Hi,
I'm definitely going to add a Stage II cam to my 2018 Fat Bob later this year. I've read that lots of folks prefer S&S (and other brand) cams over SE. Is there really much of a difference? Please share your thoughts.

Thanks

 

 

Just a point of view, all SE products have to comply with EPA regs in order for HD to sell them.

 

As stated earlier, anything SE has to comply with EPA regs and probably wont make as much power per $ spent as aftermarket parts IMO. If you are only going stage II then you are basically looking at a drop in cam so your selection of cams will be somewhat limited because it has to work with the stock compression ratio. Most cam companies make one or two versions of drop ins, usually a torque cam and another with more mid or upper rpm power.
If you are doing cams get the bike tuned, a canned map will be ok but will leave power on the table. My suggestion is to find a reputable tuner, tell him how you ride and what you want to accomplish (torque or higher rpm) and then go with his recommendation on a cam.

 

Comparisons have been done, don't think the SE one is included though. Check out the link below.

Milwaukee 8 Cam Shootout

 

Thanks very much for your feedback!!

 

First thing first -- an aftermarket cam means a voided warranty. So you have to decide if 8% more power is worth you paying for all repairs for the remainder of your warranty period. For some, yes. For some, no. Only you can make that call.

An aftermarket cam requires an aftermarket tuner, and an aftermarket tuner voids the warranty. If your warranty is already expired or almost ready to expire, then this is generally a non-issue. But if you have the Harley extended warranty, it can be a big issue.

Aftermarket cams also seem to need an aftermarket pipe to perform to their potential. So what starts out as a simple cam swap can grow pretty rapidly; a $300 cam needs a $400 tuner and a $1,000 pipe and a $400 dyno session.

So the question comes down to: how much more does the aftermarket cam give, and is it worth it? There's an axiom in business and life, the Pareto Principle, also known as the 80/20 rule, which states: 80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts, and that final 20% of your results will take 80% of your efforts. The SE cam gives you easily 80% or more of what an aftermarket cam will give you. It's a drop-in cam, it keeps the bike EPA-compliant, it keeps the warranty, and it gives a big power boost. According to Harley, a Stage II 114 with slip-ons will deliver 100 hp and 120 ft/lbs of torque.

If you want every possible drop of performance, you'll probably need an aftermarket cam, aftermarket exhaust, aftermarket tuner, and aftermarket dyno tune. You'll pick up another 10 horsepower and 10 ft/lbs, to 110/130. If you're after peak numbers and peak performance, that might be worth it. But will you even feel the difference? The gain from stock to Harley Stage II is 25% (100 ft/lbs to 120). The gain from Harley Stage II to aftermarket Stage II is more like 8% (120 ft/lbs to 130).

If your warranty's over (or you don't care about it) you may as well go aftermarket; the cam costs the same and the install costs the same, so why not get the extra that it can deliver? If you've still got a year or two of warranty left and it's a consideration for you, the Harley cam does a good job, it's a big performance increase, and if something bad happens to the engine you're still covered.

Going further: here's the best comparison chart I've seen between the Harley cam and an aftermarket cam, the highly regarded TTS100. This test shows the exact same test bike (a 107 M8), same exhaust, same everything, so the only difference is the cam.


If I were to go for an aftermarket cam, I'd get the TTS100. It's a better, improved, full-power version of the SE447, same great torque curve, but more. It's stronger than the SE447 everywhere, at every RPM level. But you have to ask yourself: is 6 hp and 6 ft/lbs worth your warranty? Only you can decide that. I got the SE447 within the first 60 days so it's covered by my 2-year warranty. When the warranty's over, I've been thinking of getting the bike dyno tuned by Ed at The Dyno Difference, but I think I might just have my indy dealer swap out the cam for a TTS100 first. It'd only be $300 labor to swap the cam now that the pushrods are already done, and the warranty would already be over, so the only downside is the $600 cost, and that may be worth it to gain some more HP and TQ and only getting dyno'd once is probably worth it.

 

I spoke with my local dealer about it tonight. Straight shot is that using anything aftermarket voids your warranty - including pipes and air cleaner that are not HD products. However, they said they don't see how quality aftermarket pipes and air cleaner affect anything negatively, so the only thing they'd care to report is the cam or the tuner in case of a problem. Said another way, use HD products for the cam and tuner and at least that dealer would stand behind their product for the rest of the warranty period.

Must say I'd be a bit disappointed in the dynos posted by FatBob2018 above, especially with the HD torque cam. Not a ton of gain after $3000 investment.

 

$3000 for cams? You need to find another dealer! As for the warranty, all dealers are different. I have 4 dealers within 45 minutes of my home who all treat the warranty differently. One only uses HD parts and tuners, on the other extreme we have one who will build anything you want and still honor the warranty as long as they do your service work. The only way your warranty gets reported is if the dealer reports it or if the bike is plugged into the digital technician and gets flagged for an aftermarket tuner being married to your ECM. I am one of the oddballs who does all my own service work and wrenching. When I buy a new bike I usually run stock for the first 1,000 miles. With my last twin cam I pulled the heads for port work and installed cams after 2,000 miles. The M8 responds so well to cams and a good tune that I will probably never go past stage 2 (famous last words). I just bought a new 114 Fat Bob and will probably do stage 2 this winter, myself I am considering either the Woods 22x or the Cycle Rama 480...probably the CR-480, the bike is already stage one with a Power Vision. I installed the pipe, AC and PV myself and do my own tuning for stage 1, my dealer will not flag me for this as long as I let them do the 1K service. As stated earlier, every dealer is different. I have a good relationship with the dealer, bought a few bikes there and won their dyno shoot out twice with my old twin cam. If you are not able to do the work yourself check on a few different dealers or independent HD mechanics, I refuse to pay the outrageous labor cost that HD dealers charge.

 

My upgrade from stock to Stage II cost $1500, and it was a huge upgrade in performance. 25% more HP and 25% more torque for $1500, I'm happy with it.

The chart above shows how much more you'd get by going with an aftermarket cam instead. It's not comparing to a stock bike, it's comparing to an already-Stage II bike that's already been tuned with an aftermarket tuner, so the difference between them is just the camshaft. And yes, there's a little more there, but nowhere near as much of a difference as some would have you believe. In any case, I'm inclined to upgrade to that cam after my warranty's over, if I can get it installed for just $300 it's probably worth it to me.