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crate motors - 5/18/2008 9:36:41 AM

twobanger

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/13/2007
Status: offline I have been reading about all the work guys put into their motors and they sometimes spent 4 to 5 thousand bucks.
It is starting to look as if a 100 or so cube crate motor with a warrenty makes more sense than a trial and error build which
can be disasterous and expensive.
How bout that!

Post #: 1

RE: crate motors - 5/18/2008 8:34:02 PM

Harleypingman

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline
Not sure what you mean when you refer to "trial and error." Lots of guys on HDF have built Head-Quarters 95, 103, 107, 113, and 120 motors using HQ ported stock heads, HQ cams, HQ bored cylinders and HQ spec'd pistons, etc. and been pleased with the results--there isn't any "trial and error" in that regard.

You can see that you basically pick your performance to suit your riding style here:

http://www.head-quarters-usa.com/ushome.html

If "trial and error" refers to guys buying quality parts that are not necessarily compatible with each other and ending up with dissappointing results, redoing heads, cams, etc. in the search for the performance they could have had buying a known package from a reputable vendor, then "yeah" they wasted a lot of money.

_____________________________

CMA, Crossties Chapter (GA)
IBA 26580
'04 FLHTPX

(in reply to twobanger)

Post #: 2

RE: crate motors - 5/18/2008 9:39:52 PM

mentor70

Posts: 1082
Joined: 12/24/2006
From: Diamond Bar, California
Status: offline I cobbled up a home brew 95 which was a letdown to say the least.

I wish I had heard about head-quarters before I had pissed away 2K on hi quality but missmatched parts!

I think the 95 kit is plenty for a dyna and the 113s must be scary and the 120s total animals!

_____________________________

HQ 95 ci, .575 Firestorm cams
DTT ignition
Stage eleventeen HVP heads.
10.2 to 1 comp.
Miknui 42mm
D&D fat cat

(in reply to Harleypingman)

Post #: 3

RE: crate motors - 5/19/2008 3:00:41 PM

Colonel Sanders

Posts: 74
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline Reasons I don't want a crate engine:

1. I want to KNOW that the crank has been trued, balanced, and plugged.

2. I want to have the final call on what set of cams goes into it (with some helpful suggestions and guidelines from an expert like Steve at GMR.) Same goes for the heads, cylinders, pistons, carb, etc...

3. I want to be able to custom tailor the engine to best suit my needs. You can't one-size-fits-all that.

4. I want to be able to talk straight to "The Man" when I have questions about or problems with my build.

5. I do not want an aftermarket oil pump or lifters in my build. Too many horror stories for me. Stock lifters and a late model HD oil pump with a billet cam plate for me.

6. I want GREAT performance...not just average performance.

7. I want to be proud of my build like I am my bike. I want it to be different than the next guy's. I like personnalization! I yawn everytime I see yet another S&S or RevTech engine.

8. When it's a package put together buy a professional it's certainly NOT a trial and error affair. They already have the different configurations figured out for you. You just have to explain to them what it is you need and expect and they can make it happen. You simply can't do that with an off the shelf run of the mill crate engine.

(in reply to twobanger)

Post #: 4

RE: crate motors - 5/20/2008 6:06:43 AM

ScooterJammer

Posts: 219
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline I agree with the responses so far, the 'horror stories' you hear about are mainly when people buy mismatched performance parts that just don't work well together. HQ and others have spent a hell of a lot of time and money to develop performance packages that work. The years of experience you get when dealing with a reputable performance house is worth it's weight in gold. I plan on doing at least 95" upgrade on my '04 FLHRCI in November. I say 'at least' because I haven't decided if I want to crack the cases and upgrade the bottom-end at the same time. If I decide to go that way I'll be looking at a 113" build.

