My new FXDF!
#1
09-22-2014, 10:03 AM
My new FXDF!
Well, for those keeping track...my engine guy/tuner at my dealer worked yesterday(Sunday) so he could get my bike done. Dealer closes at 4 & they even stayed there until 4:30 so I could pick up my bike because I couldn't be there until then. Again...I have an awesome dealer!
Nothing but good things to say about Legacy HD in Effingham, IL
Ok, so now onto the important ****...the bike.
As I have said before, long story short...when I bought my Super Glide Custom in 2012 I really wanted a Fat Bob at the time, but ended up with my FXDC. It was a great bike...no complaints. I picked my new FXDF up about 4:30 yesterday, and got about 150 miles in before it got dark, lol
Comparing the FXDC to the FXDF is kinda hard to explain since they are both Dynas and have the same geometry. They are similar, but different due to a number of things..
Seat- I've rode pre-'14 Fat Bobs & didn't care for the stock seat but the '14/'15 stock seat is awesome IMO! It's comfortable & supportive....I will keep it. Honestly it is more comfortable than any of the 5 other seats I had for my FXDC. I did keep my Corbin Dual Tour which is an awesome seat, but will only put it on when the wife rides along since it will be way more comfortable for the passenger.
Bars- I love the drag bars! The pull back bars on my FXDC were super comfy, but the stock drags on the FXDF are even better and just right for me. For reference, I'm 6'1" and 215 and the bar/seat/forward control setup fits me perfect in stock form.
Brakes- The dual disks feel better....more responsive. 2 disks are definitely better than 1.
Tires- The wide tires with the specific tread in combination with the drag bars definitely give you a feeling of being planted and confident. I didn't get carried away with the new tires until I get them scrubbed off good in a couple hundred more miles, but I can tell you that it handles better than any HD I have rode. Handling is better than the FXDC.
So now onto the performance stuff...
I had the Wood tw-222 cams & D&D Fatcat in my FXDC, and went with the Wood tw 5-6 cams & D&D Bobcat on my new Fat Bob, so I'm going to try and describe how they are different in real world riding. I will also post my dyno sheet when I'm done.
Keep in mind my FXDC was a 96" and my FXDF is a 103", which makes a little difference, but in reality not much.
My 96" FXDC with the Wood tw-222 & Fatcat made 86/96
My 103" FXDF with the Wood tw 5-6 & Bobcat made 90/103.
I'm sitting here looking at both dyno sheets from both bikes and comparing them. Obviously the new bike made more, but I'm looking at the graphs and where they make their power and how linear the graphs are for comparisons.
The FXDC (96", 222 & fatcat), the cams came on at 2,050 rpms and spiked right up, but there was a slight dip in the tq curve, then it ramps up. It's fairly linear, but a dip and a hump. The hp curve ramps up pretty smooth, but got more aggressive once you got into the 3,000rpm range & up. In real world riding, you were always in the power band and it pulled hard from 2,000 on. It was a fun bike to ride...lots of tq.
The FXDF (103", 5-6 & bobcat) feels slightly different. Both the hp & tq curves are even more linear and smoother than the other bike. The cams come on 150 rpms later than the 222s, but they come on hard at 2,200, which is still low rpms where you want it.
Although both setups are similar, the 5-6 & Bobcat setup seems smoother and hits harder. TQ is amazing and it pulls like a semi. Although I don't hang around really low rpms, but some people do when cruising, I can tell though that the 5-6 doesn't have the grunt at 2,000-2,200 that the 222s do, but once they come on it's impressive and smoother. Kinda hard to explain. In summary, but the 222s are better off idle to about 2,200, then anything above that the 5-6 is better. Although it was heat cycled, broke in and tuned on the dyno, there's still breaking in to do so I didn't beat on it, but at 3,000 the 5-6 is pulling like a beast! It gets there easier and smoother. I can't wait to really open it up.
More on the pipes...I feel the D&D Fatcat & Bobcat are going to give you similar performance gains, but they are different pipes.
