RE: 2007 Tranny problem!
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/17/2006 4:39:58 PM
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Capt.Bob
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I orderd mine on the 13th. of July. It was built on the 25th. of July and it arrived at the dealer on the 1st of Aug. I was riding it on the 2nd. That help you out.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/17/2006 4:48:28 PM
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Capt.Bob
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quote:
hopefully, they'll be as "generous" with me as they've been with you.
I don't think they are being generous at all. Have you forgot what these things cost. I think they are trying to do the right thing. I believe it is the least they should do but I am thankfull. It could have been a struggle. Also it ain't over with yet. I wish you luck on your deal too.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/17/2006 4:52:18 PM
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kv4eg
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt.Bob
quote:
hopefully, they'll be as "generous" with me as they've been with you.
I don't think they are being generous at all. Have you forgot what these things cost. I think they are trying to do the right thing. I believe it is the least they should do but I am thankfull. It could have been a struggle. Also it ain't over with yet. I wish you luck on your deal too.
...that's why I put "generous" in quotes - like you said, it's really the right thing to do. Good luck to you as well, sir!
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/17/2006 6:16:46 PM
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Geezer Glide Bob
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Any thoughts out there, I have an 03 Ultra that I am trading in on a 07 Ultra next week. I don't want to have a long drawn out issue with this tranny noise. What are your thoughts, cancel the 07 and ride the 03 or trade and HOPE Harley finds a fix or repair for the 07 issue. Let me know your thoughts.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/17/2006 6:43:00 PM
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randyv1
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I have read the posts and also the statement from Harley about the starter noise. I find it interesting as I am an engineer and a pretty good mechanic as well. I would say that if there is a 5th gear transmission noise that sounds like a “coffee can full of rocks”, something is not right. Gears should mesh smoothly and without that type of noise. I can understand the explanation of the starter noise “Because of the increased inertia in the rotating components in the driveline, their rotational speed cannot increase as fast as the engine, so the springs in the compensator momentarily bottom and results in the sound that you hear” BUT do they have the correct springs? Can the spring (s) be changed to variable rate spring to eliminate the spring from bottoming out? I would have to see the design but “BOTTOMING OUT” does not sound good. What this means to me is that when it “BOTTOMS OUT” there is a shock load put on the entire assembly and fatigue failure may occur to a component. In any event, I believe there is room for improvement and even if the condition does not cause a problem the noise which apparently is objectionable should be eliminated.
The transmission noise that has been reported does not sound normal. Granted gears make noise and as I have not heard it for myself I can not say that it is a “gear noise”. As the comments range from “whine” (which straight cut gears do make) to “coffee can full of rocks” which sounds like a backlash or other assembly or design problem, it is hard to tell if there is one or multiple problems with the transmission.
Side Note: I remember when I just completed my 1970 Buick GS and took it for a ride and could hear the differential gear noise. The “problem” was a result of my removal of the rubber bushings between the transmission and the frame to prevent wheel hop, so the “normal” sound was just transferred through the body to where I could here it.
I do know there are some auto manufacturers that put a lot of emphases on noise and make sure the driver hears the ones that they want them too.
Note: As I have over 20 years of manufacturing and design engineering experience I can tell you a few things:
1.You can test the crap out of a design and still have problems in the field that do not surface in testing although the problems reported here should have picked up in testing.
2.There are so many manufacturing issues to deal with when putting out a new design. How this process is managed makes a big difference in what the customer gets. Knowing this I would not buy a product of a new design until it is proven (but somebody has to).
3.I am sure Harley is aware of the problem and money talks so if sales drop or recalls are up they will fix the problem. If customers accept the noise it will stay there until maybe the 2008 models come out. It is your money so speak up.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/18/2006 7:51:07 AM
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Capt.Bob
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quote:
“Because of the increased inertia in the rotating components in the driveline, their rotational speed cannot increase as fast as the engine, so the springs in the compensator momentarily bottom and results in the sound that you hear” BUT do they have the correct springs? Can the spring (s) be changed to variable rate spring to eliminate the spring from bottoming out? I would have to see the design but “BOTTOMING OUT” does not sound good. What this means to me is that when it “BOTTOMS OUT” there is a shock load put on the entire assembly and fatigue failure may occur to a component.
