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IDS Bearing Failure

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IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 5:56:21 AM   
Delmar


Posts: 21
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: South Alabama
Status: offline 		Can you believe this. After just 2000 miles the bearing failed. It didnt just fail but actually disenegrated. I had the IDS installed in Sept of last year . To avoid the well known stealer price markup i purchased the kit from Zanotti and had the dealer do the install. Yea i know what your thinking. Only 2000 miles after 7 months? Well I work out of the country for extended periods so when i do get home i like to get some good riding in, but yesterday after about 20 miles i heard this awful rocks rolling around in the rear wheel area sound when slowing down for a red light. For sure that sound wasnt the "oh thats normal thay all do that" type of sound. Took it back to the dealer and of course they dont have the bearing in stock and was told they would get it in about 7-10 working days. Also the warranty will not cover any of it because it wasnt on the bike when purchased. I just find it difficult to accept the fact that a genuine Harley part installed by a Certified Harley mechanic at a Harley dealership will not warranty any of this. I should also mention that this is the third new bike I have bought from them. What do you guys think of all this. Would like to hear some opinions.

In the meantime I'll get my riding fix in by using the wife's Sporty til the Ultra is back.

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07 FLHTCU Vivid Black
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Post #: 1
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:02:59 AM   
TexasRedneck



Posts: 3525
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline 		Lemme git this straight....

You brought yer own eggs to the restaurant an' had 'em cook 'em 'cuz it wuz cheaper....

Now, you want the cook to help you get a refund 'cuz the eggs were rotten......

You wanted cheaper, ya got cheaper.

If ya want someone willin' to go to bat fer ya, ya might try buyin' stuff from THEM instead of elsewhere.

_____________________________

George "The Texas Redneck" & Pat "Schoolmarm" Mandry
PGR
2007 FLHTCU - RED, of course!
NRA Life
"In the shadow of the Alamo, any man looks small!"

(in reply to Delmar)
Post #: 2
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:16:29 AM   
Delmar


Posts: 21
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: South Alabama
Status: offline 		Texasredneck, I guess it's the simple analogies that bring clarity to the question.
I guess i am just bummed out about not getting to ride the Ultra for awhile.

Thanks

_____________________________

07 FLHTCU Vivid Black
Rinehart True Duals
PCIII dyno tuned

08 XL1200 Custom (Wifes)
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06 Heritage Classic (Sold)

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Post #: 3
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:19:13 AM   
masterblaster



Posts: 1354
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline 		Similar thing happened to me, was in the middle of a 4 k mile trip from Miami through the dragon BRP over to eastern NC and all around the mid atlantic, also stopped by BadX to get my seat done. Well I was about 10 miles from MCC when I pulled over to check maps and picked up a screw in my back tire. This was about 1730 hrs, called hog, they were dicking around for a while and told me it would be  $100 for a pick up and delivery to Carolina HD, I called Carolina HD direct told them where I was and they sent a kid over with a hummer and a trailer, we had it at the dealer within the hour, no charge. The manager and the kid stayed late as they were 5 minutes from closing when I called, even waited with me for the taxi to arrive after I thurned down a ride that would have taken them way out of their way (great dealer). Back to the dealer the next morning they were already removing the back tire, and the bering fell out, this suprised them as they had not installed an IDS yet, after examination it was determined that the bearing was pressed in incorrectly by Miami HD, the plastic seal had ball marks from where the arbor pressed center race through the middle of the bearing. Carolina did not have anyIDS's in stock nor did any other dealers close by, called Miami, told them what we think happened, they over nighted the new bearing and the special tool that they needed to do the install properly, mean time I had to go see my son who was just getting back from Iraq at Ft Bragg, Miami HD (Petersons North) paid for an 08 Ultra ( zero miles) rental for 4 days so I could continue my trip, they took care of all costs of IDS repair, all they wanted was for me to carry back the original bearing so they could use it to retrain the mechanics they had. I am a very happy camper. Did not like the 08 TBW vs my 07 RKC by the way, probably could get used to it but to jump on another bike in the middle of a long trip like that you notice every difference. Sorry for the long post but you need to complain and get a new dealer.

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Post #: 4
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:19:59 AM   
sparky_mo


Posts: 491
Joined: 11/22/2005
From: Missouri
Status: offline

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Post #: 5
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:22:59 AM   
masterblaster



Posts: 1354
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline 		texasredneck, I agree with what you are saying but if they were paterbed by him going to Zanottis they should not have done the install. Zanottis is a HD dealer IDS is HD part the local did the install it should warrant the product and work. 

