Dealer Service "Advice"?
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Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 6:39:48 AM
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roxnatwist
Posts: 403
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Coconut Creek, FL
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Just ordered a Power Commander/Rush set up from Jamie at Fuel Moto. I have SE pipes with a SERT currently installed. After talking with Jamie, he advised me to have the SERT reset to just the Stage I download. My bike happens to be in the shop for a couple of warranty issues so I called the service manager to see what they would charge me to reset the SERT. He asked why so I explained to him what I was doing. I wanted the PCIII because I know it is way more user friendly than the SERT and I have no plans for any major engine mods. The service manager told me the PCIII would screw up my bike, it wouldn't run right and I would probably get a check engine light and possibly some codes. Said the cold start function wouldn't work anymore- whatever that is.
I have listened to tons of people here on the forum who seem to favor the PCIII over the SERT and I have heard very few problems with the units. Now, this guy has me second guessing my decision and basically telling me I'm making a huge mistake.
My past experience with asking dealers about performance upgrades is that they spout the company line to keep themselves out of trouble. I guess they don't want the EPA on their backs more than they already are. Obviously, their bikes don't run right from the time they're uncrated because there is a huge industry built around getting them where they should be from the start.
So, after this long post, my question is- did I make the right decision by going with the PCIII/Rush set up and am I just getting HD's corporate B.S.?
I value all of your opinions and look forward to hearing what you all have to say. Thanks for the input- I really appreciate it.
_____________________________
07 FLHRC
Vivid Black
Stage 1
PCIIIUSB
V&H Dresser Duals
Rush 2.25" Slip Ons
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle"
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 6:49:29 AM
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hoosierhog88
Posts: 1302
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Here's my .02 cents worth.
Why would you want to get a PCIII when you already have the SERT installed?
Opinions on this abound, but I simply didn't want a third part "box" hangning from my bike to "fool" the ECM, a device that could fail at an inopportune time. The SERT you have can be modified to run the new mufflers you've ordered. You really didn't need the PCIII IMHO.
I like the idea of being able to modify the ECM to suit my needs and not have to worry about it. The SERT does a great job of that and should I decide to do some "upgrades" to the engine later on down the road, the SERT will do the job.
That said, there are many satisfied customers that use PCIII, Thundermax, etc. for fuel management systems. It's more of a personal preference thing I suppose.
_____________________________
2008 Electra Glide Ultra Classic
Candy Red Sunglo
RUSH Slip-on Slash Up Mufflers w/2.0" Baffles
Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner
Screamin' Eagle Stage I Intake
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:00:04 AM
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roxnatwist
Posts: 403
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Coconut Creek, FL
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The main reason I wanted to go with the PCIII is that I wanted the user friendly adjustments. I will still have the SERT so if it doesn't work out, I can always sell the PCIII and go back to the SERT. I never got the dongle or software for the SERT- bought the bike in 06 and didn't know I was supposed to get anything else. Kinda got screwed but it's too late now.
_____________________________
07 FLHRC
Vivid Black
Stage 1
PCIIIUSB
V&H Dresser Duals
Rush 2.25" Slip Ons
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle"
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:04:18 AM
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dawg
Posts: 5571
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From: Vermont
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What do you mean you never got the dongle? Did you buy the bike new from dealer? Sure you got the SERT and not a download? If you never got the dongle then how could you go back to the SERT? The PCIII is a modem device and can throw codes, did on my 04 but no biggie
_____________________________
''''08 105th anniversary Ultra
D&D Fatcat
Zippers Filter Upgrade Kit
Zippers Redshift 575 cams
EVO Ind. 30 tooth
SERT
www.vtroaddawgs.com
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:06:25 AM
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IM744
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/3/2008
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I have a PCIII and Rinehart TD's and a Big Sucker. My father and I did all of the work on my 08 RK when I had 576 miles and i have put on about the same since. I have had no problems so far and don't anticipate any problems. I have not had it dynoed to "maximize" everything but I am also not racing and don't need the extra two or three HP that the dyno will prob get me. My pipes are not bluing or anything and the PC comes with great support.