I am not an engineer but what you said makes a lot of sense to me. My other vice however is firearms. If one of my autoloading pistols bottoms out the spring on recoil. I replace it with a stronger spring. It is common sense not engineering. I think this will be the next thing on the docket.
http://bobbyhill.home.att.net
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/18/2006 2:44:05 PM
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gunrunner
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quote:
ORIGINAL: randyv1
Note: As I have over 20 years of manufacturing and design engineering experience I can tell you a few things:
1.You can test the crap out of a design and still have problems in the field that do not surface in testing although the problems reported here should have picked up in testing.
2.There are so many manufacturing issues to deal with when putting out a new design. How this process is managed makes a big difference in what the customer gets. Knowing this I would not buy a product of a new design until it is proven (but somebody has to).
3.I am sure Harley is aware of the problem and money talks so if sales drop or recalls are up they will fix the problem. If customers accept the noise it will stay there until maybe the 2008 models come out. It is your money so speak up.
Harleys real world testing center in taledaga alabama has been using this motor and 6 speed for two years and many,many thousands of miles, the 06 dyna has this 6 speed, so thats adding a year of consumer testing, The noise is noticed by ultra owners most and is because of the extra body work reflecting the sound, as the new 96 motor is extremely quieter than the noisey 88's these people are just not use to the noise, same as they werent used to the 88's till they figured out its just the way they are. Think how you would act if you never had heard a diesel motor and someone gave you one to drive, Id be afarid to pull out of the driveway. but it would have been fine. new animal, new sound
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Past prides, 66 BSA chopper, 63 pan chopper.73 cop FLH,84 FLH,
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/18/2006 10:02:04 PM
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DSW1203
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I was at the dealer today. My dealer is terrific, and they have been talking to hd too. They are going to replace the fluid with something new/special. step one i guess. I'm having dealer document everything. We'll see how it goes. It's sad because I really love the bike. Time will tell.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/19/2006 7:43:49 AM
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kv4eg
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt.Bob
quote:
Have any of you had the opportunity to take them back? If so, what's the outcome? One member said if you can't fix it, sell it! What's the status on that?
I believe you are refering to me. I did take my 07 Ultra back to the dealer Tuesday morning. I just got off of the phone with the dealer today. He said he called the MOCO and they told him they were sending him a new transmission for my bike. He told me as long as he has been service manager at the dealer. He has never had the MOCO not give him any guff at all about a major component change under warranty. He was more than a little surprised. He said I should have my bike back in a week to ten days. I can handle the whine but riding something that sounds like Eli Whitney invented is too much to ask. I think this problem is a little more wide spread than it appears.
http://bobbyhill.home.att.net
I'll be getting a new transmission under warranty as well - it's already ordered but I'll be rideless for about 2 weeks (hope it's less).
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/19/2006 3:26:41 PM
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GOBB
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I now have 3,500 miles on my Road King and the noise is still there. The dealer has tried three different gear lubes in it and that didn't help. I think the next step will be a different transmission.I have two friends that bought 07 touring bikes and their transmissions are fine so we know the problem is fixable. I seen a cutaway of the transmission and it's the same transmission they put in the 06 bikes. I'll tell you guys that at 75 to 80 mph the bike is the best ride I ever had. The starter noise is there because they improved the starter motor so it disengages a little differently, but that noise seemed to go away with some miles. I get some compensator noise at low rpm's which I was told they will also fix.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/24/2006 11:26:35 AM
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RustyCor
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Don't buy the first production of anything. Let the bugs get worked out for a couple of years first.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/24/2006 5:49:53 PM
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Capt.Bob
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quote:
so we know the problem is fixable
You are so right about that. See my post on the general chat forum. You don't have to ride a messed up bike.
http://bobbyhill.home.att.net
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/25/2006 8:58:22 AM
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JollyRogers
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I just got an 07 RK and on the ride home I also noticed a 5th gear wine, but it never has sounded like someone beating on it or a coffee can of rocks. I had test drove the bike 30 miles before buying it, but never got above 50 because of breakin and so never got above 4th. On the ride home I finally hit 50 mile on the odometer and got to go 60 mph and grabbed 5th... oh the whining. But it started to become less pronounced as I am getting more miles on it and it is non-existant above 60 and I usually shift into 5th around there and cruise about 62 mph for the work commute. I know I defintely am not using 5th below 55. When I hit about 70 I shift to 6 th and it runs like melted butter... such a sweet ride. So I will just ride it and see how it plays out. If it ever gets worse the dealer will see it for the noise, but so far it looks like it is getting better.
I also right away noticed the big clunk when starting and thought it unusual. I was gonna take it to the dealer for this, but see now that there is a tech notice on it, so I know what my answer will be there. The heat is very noticable on the bike also. Was told its because of the crossover pipe... I am not so sure...it might be the bike runs so lean outta the box. But I am not getting any hesitation or surging so hopefully its all right there. Probably next year I'll put pipes on it and such and richen it up with a tuner when all that is avail.