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07 RKC Black Cherry
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HQ 500 cams
Super SERT
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Post #: 6
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:24:22 AM   
AlCherry


Posts: 120
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Rye, By God, Deep East Texas
Status: offline 		As I posted before, a couple of weeks ago I dropped the rear wheel to check the bearing, due to some of the posts I read here about bearing failure. Sure enough, the bearing had a lot of slop in it. I ordered one from the dealer, got it in about 4 days, and put it in. Interestingly enough, the new bearing came with the inner spacer built into the bearing. Anywho, I'm up and running.
Check 'em folks. Don't wait for the rocks in a can sound!

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Post #: 7
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:26:46 AM   
sparky_mo


Posts: 491
Joined: 11/22/2005
From: Missouri
Status: offline 		I know there was a post on here a few weeks ago about the torque needing to be 80lbs.  on the IDS instead of 60. I think the post said a bulletin was put out by Harley to re-torque the 08's IDS to 80lbs. Was wondering if anyone found out if this applied to us 07 owners who added the IDS?

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Post #: 8
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:33:35 AM   
62trvler

 

Posts: 382
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think it matters who put it in as far as dealers. If it was a HD part put in by a HD dealer then HD should warranty their work. Aftermarket is another story. The way I look at it if the servicing dealer did not want to match the price on the part then why should you buy from them. They are still going to charge the same amount for labor anyway.

(in reply to AlCherry)
Post #: 9
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 6:54:53 AM   
Mikind7



Posts: 294
Joined: 10/18/2006
From: Orangevale, Calif.
Status: offline 		What is the part # for that new bearing with spacer included?  I too had a bearing failure and the bearing I recd for replacement was the same as original, needed spacer

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Post #: 10
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 7:00:19 AM   
slankard

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Not to steal the post, but I had the IDS installed on my '07 Ultra after reading about the new torque specs I went to my dealer who installed it. They called MOCO but could not get a straight answer on the add-on IDS. They pretty much told they it only applied to the '08's, but to recheck the torque on the '07's when they are serviced.

(in reply to 62trvler)
Post #: 11
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 7:04:58 AM   
AlCherry


Posts: 120
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Rye, By God, Deep East Texas
Status: offline 		When I get to the shop after while, I'll try to find the box it came in and I'll post in the morning. Allen

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Post #: 12
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 7:25:43 AM   
Richard


Posts: 1162
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		unless Zanottis is buying IDS Kits from some black market source, it is still a HD Part, and the install was done by a HD Dealer..
 
 MOCO Should step up and warrant the product and pay it's dealer's technician to make there customer happy...  That's just good business..

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Post #: 13
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 7:41:06 AM   
TexasRedneck



Posts: 3525
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline 		Agree on the MoCo covering the replacement for the failed part - but don't agree with being unhappy with the dealer that installed a customer-supplied part.  They were paid to do labor only - there was zero profit in the parts for them.  That the part failed is NOT their fault.  It'd be like buying tires online, gettin' 'em installed locally an' finding out that one of 'em is defective.  The sellin' tire dealer will replace the tire, but yer gonna eat the labor.

Guys, sometimes cheaper is more expensive.  I do water treatment, industrial and residential.  That is why I will NOT install products bought elsewhere - I don't want or need the hassle of a defective part that a customer wants me to replace for no charge.  If I sell it, I stand behind it - period.  If not, then I want nothing to do with it, because folks seem to think that others should guarantee stuff that they didn't sell 'em.



_____________________________

George "The Texas Redneck" & Pat "Schoolmarm" Mandry
PGR
2007 FLHTCU - RED, of course!
NRA Life
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Post #: 14
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/10/2008 10:02:00 PM   
goodbirds


Posts: 1285
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: St George, UT
Status: offline 		I have had the same problem with the first kit installed on my bike. I had it done at the dealer and it was the very first one they'd done. They didn't have the special tool to seat the bearing. It went at about 1700 miles. A new bearing was installed, and it went south at about 3500 miles on the speedo. A whole new kit was installed, with the bearing pressed in with the special tool (as was the first replacement bearing), and there have been no problems since.

I am of the opinion that the manufacture of the first kit was probably faulty. In every occurance, the race disintegrated, which sort of implies the seat wasn't milled correctly.

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2007 White Gold Ultra Classic
IDS (smooth.....)

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/Goodbirds/

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Post #: 15
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/11/2008 2:36:36 AM   
jpooch00

 

Posts: 331
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		This whole setup seemed like a pretty poor design to me from the get-go.  It's apparent that the single bearing in the IDS is not adequately supported in the vertical axis.  In other words, there's nothing to keep the sprocket from wobbling crossways on the shaft other than the one bearing.  Think of it as a wheel that has one bearing in the center of it instead of one on each side.  Ball bearings are in no way designed to take this kind of loading.  Plus, it's a sealed bearing and there's no way to periodically lubricate it.  Remember, the IDS system is really nothing but just a bandaid quick-fix that the MOCO came up with to mask an underlying design defect in the under-tested, poorly designed 6 speed tranny/primary drive that was introduced on, and gave so many problems with, the '07 models.