_____________________________

ScooterJammer
'04 FLHRCI
Doherty Power PACC
S&S 510g Cams
SE Adjustable Push Rods
PCIIIUSB
RB Racing 2-1 LSR Exhaust
Dyno Results: 88.5 lbs TQ @ 4,050 RPM and 77.4 HP @ 5,175 RPM

(in reply to twobanger)

Post #: 5

RE: crate motors - 5/20/2008 2:33:29 PM

1 Bad Bob

Posts: 16
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline because that is part of the allure to build your own or to have a part in building your own motor. as stated by others, most reputable shops (whether dealers or indies) have put in the time and effort to develop reliable engine packages that fit the wants and needs of a varying degree of riders. i know it was pretty cool for me to decide what i wanted in a motor and had the local shop put it together for me.

to each his own. who knows, when i wear this one out, an S&S 124 may be in my future

_____________________________

2008 vivid black fat bob
103 ci
se acr heads
se forged pistons
se 211 cam
se 50mm throttle body
python 2n2 pipes
hd race tuner

dyno numbers: 103/108

(in reply to twobanger)

Post #: 6

RE: crate motors - 5/20/2008 5:39:54 PM

Hillsidecyclecom

Posts: 252
Joined: 12/12/2007
Status: offline We currently have 3,124" in the works, 2, 117", a 107", 2,97" (1 Evo, 1 Shovel), a 95",2 panheads, one is a 74" EL, and another 84", a '59 Iron XL, 2 ,80" Evos.
These are not crate engines. No mistakes, other than the clients can't wait to use em.

(in reply to 1 Bad Bob)

Post #: 7

RE: crate motors - 5/21/2008 10:52:47 AM

gunnert

Posts: 414
Joined: 9/16/2006
Status: offline As a shade tree mechanic I went with a crate motor mainly because I don't like down time. It's very frustrating to have to take something back to the shop and pay again to have it done again. I know there are reputable builders out there like Scott and the guys at Hillside. Problem is, I don't live close to them... I know it's not "my build", but then again, if I took it to a shop it would be "their build"...

_____________________________

Duane
1999 HD FLHRCI
116" S&S/Woods TW8G cams
S&S VFI ECU and Tuned Runner Injection
2008 BMW K1200GT
2008 Custom Bagger
124" S&S Single Bore, VFI
Rolling Thunder 200mm Frame

(in reply to Hillsidecyclecom)

Post #: 8

RE: crate motors - 5/22/2008 6:32:41 AM

Dalton

Posts: 5982
Joined: 2/12/2007
From: Northeast Ohio
Status: offline
No risk in going with proven performance packages from reputable dealers like HQ or GMR and others. My preference - HQ due to proven, repeatable results. Crate motors are fine but usually are a bit "detuned" compared to what you can put together yourself.

A crate motor will save you down time, but as others have said, I prefer building as I know exactly what is in there, and ensure the crank is worked properly, and all components are a good match. And $5k is a whole lot less that $8-$10k for an installed crate motor.

_____________________________

Veni, Vidi, Vici

(in reply to gunnert)

Post #: 9

RE: crate motors - 5/22/2008 8:37:46 AM

HDWRENCH

Posts: 810
Joined: 7/12/2005
Status: offline If you do not look at cost and only look at what a crate engine has to offer then you might see a different side of the coin. Take the 124 S&S T/C engine. You are using a S&S style oil pump, special cam plate, etc. This system is only through S&S and you are stuck with that when it comes to trying a cam swap what then?? Those engines are set up rather loose as they are a crate engine. Meaning not built to a users wants. When we use the S&S cylinders we order up +10 pistons from the get go so the engine has the correct piston to wall spec. Got a set of new 124 S&S cylinders that we just sent out after rework. The stock cylinder had .0031 taper, was at .0021 out of round and had .003 piston to wall. SO that is a perfect example of getting crate style parts.

The crate engines are more of a one size fits all. Where the engine we just did for CS was built to what he wanted. There are plenty of times where a crate engine works. Now with the new 07 08 bikes the case's have changed, and you are still only able to buy a A style engine. R&R is working on B cases but they are not out yet. And I do not know if the NEW style oiling system on the 07-08 bikes are being made by anyone yet. Sometimes you have to use the stock engine and work from there.

_____________________________

02 deuce
124 inch efi
Zippers 54 mm T/B
white bro e-pipe
200 rear tire

WWW.GMRPERFORMANCE.COM

AS FAST AS YOU WANT TO GO!!!!!!!!!!

(in reply to Dalton)

Post #: 10

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