Catless Headers / Misc
 

Need your operational experience please. I’d like to get catless headers and a retune after my warranty expires and have a few questions.

• Marketing hype aside, does any brand perform better than another? Doesn’t appear to be much technology in headers but I could be wrong. Some claim an HP increase I guess as a result of less restriction?
• For such a simple mod do I need a $300-$400 aftermarket tuner or is there a ‘basic’ tune from dealer that does the job? If it;s necessary, I’d choose the Power Vision as my dealer is well versed in it.
• Does not having a cat change the sound, and if so, how? I have 4” Street Cannons that sound great but I’m considering S&S MK45’s (4.5”) for a little deeper rumble.
• Do I need a new air filter? I’ve read here that the stock 103 flows well and I also like its looks.
• Would I lose torque changing from 4” to 4.5”slip ons?
• Will fuel economy change? I’d expect a slight decrease given it’s going richer.
• Would a dyno tune add any value for this type ofmod?
• Is there noticeable heat reduction for passenger? This is a big selling point for my wife!
• Is there a noticeable performance improvement?

Ok that’s it, and sorry for all the questions. Just trying to make an informed decision. Bike runs great as it is but since I’m likely getting new slip-ons I figure I may as well go a little further, if the payback is there. Have also thought about Stage 2, but if I like these results I’ll just stay put.

Thanks!

I removed the cat from the stock header after the warranty expired this year on my 15 Ultra. I bought the Power Vision from Fuel Moto set up for all stock and cat removed. Done a few auto tunes and runs fine. I did not notice much difference with the mpg's if anything I did go down some. The sound with stock pipes is definitely louder, but not earth shattering. I am saving for some slip ons... but have not found anything cheap so that will be a next year project. I am leaning towards the SE Cannons. I cannot speak of the torque difference as it was not a concern of mine, I just want to ride. But it does seems "snappier" and still goes like a SOB when I get on it. The wife said it sounds better, and the heat is still there but not as bad as it was with the cat. I have the stock ac, and seems fine. As others have mentioned it was not worth getting anything different because of this new filter is much better than years past. I was told that doing a dyno tune with the PV was a waste, especially for my set up. I feel I am running fine and I get the pep I wanted. It runs well and all is good at this point.

Hope this helps a little, as I had the same questions when I started to feel this out. Talk with Fuel Moto, they will set you up!

One thing you fail to identify is your goal. You have to know what you want before you build a plan to realize that goal.

If you're chasing performance, you need a quality header ($$$, brands do matter), and hi-flow air cleaner with a good tune. If performance is a bonus but not the goal, spend a little less and buy a less expensive header.

You will remove heat without the cat. No question about that. You will gain increased volume and deeper tone without a cat. You will need a good tune, either a dyno tune from a good shop, or a good-quality tuner with "auto-tune" capabilities. V&H FP3 and DynoJet Power Vision are good choices.

If you want a noticeable "seat-of-your-pants" performance increase, you'll need good-quality components like V&H, Fuel Moto's offerings, Rinehart, etc., and you will need to do all of it.

My fuel economy was 45 MPG before my mods, and still @ 45 MPH after my mods, but with noticeable power improvement.

Thanks guys. Strych, performance is a bonus for me. I realize that if I want serious gains then Stage 2 is the choice, it's just expensive. I'd just like it to run as efficiently as possible with a little better/smoother performance.

I started out just wanting a deeper sound, which didn't require a tune, then thought about the header and the cooler running, which would require a tune, which in turn would improve the fuel/air mix which results in better running.

I'll call FM and other OEMs for input but hope others continue to chime in.

I have a 2016 RGS.I have a naked vo2 air cleaner and crusher mellow pipes.Fp3 tuner and I’m really happy with the way it runs.It runs very smooth.Im running the stock headpipe with cat.I think this gives me a deep tone and still perfect for long distance.If I had to choose another muffler it would be Fuel moto 4” tuned mufflers. I’m getting 45.3 mpg and there is power increase across the entire Power range. I don’t know if a different headpipe would net me anymore Power or not. I’m always told the last few pony’s are the most expensive.

Removed my cat on my stock 14 Road King. Sounds better deeper Rumble, also results in slightly richer fuel mixture, no tuner needed if removing the cat.

one...once you go catless, the dealer has nothing to tune your bike with.... no cat will give you better sound.... i have fuel moto jackpot header, SS MK 45 slips and PV tuner plus FMs breather.... $1550 out the door tune loaded...great improvement in sound...cooler running for passenger..... better performance...

I removed my cat from my stock RK, little more sound and less heat. Did it on the bike, just cut a rectangular hole removed cat and weld plate back in. Tip, use a stainless wire like 308 or 309 and disconnect battery.

Thanks. Sorry, but what does this mean?

Thanks. Who knows, maybe if I just remove cat on my headers it may deepen up my Street Cannons enough where I won't need the MK45s?

Ok here are two "TUNED" bikes one using Decat Headpipe the other has a V&H Power duel head pipe..

One cost about $100.00 the other about $350.00 Take your pick..

I was wondering the same thing. Wish he would explain that remark.