(in reply to goodbirds)
Post #: 16
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/11/2008 5:28:09 AM   
SuperGlideSport

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline 		Same problem here. My IDS bearing failed ~ 2,000 miles. I had a growling noise and slight vibration that were bothering me. I pulled the primary to check the chain and tensioner, looked A-OK. Then decided to remove both front and rear wheels to check wheel bearings which were also A-OK. The IDS support bearing was "rough" and had too much play in it. Ordered and replaced the bearing and now I'm good to go.............probably for another 2,000 miles. The replacement bearing was the same as the original.

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Post #: 17
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/11/2008 6:33:14 AM   
tobyhd1

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: canton ny
Status: offline 		I`m curious about this whole IDS thing.I`ve got a `91 so I am unfamiliar.If I have this correct,the moco did away with the compensator at the motor and are trying to fix the vibrations from the motor/primary @ the rear wheel?So now their fix is unreliable and failing as early as 2000 miles?Is there enough room in the primary (under the cover) to put a compensator back in ?I realize the sprocket tooth count is probably different from the older ones but this can be overcome with some machining and welding and it will not shite the bed after 2000 miles.Can someone tell me where I can see an exploded view of an IDS and newer primary setup so I can figure this out in my mind as to how this can be corrected at the source of the problem instead of the rear wheel.Harley`s bikes had no issues with this until they had to go and change things up and now you all are suffering.Some else besides the moco needs to address this and put out a retro kit that works.Toby

(in reply to SuperGlideSport)
Post #: 18
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/11/2008 10:21:41 AM   
ballpeen



Multiple Time Contributor
Posts: 209
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: S.E. Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasRedneck

Lemme git this straight....

You brought yer own eggs to the restaurant an' had 'em cook 'em 'cuz it wuz cheaper....

Now, you want the cook to help you get a refund 'cuz the eggs were rotten......

You wanted cheaper, ya got cheaper.

If ya want someone willin' to go to bat fer ya, ya might try buyin' stuff from THEM instead of elsewhere.


You make me laugh,, funny...  But to the point.  Tim

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Post #: 19
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/11/2008 11:39:02 AM   
stro1965


Posts: 2072
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bellevue, NE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tobyhd1

I`m curious about this whole IDS thing.I`ve got a `91 so I am unfamiliar.If I have this correct,the moco did away with the compensator at the motor and are trying to fix the vibrations from the motor/primary @ the rear wheel?So now their fix is unreliable and failing as early as 2000 miles?Is there enough room in the primary (under the cover) to put a compensator back in ?I realize the sprocket tooth count is probably different from the older ones but this can be overcome with some machining and welding and it will not shite the bed after 2000 miles.Can someone tell me where I can see an exploded view of an IDS and newer primary setup so I can figure this out in my mind as to how this can be corrected at the source of the problem instead of the rear wheel.Harley`s bikes had no issues with this until they had to go and change things up and now you all are suffering.Some else besides the moco needs to address this and put out a retro kit that works.Toby


The compensator is still there.  This was the "fix" for the noisy 5th gear on the 6 speed tranny's.


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Post #: 20
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/11/2008 9:58:02 PM   
goodbirds


Posts: 1285
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: St George, UT
Status: offline 		Referring to the comment about the bearing being under stress from being supported from just one side. I believe the MOCO directive telling the tech's to torque to 80 lbs from 60 lbs was to address this. That would distribute the stresses over the entire hub. I have 12000 miles on mine since that directive came out (plus installing a new kit) and have had no more problems.

_____________________________

Goodbirds
2007 White Gold Ultra Classic
IDS (smooth.....)

http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g288/Goodbirds/

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Post #: 21
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/12/2008 2:51:32 AM   
jpooch00

 

Posts: 331
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		I assume that the torque specs apply to the bolts that attach the adaptor to the wheel. Or is it the axle nut?  It's hard for me to visualize how increasing the torque on either of those parts would affect the force applied to the bearing since the sprocket and the wheel adaptor are separated by the rubber blocks.  But, on the other hand, if it actually does fix the problem, then I guess that's what really counts.  Ya can't argue with success!