The Fatcat is longer, whereas the bobcat is a fairly short pipe compared to the Fatcat. I like the looks of the Bobcat better, but that's just my opinion. As far as quality....both are #1 & best out there IMO.
They sound way different....keep in mind my Fatcat had the Big Boar baffle in it, so that makes a difference.
The Fatcat has a deep rumble at idle and lower rpms and just progressively gets louder as rpms increase. It was easily controllable in town but you still knew it was there, but it really roared when you twisted the throttle. Cruising down the highway you could hear it, but not bothersome at all....just a nice deep rumble. In summary, deep rumble at all rpms, progressively gets louder with rpms.
The Bobcat is way different. It sounds great at idle, but is quieter at low rpms and cruising through town...sounds good but not real loud.
How-the-****-ever, when you twist the throttle it BARKS loud and means business! It's a good bark though, but not as deep as the Fatcat. So in summary....quieter at low rpms and cruising, but louder when you get on the throttle. It sounds more aggressive than the Fatcat when you twist the throttle, but cruising it's not as loud.
Both are great pipes, just different. For this bike, I made the right choice going with the bobcat. Looks wise it goes with the bike better, and I love the sound.
Honestly, I liked the Fatcat better on my FXDC, but like the Bobcat better on my FXDF....can't go wrong either way.
My impression of them are kinda like this....the Fatcat has a more traditional deep Harley rumble and more classic lines, and the bobcat looks more performance oriented and sounds that way too.
I hope this write up helps someone considering either one of these cams and pipes make a decision.
The 5-6s are going to make more than the 222s, but come on 150 rpms higher (which isn't much). Something to keep in mind too...the 222s are not a good choice if you think you might ever increase compression or do headwork, whereas the 5-6 works well with those upgrades.
My guy has built three stage 4 engines in the last month using the 5-6..
The 5-6 has more lift, longer durations, and some overlap.
I liked the 222s, but like the 5-6 better. Both give you ***** out TQ, the 5-6 is just more of it.
I would recommend the Wood 5-6 for sure.
Here are the cam specs for comparison:
TW-222
Intake open/close 14/34
Exhaust open/close 34/14
duration I/E 228/228
Lift .555
TW 5-6
Intake open/close 17/37
Exhaust open/close 39/15
duration I/E 234/234
Lift .575
Dyno sheet is too large of a file...I'll have
to mess with it later and see if I can't get it to post but right now it won't. In summary, it made 90.04 HP and 103.13 TQ
Both curves are impressive, smooth and linear.
Pic of new bike in sig pic..
Nothing but good things to say about Legacy HD in Effingham, IL
Ok, so now onto the important ****...the bike.
As I have said before, long story short...when I bought my Super Glide Custom in 2012 I really wanted a Fat Bob at the time, but ended up with my FXDC. It was a great bike...no complaints. I picked my new FXDF up about 4:30 yesterday, and got about 150 miles in before it got dark, lol
Comparing the FXDC to the FXDF is kinda hard to explain since they are both Dynas and have the same geometry. They are similar, but different due to a number of things..
Seat- I've rode pre-'14 Fat Bobs & didn't care for the stock seat but the '14/'15 stock seat is awesome IMO! It's comfortable & supportive....I will keep it. Honestly it is more comfortable than any of the 5 other seats I had for my FXDC. I did keep my Corbin Dual Tour which is an awesome seat, but will only put it on when the wife rides along since it will be way more comfortable for the passenger.
Bars- I love the drag bars! The pull back bars on my FXDC were super comfy, but the stock drags on the FXDF are even better and just right for me. For reference, I'm 6'1" and 215 and the bar/seat/forward control setup fits me perfect in stock form.
Brakes- The dual disks feel better....more responsive. 2 disks are definitely better than 1.
Tires- The wide tires with the specific tread in combination with the drag bars definitely give you a feeling of being planted and confident. I didn't get carried away with the new tires until I get them scrubbed off good in a couple hundred more miles, but I can tell you that it handles better than any HD I have rode. Handling is better than the FXDC.
So now onto the performance stuff...