I also own an 06 Dyna and love the bike, so I was confident on the 07's tranny. I have never noticed any noise from tranny on the Dyna, only that 6th was unusable unless I was above 65-70. Since I added pipes though to the Dyna I wouldn't hear if the transmission fell out, unless I was cruisin at the right "purr" speed.
< Message edited by JollyRogers -- 9/21/2007 6:25:26 PM >
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/25/2006 3:58:33 PM
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drod
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Mine has the beating the coffee can sound. To me it sounds more like the gears rattling together. Riding when giving it some throttle it seems there would be pressure in the gears to keep them tight. At 50 mph it is so bad I shift back to 4th get it to stop. This sure takes the excitment out of a new bike! I'm sick!
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/25/2006 5:54:42 PM
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pittguy
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I had a 4speed tranny lock up between gears and it left the frame in big pieces.Rear wheel lockup around 40mph.Hope HD finds out the cause on the 07s before a law suit prompts a massive recall. If heavier oils dont quiet them up then it sounds like a clearance issue,faulty shifter drum clearance.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/25/2006 6:04:04 PM
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Hackd
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I think HD ought to send me a new bike every year so I can test it out in a 'real world' environment for them.....And maybe take it into a couple of different dealers to see how they work on it.......
Oh....Was I dreaming?
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/26/2006 8:15:09 AM
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WhiteKnuckle
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For what it's worth, my Ultra with 2000 miles and synthetic in the tranny is much quieter than it was new. Also, it's my opinion that there are two different noises going on there - the transmission whine in 5th gear, and a primary chain noise in some other gears. The new auto primary tensioner may not be keeping the chain as quiet as the old tensioner - when I'm hearing the "whack" sound, I'm sure that's the primary chain because I can make the same noise by shifting to 6th and getting on the gas with the bike under 2500 rpm; and once I start the "whack" sound like that, I can stop it by backing off the throttle.
I really think the "bucket of bolts" issues are related to primary chain tensioner, not the tranny per se. I think the sound is worse in 5th because the straight cut gears vibrate more and start the chain noise.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 6:50:13 AM
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Capt.Bob
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quote:
I really think the "bucket of bolts" issues are related to primary chain tensioner, not the tranny per se. I think the sound is worse in 5th because the straight cut gears vibrate more and start the chain noise.
I think that was one of the things that the MoCo told the tech to check before they agreed to swap out my tranny. If Harley didn't know they had a problem they would not agree to these swaps. I think after reading a lot of posts that some of the guys on this forum are going through denial about their bikes.
http://bobbyhill.home.att.net
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 7:39:36 AM
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Hackd
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Capt.Bob...I think after reading a lot of posts that some of the guys on this forum are going through denial about their bikes...
I think it's probably a healthy dose of disbelief....Like in, 'I just dropped $20K on this motorcycle, it's brand new and it sounds like crap'.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 9:39:19 AM
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WhiteKnuckle
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I think it's the primary chain because my bike will make the exact same noise in other gears if I lug the engine and get on the throttle. I'm very happy with my bike, I'm sorry you guys aren't.
No matter what product a company builds, there are a certain percentage of people who aren't going to be happy with it. Those same people tend to not be happy with anything else, either, and they tend to want to talk the rest of the world into being as miserable as they are. I remember the guy who wanted Harley to give him a new bike because he had a squeak in his front end. Whatever. I guess it's true that misery loves company.
Now, if you'll excuse me, it's a beautiful Sunday morning and I'm going riding.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 11:04:44 AM
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lschultz
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Yes it is a nice Sunday morning and I am working
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 2:35:59 PM
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tbone52
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I was prepared to order an '07 Superglide. I know that this transmission was in the '06 Superglide. I haven't read any posts concerning this problem with the '06 glides. I believe I will wait a while to see if this continues to be an issue. I don't know if there were changes made in the 6 speed between '06 and '07 so that might be a problem. I have looked through this forum for transmission problems with the '06 bikes and can find almost nothing. I might even consider looking for a used '06 glide or maybe one that is leftover (slim chance, I know).
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 6:14:13 PM
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drod
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White Knuckle where do you live? I would love for you to ride my bike and tell me you could live with it. If you don't know first hand the problem you might want to give us whiners a break!