Good luck,

John

(in reply to goodbirds)
Post #: 22
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 5:55:07 AM   
Delmar


Posts: 21
Joined: 5/20/2006
From: South Alabama
Status: offline 		Well I had a nice talk with the service manager at the dealership. The IDS was not on the bike when I purchased the bike so technicaly its not covered under the 2 year warranty. The part itself that i purchased from Zanotti's is only under warranty for 60 days. Seeing that i am a returning customer by buying 3 new bikes in the past 2 years from them, they are going to cover the cost of the bearing and knock off most of the labor and shop fee. My total bill will be under 100 bucks which I am agreeable with.

You guys with the IDS installed on your 07 bikes, would do good to check that bearing for wear and play next chance you get.

_____________________________

07 FLHTCU Vivid Black
Rinehart True Duals
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08 XL1200 Custom (Wifes)
Bone stock (for now)

06 Heritage Classic (Sold)

(in reply to jpooch00)
Post #: 23
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 6:32:43 AM   
Mikind7



Posts: 294
Joined: 10/18/2006
From: Orangevale, Calif.
Status: offline 		Took the IDS off mine after the bearing failed and went back to the original sprocket, not enough noticable difference to make me worry about a second bearing failure down the road and possibly in the middle of BFE  JMHO

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Post #: 24
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 7:36:39 AM   
jpooch00

 

Posts: 331
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		So Harley parts come with a 60 day warranty?  I guess that shows the extent of the MOCO's faith in the durability of its merchandise.  Pathetic!

At least your local dealer treated you right.  Good for him!

John

(in reply to Delmar)
Post #: 25
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 7:43:00 AM   
milo8155


Posts: 128
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline 		I wonder if the newer IDS kits are OK? I had one installed a few weeks back, and I'm leaving Saturday for a trip out West with a few of my buddies! I hope so? I do love the new smoothness involved with the IDS!

milo8155
07 FLHX
03 FXST
Collierville,TN

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Post #: 26
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 7:58:17 AM   
iclick



Posts: 3529
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jpooch00

I assume that the torque specs apply to the bolts that attach the adaptor to the wheel. Or is it the axle nut?  It's hard for me to visualize how increasing the torque on either of those parts would affect the force applied to the bearing since the sprocket and the wheel adaptor are separated by the rubber blocks.  But, on the other hand, if it actually does fix the problem, then I guess that's what really counts.  Ya can't argue with success!



I agree with you that higher TQ on the hub wouldn't affect the sprocket bearing at all.  What crosses my mind is that this technology goes back to 1911 when Royal Enfield invented the "cush drive," and the metrics have been using the system for years or even decades.  HD has implemented it in the V-Rod which has been out for six or eight years, so they have experience with it, too.  Does the V-Rod have the same system of using one roller bearing on the sprocket?  Do the metrics?  If so, the technology must be okay or everybody wouldn't be doing it.


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Post #: 27
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 7:59:34 AM   
bsharris


Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		I find this post interesting because I just bought an IDS kit from Zanotti and had them press the bearing into it first. I haven't installed it yet, but when I received it, I inspected it closely and it appears to have two bearings pressed into the hub, not just one that everyone seems to be talking about. So, if this was indeed a problem it seems they have addressed it. When I get home tonight, I will confirm this and take a picture as detailed as I can and post it here for all to see. What seems like used to be a spacer on the inside of the bearing actually rotates and "feels" and "looks" just like another bearing with the same width. But, I will confirm.


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Post #: 28
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 8:04:16 AM   
vindyl

 

Posts: 236
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline 		IDS is not needed if you ride the bike the way its ment to be ridden. Keep the rpm's over 2k and you won't need IDS. I have no problems on my 96 eg. because I keep it over 2k.

(in reply to bsharris)
Post #: 29
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 8:26:24 AM   
old95

 

Posts: 504
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Flowery Branch, Ga.
Status: offline 		That's why I said heck with the HD tranny & went with a baker 6 speed.

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Post #: 30
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 8:53:13 AM   
Mikind7



Posts: 294
Joined: 10/18/2006
From: Orangevale, Calif.
Status: offline 		The bearing actually has 2 inner races for some reason, if you saw the bearing uninstalled you would see 1 outer and 2 inner races.  Why??? who knows...

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Post #: 31
RE: IDS Bearing Failure - 5/14/2008 9:04:22 AM   
bsharris


Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		If it has two races on the inside and only one on the outside, this actually makes sense that it looks like two bearings when installed. The reason as I see it is because they had to make a bearing as wide as they could but they only have a limited cross section to work with due to diameter limitations. So, they have two races to hold the largest size ball they could in that "cross section" between the od and the id and made it double width with two rings of ball bearings to give the unit as much support as possible on the axle to minimize the radial movement or potential wobble. This actually would work better than two bearings as it will maintain a slight gap between the inner races for frictional and heat reasons as opposed to pressing in two seperate bearings.

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Post #: 32