I had the Wood tw-222 cams & D&D Fatcat in my FXDC, and went with the Wood tw 5-6 cams & D&D Bobcat on my new Fat Bob, so I'm going to try and describe how they are different in real world riding. I will also post my dyno sheet when I'm done.
Keep in mind my FXDC was a 96" and my FXDF is a 103", which makes a little difference, but in reality not much.
My 96" FXDC with the Wood tw-222 & Fatcat made 86/96
My 103" FXDF with the Wood tw 5-6 & Bobcat made 90/103.
I'm sitting here looking at both dyno sheets from both bikes and comparing them. Obviously the new bike made more, but I'm looking at the graphs and where they make their power and how linear the graphs are for comparisons.
The FXDC (96", 222 & fatcat), the cams came on at 2,050 rpms and spiked right up, but there was a slight dip in the tq curve, then it ramps up. It's fairly linear, but a dip and a hump. The hp curve ramps up pretty smooth, but got more aggressive once you got into the 3,000rpm range & up. In real world riding, you were always in the power band and it pulled hard from 2,000 on. It was a fun bike to ride...lots of tq.
The FXDF (103", 5-6 & bobcat) feels slightly different. Both the hp & tq curves are even more linear and smoother than the other bike. The cams come on 150 rpms later than the 222s, but they come on hard at 2,200, which is still low rpms where you want it.
Although both setups are similar, the 5-6 & Bobcat setup seems smoother and hits harder. TQ is amazing and it pulls like a semi. Although I don't hang around really low rpms, but some people do when cruising, I can tell though that the 5-6 doesn't have the grunt at 2,000-2,200 that the 222s do, but once they come on it's impressive and smoother. Kinda hard to explain. In summary, but the 222s are better off idle to about 2,200, then anything above that the 5-6 is better. Although it was heat cycled, broke in and tuned on the dyno, there's still breaking in to do so I didn't beat on it, but at 3,000 the 5-6 is pulling like a beast! It gets there easier and smoother. I can't wait to really open it up.
More on the pipes...I feel the D&D Fatcat & Bobcat are going to give you similar performance gains, but they are different pipes.
The Fatcat is longer, whereas the bobcat is a fairly short pipe compared to the Fatcat. I like the looks of the Bobcat better, but that's just my opinion. As far as quality....both are #1 & best out there IMO.
They sound way different....keep in mind my Fatcat had the Big Boar baffle in it, so that makes a difference.
The Fatcat has a deep rumble at idle and lower rpms and just progressively gets louder as rpms increase. It was easily controllable in town but you still knew it was there, but it really roared when you twisted the throttle. Cruising down the highway you could hear it, but not bothersome at all....just a nice deep rumble. In summary, deep rumble at all rpms, progressively gets louder with rpms.
The Bobcat is way different. It sounds great at idle, but is quieter at low rpms and cruising through town...sounds good but not real loud.
How-the-****-ever, when you twist the throttle it BARKS loud and means business! It's a good bark though, but not as deep as the Fatcat. So in summary....quieter at low rpms and cruising, but louder when you get on the throttle. It sounds more aggressive than the Fatcat when you twist the throttle, but cruising it's not as loud.
Both are great pipes, just different. For this bike, I made the right choice going with the bobcat. Looks wise it goes with the bike better, and I love the sound.
Honestly, I liked the Fatcat better on my FXDC, but like the Bobcat better on my FXDF....can't go wrong either way.
My impression of them are kinda like this....the Fatcat has a more traditional deep Harley rumble and more classic lines, and the bobcat looks more performance oriented and sounds that way too.
I hope this write up helps someone considering either one of these cams and pipes make a decision.
The 5-6s are going to make more than the 222s, but come on 150 rpms higher (which isn't much). Something to keep in mind too...the 222s are not a good choice if you think you might ever increase compression or do headwork, whereas the 5-6 works well with those upgrades.
My guy has built three stage 4 engines in the last month using the 5-6..
The 5-6 has more lift, longer durations, and some overlap.
I liked the 222s, but like the 5-6 better. Both give you ***** out TQ, the 5-6 is just more of it.
I would recommend the Wood 5-6 for sure.