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:08:44 AM
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Windup08
Posts: 1043
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The cable for the SERT is a seperate product, you can still get it and the CD. I can understand getting the PCIII if you currently have nothing, but swapping out the SERT for a PCIII is a step backwards in my opinion.
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:08:55 AM
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roxnatwist
Posts: 403
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Coconut Creek, FL
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Bought the bike new in 06. Got the little black box but nothing else. I just found out very recently that I was supposed to get the software and wiring to hook to my PC. Funny how the dealer left out that little tidbit of info. If I can't get them to cough up the disc and wire, I guess if I want/need to go back to the SERT, I can take my bike back and let them remap it. I really hate being tied to the dealer for stuff like that.
_____________________________
07 FLHRC
Vivid Black
Stage 1
PCIIIUSB
V&H Dresser Duals
Rush 2.25" Slip Ons
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle"
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:10:34 AM
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dawg
Posts: 5571
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From: Vermont
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Windup08
The cable for the SERT is a seperate product, you can still get it and the CD. I can understand getting the PCIII if you currently have nothing, but swapping out the SERT for a PCIII is a step backwards in my opinion.
+1
_____________________________
''''08 105th anniversary Ultra
D&D Fatcat
Zippers Filter Upgrade Kit
Zippers Redshift 575 cams
EVO Ind. 30 tooth
SERT
www.vtroaddawgs.com
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:12:56 AM
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hoosierhog88
Posts: 1302
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IM744
I have a PCIII and Rinehart TD's and a Big Sucker. My father and I did all of the work on my 08 RK when I had 576 miles and i have put on about the same since. I have had no problems so far and don't anticipate any problems. I have not had it dynoed to "maximize" everything but I am also not racing and don't need the extra two or three HP that the dyno will prob get me. My pipes are not bluing or anything and the PC comes with great support.
Ok, but the guy already has a SERT installed. Jamie is suggesting the owner have the SERT "back install" if you will, the ECM settings.
I'm not saying a PCIII is a bad idea... what I am saying is I don't think this fellow needs a PCIII since he's got the SERT. I would suggest buying the RUSH mufflers and then reprogram the SERT accordingly. He'd save a bunch of money.
That said and after I read another post from him, he states he doensn't have a SERT dongle, which is the "interface" to the ECM. THAT in and of itself is a big problem, as he needs the dongle to change the SERT, even to take it back to a "download" state.
Does any of what I said make sense?
_____________________________
2008 Electra Glide Ultra Classic
Candy Red Sunglo
RUSH Slip-on Slash Up Mufflers w/2.0" Baffles
Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner
Screamin' Eagle Stage I Intake
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:16:43 AM
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hoosierhog88
Posts: 1302
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This thread is changing quickly.
Do you have the little black box (the SERT interface box) or not? If you do, that is all you need for your dealer to change the ECM on your bike, as the dealer will have the necessary cables... provided you need them, to tune your bike.
AND, if you have the dongle, you can buy a cable, install your mufflers yourself and re-tune your bike as necessary. There are people here that can help you do that.
BUT, if you are really interested in true performance, buy the muffs only, take your bike to a dealer and have them re-tune with the new mufflers installed with a DYNO tune.
I must add that if you add a PCIII to a bike that has a SERT already installed, even if you back-modify the ECM to "download" state, your long lasting happiness could be in jeopardy, imho.
_____________________________
2008 Electra Glide Ultra Classic
Candy Red Sunglo
RUSH Slip-on Slash Up Mufflers w/2.0" Baffles
Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner
Screamin' Eagle Stage I Intake
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:17:17 AM
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drrandall1
Posts: 3054
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Hmmmm. When I was trying to decide between the Sert and PCIII I found the Sert was way more popular here. I went with the sert. If you have your dealer do your service you really need to stick with the Sert. It is a Harley product.