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 6:48:13 PM
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wired
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Just got back from a 160 mile put.Trying to get the whinning out of my ears.Only in 5th gear.Thought I would do some research when I found this web site.I've been a tech for 26 years in the car and cycle industry for various manufactures.Talked to more engineers and tech support people then I care to remember.This is a problem,if it were normal it would be on all the six speeds ,from what I UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT.Given time I do believe it will be addressed and corrected.It is very disheartening I know.My dealer will know about this also.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 7:28:18 PM
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drod
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Thank-you, Thank-you! Seems the only ones that understand this problem are the ones that stuck with one. The people that were lucky enough to get a good should give us a chance.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 7:40:15 PM
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WhiteKnuckle
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Just stop implying that all the '07s are POS's and those of us who aren't crying to the Moco all day long are in denial. My bike is fine - I guess yours isn't. If Harley comes out with some kind of recall, I'll take mine in. If they don't, I'll ride it.
My tranny was noisy when the bike was new. I was concerned that it was a real mechanical problem, so I took the lowers off to see how much of the noise was perception and how much was real. The noise was much less prominent then, which told me it was more perception than mechanical. I got synthetic into the tranny at 1000 miles, now I have 2000 miles on the bike, I've got the lowers back on and it sounds OK. I can make the primary chain slap if I get on the gas at low RPM, and I can hear a little sing in 5th, but it's nothing to worry about. It's fine.
If yours is broken, I'm sorry to hear it. I love mine.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/27/2006 7:58:56 PM
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drod
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I was not implying all 07's are POS's. I think the bike is great, except for the transmission. It's funny, I wanted a 07 for the 6 speed. Not ha! ha! funny, strange funny.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/28/2006 7:57:58 AM
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barkster99
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Traded my Sportie for 07 FLHRC 2 weeks ago. Absolutely in love but... that 5th gear rattle is going to drive me nuts, to the point of trying to avoid 5th gear, though 6th has some of it too. It goes in for 1000 mile check later this week. I'm going to raise hell and see what happens. If they want to keep it for 2 weeks for new tranny, I can live with it until winter. 2 weeks of down time is probably 25% of the decent riding time left.
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/28/2006 11:01:45 AM
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Thorns
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So the 07 tranny is being replaced by another 07 tranny that was sitting on a skid waiting for a line slot? I think you're going to have the same noise all over again, if it isn't the transmission. I would complain, document your complaints, and see what is causing your complaint, before replacing the trans. Sounds like the gears are loading and unloading which could be the result of the primary or compensator spring dampner not functioning properly, as suggested earlier. Don't get me wrong, if you don't like your new bike...complain, but letting the dealer replace the transmission when the fix is in doubt will only make you more frustrated when the tech has worked your new bike over with a scratch here or there, and a sloppy trans replacement, and the noise is still there. Good luck, and don't let up voicing your dissatisfaction.
Thorns
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RE: 2007 Tranny problem! - 8/28/2006 1:42:43 PM
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BVBOB
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Now I think you are on to something, It sounds like the gears are loading and unloading, so lets consider another thing that could cause this. When I purchased my 06 Dyna with the 6 speed I noticed the noise the first day I rode it and got it to temp. Not so noisy when cooler out. I also had the problem of this bike surging at cruise speed very badly. I attribute a lot of the noise to the engine just plain lugging (causing loading and unloading) at the ridiculously lean AFR these bikes are tuned with from the factory. After I tuned my bike with the SERT twinscan/WEGO setup I have eliminated the surging and the noise, the bike just pulls better in 5th and 6th gear. Also the trans oil change at 1000 mile was a definate improvement. I do hear the whir of the gears a little yet but I kinda like it, reminds me of a geardrive cam setup on a smallblock chevy. I hope this does not become a major issue and I can understand people being PO'edafter spending 20g's plus on a new bike and having unwanted noise, normal or not. I hope if it is a manufacture or design flaw they fix it quick, my 07 ULTRA is due for delivery in November.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thorns
So the 07 tranny is being replaced by another 07 tranny that was sitting on a skid waiting for a line slot? I think you're going to have the same noise all over again, if it isn't the transmission. I would complain, document your complaints, and see what is causing your complaint, before replacing the trans. Sounds like the gears are loading and unloading which could be the result of the primary or compensator spring dampner not functioning properly, as suggested earlier. Don't get me wrong, if you don't like your new bike...complain, but letting the dealer replace the transmission when the fix is in doubt will only make you more frustrated when the tech has worked your new bike over with a scratch here or there, and a sloppy trans replacement, and the noise is still there. Good luck, and don't let up voicing your dissatisfaction.
Thorns
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