of turning at speeds that steering a wheel causes. That confuses me because I don't see the need in a rear wheel unless it has something to do with allowing the cushioning of the hub to be isolated from the wheel. I'd like to see all the components of an IDS system to see what goes in there. Also, you press against the ring/race that gets the press fit. If you press or force the oppsite ring (installation or axle nut force) you can cause dents in the raceways called "brinelling" which leads to premature failure. There are many ways to ruin bearings but improper installation is one of the leading causes of premature failure. ORIGINAL: Mikind7

The bearing actually has 2 inner races for some reason, if you saw the bearing uninstalled you would see1 outer and 2 inner races. Why??? who knows...

This should help:

;)

local://upfiles/8738/5C5F7822110C4B6A80FD997C763FEE0E.jpg

local://upfiles/8738/58CFA159647E4BEDA8C4E78822FD7D09.jpg

local://upfiles/8738/28B90EF9454D4A3AA06C01FCEE60AE04.jpg

local://upfiles/8738/C76AF5BEF5B144E3BEAE9E06AFADF2ED.jpg

this bearing does not replace any bearing but is an added bearing in the isolated sprocket...

the sprocket is deflecting under torque causing a side load to the sprocket bearing and early failures

I purchased the IDS from my dealer and had him intall it 2500 miles ago. $361 wasted as I can't tell any difference with it. Now I'm worring all the time about bearing failure. Also I didn't get my original sprocket back from the dealer. Just never thought about it till later. If Ihad got'en the old sprocket back I would put it back on and not worry about the IDS failing.

07 Ultra

5000 on mine with no problems

I wonder how many posters on this thread have actually worked on one of these. I have, IMHO, the torque update on the cone nut will correct the problem.

UW
I wrench my own bikes

Hey sparky_mo,

Yeah, I know he was - I was just givin' him a little of it back!

Thanks and ride safe,

John

Hey crash1292,

That's what I was trying to say in my post too!

You said it better.

Thanks,

John

ORIGINAL: TexasRedneck

Lemme git this straight....

You brought yer own eggs to the restaurant an' had 'em cook 'em 'cuz it wuz cheaper....

Now, you want the cook to help you get a refund 'cuz the eggs were rotten......

You wanted cheaper, ya got cheaper.

If ya want someone willin' to go to bat fer ya, ya might try buyin' stuff from THEM instead of elsewhere.
i agree. been in automotive repair most my life and people STILL dont undersatnd why they cant supply thier own parts. amazing. that being said , im amazed at the bike shops that WILL install your parts. i certainly wouldnt expect them to warranty anything they didnt sell me regardless of the brand. BTW 20K miles on my IDS from Zanotti's (knock on wood) trouble free but i installed myself

After reading this thread last night I got to thinking about my IDS that the dealer installed about 5K ago. Call it paranoia but I want them to check it out so I called the shop. Service manager didn't know anything about it but he said he'd call around. A couple of hours later he called me back and asked me to bring the bike in on Saturday so they can inspect the bearing, replace if needed andinstallnew boltstorqued to the latestspecs.

Great guys at my dealership!

Thanks for posting this update. I'll feel better Saturday.

I had the IDS installed back in aug of 07' I'm on my third back tire and have 18,000+ miles and just returned from a 2600 mile trip to the east coast no problems here. still beleive it was a good addition to the bike. jmo

Sounds like the IDS is a crap shoot!!!! My feeling is if I wanted silky smooth I would have bought another 'wing'. I'll take my Ultra the way she is. Keep the rpm's up and all is well!!:D

IDS was a fix for the people who labor there motors in 6 gear.

I’m approaching 8,000 miles on my scoot and I once considered the IDS but since I didn’t have any problems or complaints and it was still in warranty, I decided against it and I’m glad I did.

For every 1,000 mile increments on the speedometer, 5th gear gets quieter (just gears meshing and wearing in I guess).

The whole IDS thing is a non-issue for me now.

But I do agree that if a dealer installs a genuine HD part that fails within the specified warranty period, then the dealer should repair the bike at HD's expense. It's like a trucker getting his rig repaired at a Cummins dealer in Tulsa with genuine Cummins parts and then having a failure in Seattle. The Seattle Cummins dealer should fix the truckat Cummin's expense - and they would.

Just the way I see it.

ORIGINAL: Night Crawler



But I do agree that if a dealer installs a genuine HD part that fails within the specified warranty period, then the dealer should repair the bike at HD's expense. It's like a trucker getting his rig repaired at a Cummins dealer in Tulsa with genuine Cummins parts and then having a failure in Seattle. The Seattle Cummins dealer should fix the truckat Cummin's expense - and they would.

Just the way I see it.


yeah, BUT i dont think that would wash if u bought the parts at thru an on line Cummins dealer. dont think they would install em to begin with.

ORIGINAL: relli

yeah, BUT i dont think that would wash if u bought the parts at thru an on line Cummins dealer. dont think they would install em to begin with.


I agree.

However, the OP’s dealer did install the genuine HD accessoryso HD should repairit at no cost to the OP - assuming the bearing was installed properly by the dealer.

I recently had mine apart again,brg was fine,original tq specs still good.The failures some have reported may be due to whoever set the brg and/or if tq wrench was ever used for wheel install.Sounds like the factory got the 08s right using the IDS.So it appears to be the installer that may have caused the issue.

Since this is an "aftermarket" system, I wonder if the '08s with IDS as a factory set up are constructed the same way. The only thing that really would concern me is the fact that you have a solid axle with three bearings(?) and you're bolting on this hub and dampener set. When all is fastened, the clearances from the bolts and bolt holes could never be perfectly aligned and the bearing would be going through stress reversals causing early fatigue...kinda like taking a paper clip and bending it back and forth until it breaks. My old Honda dirt bikes had rubber dampeners in the hubs for the same reason that this set is for but it was configured with two bearings. Two bearings can handle the load properly...three bearings on one shaft and there's potential for trouble! ORIGINAL: WVULTRA

This should help:

;)

local://upfiles/8738/5C5F7822110C4B6A80FD997C763FEE0E.jpg

local://upfiles/8738/58CFA159647E4BEDA8C4E78822FD7D09.jpg

local://upfiles/8738/28B90EF9454D4A3AA06C01FCEE60AE04.jpg

local://upfiles/8738/C76AF5BEF5B144E3BEAE9E06AFADF2ED.jpg

Got a 08, Pulled the back wheel off and replaced it. I've drove a few thousand miles and haven't had a problem. I only tightened it with a 3/4" ratchet. Didn't have a socket big enought for my 1/2 " torque wrench..

Do we know what the failure rate is? Is it only a few out of thousands which would be normal?

I just saw the IDS Poll addressing this. I'll check it out. Sorry.