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08 Street Glide, Sert, Rinehart True Duals, Big City Thunder Monster Baffles(LOUD)!!!!
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:24:26 AM
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OregonRoadKing
Posts: 231
Joined: 5/10/2007
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I've had the PCIII on another bike and it seemed to run fine except that I had continual decel popping issues that never did go away, though dyno tuning made them a little less. It may have been the Hooker pipes. Don't know. When I got the new bike, the service manager and others in the shop advised SERT as far superior and more adjustments so that a better tune was possible. They are not totally company line as they also told me to rip off the stock pipes and put on something nicer. There was much arguing over the best pipes, which was fun to listen to. Everyone's got an opinion. My experience with the SERT is that it is working just fine with lots of power and runs smooth.
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2008 Ultra Classic
2-into-1 V&H, SE A/C, SERT
2001 Road King Classic - Sold
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:31:44 AM
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hoosierhog88
Posts: 1302
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I wouldn't argue if the PCIII is a good product or not. In fact, I think it is a good product and fills the needs of many customers.
That said, and for this particular example, an owner already has a SERT. He wants to change out his mufflers to RUSH mufflers. He really just needs to re-flash the ECM using the SERT. Adding a PCIII with a SERT already installed may have less than desireable results and will cost him $$$ to buy something he really doesn't need.
_____________________________
2008 Electra Glide Ultra Classic
Candy Red Sunglo
RUSH Slip-on Slash Up Mufflers w/2.0" Baffles
Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner
Screamin' Eagle Stage I Intake
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:32:14 AM
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IM744
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/3/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hoosierhog88
This thread is changing quickly.
Do you have the little black box (the SERT interface box) or not? If you do, that is all you need for your dealer to change the ECM on your bike, as the dealer will have the necessary cables... provided you need them, to tune your bike.
AND, if you have the dongle, you can buy a cable, install your mufflers yourself and re-tune your bike as necessary. There are people here that can help you do that.
BUT, if you are really interested in true performance, buy the muffs only, take your bike to a dealer and have them re-tune with the new mufflers installed with a DYNO tune.
I must add that if you add a PCIII to a bike that has a SERT already installed, even if you back-modify the ECM to "download" state, your long lasting happiness could be in jeopardy, imho.
You are correct. IMO I just dont think that i should be paying the dealer to retune every time i decide to change my mind. That is the big advantage to the PCIII. I think that the benefits of both are about the same and if he already has the SERT and is only going to make this cahnge and no more to stay with the SERT.
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:35:00 AM
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hduc2005
Posts: 319
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From: Monroe, WI
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+2 on keeping the sert take the money you saved and have the bike dynoed
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:41:32 AM
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Trapskelly
Posts: 205
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From: Houston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hoosierhog88
I wouldn't argue if the PCIII is a good product or not. In fact, I think it is a good product and fills the needs of many customers.
That said, and for this particular example, an owner already has a SERT. He wants to change out his mufflers to RUSH mufflers. He really just needs to re-flash the ECM using the SERT. Adding a PCIII with a SERT already installed may have less than desireable results and will cost him $$$ to buy something he really doesn't need.
 Well put.
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 7:56:38 AM
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rerb95
Posts: 154
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As far as paying the dealer to retune, what do you really want? I mean that would be like me saying I dont want the dealer to charge me when I want a part installed... just my thought, belive me when I Say I think that the dealer charges way too much money to install most things if not all. But like most of these guys are trying to say is that you already spent the big money for the sert and addign the PCMIII is not going to do anything for you...
Just my opinion on reading these posts... have the bike dynoed I have heard great things about this process... and I dont think we are talking 2-3hp as someone said I think it is more than that... from what I have been told although it varies depending on how good the guy is that is running the machine and the weather and humidity ect ect... good luck in your choices and let us know what your final choice was...