Like already stated, what is your end goal? Stage 1? Stage 2? Stage 5? There really isn't a cheap way to do any of these setups, so I say save your money and and do each stage one at a time, unless you have lots of money, then just go straight to stage 2. You're looking at between $2000-$2500 parts alone for stage 2, that being hi flow AC, new exhaust, set of cams, and a tuner, not to mention changing out anything else to complement what you are doing. I'm not a fan of removing the cat from stock pipes, and in doing any of these stages w/o the dealership doing the work voids your warranty if you care for that.

There are several reputable shops on the forum that can give you some advice and direction, might be a good idea to reach out to them. Fuel Moto comes to mind, for I'll probably be leaning toward their 107 big bore kit for my King this winter.

Based on what I've read and my experience...Stock air intake will flow all the air you need for Stage 1 or 2. I went with a PM Super Gasser because I liked the look. I had my stock head pipe decatted for $100, less heat more sound. Some warn of crosstalk from the sensors but doesn't seem to be an issue for me. My indy said little to be had by going aftermarket head pipe. Removing cat will lean the bike out further - get a tuner. I went FP3 and like it. Originally swapped stock slip ons for CVO take offs, switched to S&S MK45s ... I run without the baffle, seem to getter better torque down low with it, but like the sound better without. I don't pay attention to mpg.

My advice - decat stock head pipe, get a tuner ( got my FP3 for $300) and see how you like it. My cost $400 for decat and FP3, an aftermarket head pipe like Power Duals will cost you around that price and you will still need a tuner.

He saved me from spending, wasting, $$$ on a header.

Bought used 57's from him and recently installed FS 1.75" baffles over the crusher mellows per his recommendation. Glad I listened to him, again.

He also has a sheet comparing the exact same bike with a Rushmore a/c with a KN filter and a Kury Street Sleeper III a/c. Proving that the Rushmore KN a/c does not flow all that is needed.

it means,,,, Harley just has the Street Tuner.... its meant for a complete EPA compliant system.... a cat less header is none EPA...go all after market... checkout Fuel Moto its one stop shopping and they have the answers to all your questions...

when i was doing my install... i started it up with the factory header and no slip ons it sounded pretty good....so the cat doesnt kill your sound...but it does make the heat....

and yea,,, not too much difference between a de cated factory header and an after market " race" header... i went after market cause i wanted to keep my factory take off complete..in case i ever had to bring it back to stock

Got it, thanks. Still pondering; my bike just runs so well as is. I could use a little more torque here and there, but overall it's fine.

How do you like the MK45s? Heard them on a M8, sounded great, still considering them.

i like the MK45 i like the bigger look of the 4.5" they sound great... low and deep until u throttle up....not pitchy ... i recommend the tuning...catless will run cooler...not really enough HP gains to worry about but i did notice a couple lag spots in the stock tune.... those are now gone..

I removed the cats for heat. Made a very noticeable difference in that regard, too.

I used the Jackpot headers. As long as I'm decatting, I thought I'd go for better performance, regardless how small.

Decat the stock pipes yourself, just before you slipon new mufflers. Spade bit w/extension, 30 minutes and done. Then buy some CVO takeoffs for cheap, install a VIED to richen up the mixture, and you're set. It'll run better, sound better and be cooler on your leg.

I by-passed most of the read's, not to dis anyone at all but just wanted to point out some facts. Don't buy into the hype of an FP3, if your doing anything to the bike find an Dyno tuner thats a certified Power Vision tuner and buy a license for around $150 bucks and get it tuned properly. Ask around a bit and make sure customers are happy with that tuner before you jump in though. If you do up-grades to the bike you'd have to throw the FP3 away anyways to get a proper tune so the Power Vision is the way to go.
As far as pipes go, Yes there are some better than others, a 2-n-1 is the best but if I didn't go that route and wanted something other than the stock look then there's the V&H's power duals but with that set-up you will need to watch the baffle size, I wouldn't go over a 2.25" baffle unless your building a big engine, if you do then your leaving a lot of bottom end on the table.
If you satisfied with the stock look then I'd lose the cat, PV tune it with a good breather and the stock head pipe is a bit more restrictive than the V&H's so it will help with 2.5" baffles. Hope this helps you on the your decision.

I just noticed that your in Tn, give the guys at J&B Performance a call, look them up on FB and see some of there work. I guarantee you'll be satisfied with there work, I sure am!!!!

I switched my stock headers recently to ones that had Cat removed and ceramic coated, huge difference in heat.

The first modification I did was to buy a Rinehart Slimline Duals to get rid of Catalytic Converter.

That made the stock mufflers a little louder, I road that way for a year, and was pleased.

Then added a K&N replacement air filter to the stock air cleaner housing with a DK
breather bypass.
That created a deceleration pop, so I add Nightriders FL-ViED-10 to richen up the Air Fuel Ratio.

With the stock mufflers still on the Bike, my wife said she could not hear me when I came home.
So I bough some Jackpot 4 inch mufflers from a forum member, I put them on, now my wife can
hear when I come home. Everything seems to be working well, I'm still getting 42 MPG, but I don't
like the Exhaust note. So I may go back to the stock mufflers at some point in time, or keep looking
at other mufflers.

John