Here are the cam specs for comparison:
TW-222
Intake open/close 14/34
Exhaust open/close 34/14
duration I/E 228/228
Lift .555
TW 5-6
Intake open/close 17/37
Exhaust open/close 39/15
duration I/E 234/234
Lift .575
Dyno sheet is too large of a file...I'll have
to mess with it later and see if I can't get it to post but right now it won't. In summary, it made 90.04 HP and 103.13 TQ
Both curves are impressive, smooth and linear.
Pic of new bike in sig pic..
Last edited by Sharkman73; 09-22-2014 at 10:31 AM.
#4
09-22-2014, 10:53 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#5
09-22-2014, 11:16 AM
If you're familiar with them at all...the Wood 5-6 is very similar to the Andrews 57H. 57H has very slightly longer durations, 5-6 has slightly more lift. Very similar characteristics on paper & in real world. From sheets I've seen, on paper the 57H will make slightly more hp, while the 5-6 will make slightly more tq. By slightly I'm talking 1-3 difference here. Both hit hard about 2,200 rpms and make good hp & tq all the way through. They are also both very flexible...work well with stock heads & compression, but also good fits for increased compression & head work.
Both of these cams will totally transform a bike. These are my favorite 2 cam choices for these reasons.
However, if you know you will never get into the motor farther than cams (ie..no headwork or compression increase), the tw-222s are a great cam...I was VERY please with them in my FXDC. Andrews 48H is a good grunt cam too, but doesn't run out as well in higher rpm as the 222.
#6
09-22-2014, 01:34 PM
Really nice informative write up, thanks! Really hoping to see the charts though, want to see the entire curve comparison between the 2 pipes/cams - when I posted my chart, I just took a pic with my IPad and had no problems...
Would not minimize the difference between 96" and 103" - that is a 7.3% gain that a lot of us pay big $$ to get. A 7.3% gain on your FXDC dyno numbers would put you at 92.7hp and 103.6 tq which is pretty close to what you got.
Really nice looking bike and great upgrades. Now I still have to decide on my pipes, still leaning towards the Fat Cats but the Bob Cats are awesome too!
Would not minimize the difference between 96" and 103" - that is a 7.3% gain that a lot of us pay big $$ to get. A 7.3% gain on your FXDC dyno numbers would put you at 92.7hp and 103.6 tq which is pretty close to what you got.
Really nice looking bike and great upgrades. Now I still have to decide on my pipes, still leaning towards the Fat Cats but the Bob Cats are awesome too!
#7
09-22-2014, 01:58 PM
ok, I took a pic with my phone of the two dyno sheets and was able to get them on here. I apologize for the poor quality...hopefully you can see them.
The first one is my FXDF (103", Wood TW 5-6 & bobcat)
Second one is FXDC (96", Wood TW-222 & Fatcat) for comparison purposes. As you can see, the TQ curve on my new bike with the 5-6 is smoother.
Peak #s aren't everything....for example my new bike is making 100TQ at 3,000, but the FXDC only made 84TQ at 3,000.
In a nutshell, the curves with the 5-6 & bobcat are better throughout. Both bikes were 5th gear runs SAE smoothing.
The first one is my FXDF (103", Wood TW 5-6 & bobcat)
Second one is FXDC (96", Wood TW-222 & Fatcat) for comparison purposes. As you can see, the TQ curve on my new bike with the 5-6 is smoother.
Peak #s aren't everything....for example my new bike is making 100TQ at 3,000, but the FXDC only made 84TQ at 3,000.
In a nutshell, the curves with the 5-6 & bobcat are better throughout. Both bikes were 5th gear runs SAE smoothing.
Last edited by Sharkman73; 09-22-2014 at 02:04 PM.
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#8
09-22-2014, 03:36 PM
Those charts work, thanks! Totally agree with you on the max #s comment, the area under all the curve is what counts. I was just worried that the Bob Cat being a somewhat shorter pipe might have a torque dip like my Bassani's and other short pipes like the V&H Competition ones. I don't see that at all - looks great! Enjoy!
#9
09-22-2014, 04:27 PM
#10
09-22-2014, 05:50 PM