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 8:09:22 AM
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uweldit
Posts: 403
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From: N.E. Oklahoma
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 9:05:45 AM
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Peppa1
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I'm with just about everyone on this issue, why in the world would you go to a PC III when you already have the SERT on your bike. Purchase the pipes of your choice and then have the bike retuned for the pipes and you are good to go. Giving up the SERT for a PC III would not be smart and $$$ move IMHO. I know Jamie sells alot of good stuff but he seems to have just one set up going, (Rush & PC III) not to say that isn't OK, but if a customer already has the SERT I would think he would only recommend mufflers !!!
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2008 FLHTCU
White Gold Pearl / Black Pearl
V&H Ovals & Fuel Pak
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 9:55:25 AM
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bigjohn1percenter
Posts: 427
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stick with the SERT, i have seen too many PC fail and leave the bike on the side of the road, even saw one fail while on the dyno, make you dealer give you your cables and disc, you paid for it. look on the sale order to see what SERT you bought, the PN will give you a idea if it was a earlier version that came with the cables or without, but they all come with the disc......i believe
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Blacked Out Front End
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Biker Life, Not Bike Week
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 10:07:27 AM
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jakedog
Posts: 1681
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From: Westfield, IN
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Cables do not come with the SERT nowadays.....
JD
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 10:13:53 AM
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irishviking
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 2:08:15 PM
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dowork08
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i have the PCIII and bub 7's and like it, i have had other pcIII's also. But if i did already have a sert i would probaly just stick with it ya know
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 3:25:12 PM
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Gart
Posts: 456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: roxnatwist
Bought the bike new in 06. Got the little black box but nothing else. I just found out very recently that I was supposed to get the software and wiring to hook to my PC. Funny how the dealer left out that little tidbit of info. If I can't get them to cough up the disc and wire, I guess if I want/need to go back to the SERT, I can take my bike back and let them remap it. I really hate being tied to the dealer for stuff like that.
The little black box is the interface that you need. The dealer would have the cables necessary and the "maps" on their computer. You could get the software and the cables if you want to try to do it yourself.
The black box is the important part. Don't lose it.
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 3:58:28 PM
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bikergeoff
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Two club bro's, one with an 07, one with an 08. BOTH have a PCIII and Rush mufflers set up by Jamie. NO CODES, NO ENGINE LIGHTS. Your dealer is handing you a line of BS. I have an 01 with a PCIII and a V&H Pro Pipe. 73,600 miles and guess what? No problems with the PC. If you don't plan on any engine mods, and you don't want to be tied at the hip to your local stealership, go with the setup from fuelmoto, you won't be sorry! Besides, if Jamie sets it up, you don't need a dyno tune.
< Message edited by bikergeoff -- 5/15/2008 4:04:48 PM >
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RE: Dealer Service "Advice"? - 5/15/2008 4:16:42 PM
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hoosierhog88
Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/22/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bikergeoff
Two club bro's, one with an 07, one with an 08. BOTH have a PCIII and Rush mufflers set up by Jamie. NO CODES, NO ENGINE LIGHTS. Your dealer is handing you a line of BS. I have an 01 with a PCIII and a V&H Pro Pipe. 73,600 miles and guess what? No problems with the PC. If you don't plan on any engine mods, and you don't want to be tied at the hip to your local stealership, go with the setup from fuelmoto, you won't be sorry! Besides, if Jamie sets it up, you don't need a dyno tune.
Re-read what the original post stated... he already has a SERT and is considering adding a PCIII. The dealer questions the bikes's ability to run properly with BOTH SERT and PCIII.
I agree with the dealer in this case. The PCIII is a quality product, but it DOES NOT re-flash the ECM like the SERT does. Having BOTH PCIII and the SERT is an expensive idea that will not yield positive results.
_____________________________
2008 Electra Glide Ultra Classic
Candy Red Sunglo
RUSH Slip-on Slash Up Mufflers w/2.0" Baffles
Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner
Screamin' Eagle Stage I Intake
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