here's the email exchange...

I write:

"Hello *****,

I purchased my 07 FXDB from you folks just over a year ago. When I purchased
it, I opted for V&H slip ons and a stage 1 upgrade which obviously came with
a break in map. At around 1,000 miles (when I was supposed to bring it in
for its 1K service) tragedy struck a friend of mine on a bike ride one
Sunday afternoon and I virtually put the bike away for the rest of the
season.

I took this time off to begin some upgrades. I've made some fairly
significant changes to the bike over the winter, cosmetically. Moreover, I
wanted to tweak the performance a bit, and so I purchased a pair of
Headquarters 'Hurricane' cams and a set of easy install pushrods. I also
purchased a pair of Cobra Dragsters, as I wanted a seamless appearance for
the exhaust. Anyway, I'll be installing these things within the next 2
weeks. And as you can imagine, it's going to need to be tuned.

Is that something you folks can do for me?

Also, Kevin at Headquarters suggests making adjustments to the timing
tables. HQ has the tables posted on their website for tuning with a SERT. I
can print them out.

Anyway, hope to hear from you!"

And this is what I get back:

"Not a problem tuning the bike. When you bring it in please remember to bring
the SERT. The tuning will be $252.00. Our disclaimer is that we are not
responsible or liable for any failure of parts due to outside installation
when on dyno. Thanx."

I'm not quizzing you guys, but what's wrong with this picture? ...Here's the deal. I never bought a SERT. Am I wrong to suspect that if the dealer downloaded a break-in map for my bike that they should have given me a copy? I mean, he's telling me to "bring the SERT"... I don't understand that. I emailed him back asking him what he meant, and I've yet to hear back from him.

You guys' thoughts?




[IMG]local://upfiles/47002/06B97F4F09D74FD59DD266930AE1A1AB.jpg[/IMG]

 

well you probably have a stage 1 download... now with new pipes/A/c, and cams your going to need a tuner! be it PCIII or SERT. it is somthing you have to buy aftermarket.

when you do such mods you have to remap your fuel curv. and that is what the tuner does. the SERT and PCIII are pretty much the top dogs for now. Both of these products are dyno-able. which will give you best performance for your new mods. you can search this topic as it is discussed HEAVILY! hope this helps you out. any more questions and i'm sure someone here will be able to help!

 

Short answer is your need a SERT, or PCIII, or some other fuel management system to tune the bike. The EFI module has aprogram (map) flashed into it whichcontrols the fuel air mixture and is optimized for the stock set-up (and the EPA requirements). Harley has created Stage 1 and Stage2 mapsfor Harley specific add-ons. Once you go after market, the bike needs to have a custom map created. This requires a fuel management system.

I'm not instreted in getting into the "SERT vs. PCIII" debate, but I'd recommened you get a PCIII from fuel moto. If they don't already have a map for your set-up (you'll have to call them), I'd go to an Indy to get your bike tuned, vice the dealer who will try to threaten you with voiding your warrentee, you need to use this Harley part, not that after market part, etc.

Reading through the forums on fuel mamangement systems will help you make a good decision.

 

You say the stage I upgrade "obviously came with a break in map". Is this something your dealer told you, or are you assuming? As shimmon says, you probably got the stage I download which is not modifiable. If you want it custom tuned, you're going to have to buy something to do it with...Race Tuner or Power Commander or something. Dig out your receipts from when you bought the bike and see what the dealer did to it map wise. If they charged you for a Race Tuner, thenthey should have given youthe black box. Hence their comment"please remember to bring the SERT".
As far as them disclaiming any possible parts failure for stuff they didn't install, nothing wrong with that. The bike gets flogged pretty good while tuning and they can't guarantee someone else's work.

 

Indeed, murphdog... that's what the dealer told me...so i'm figuring it's simply the stage 1 download... and so then yes, i'll probably get the PC3 which is significantly cheaper than the SERT and timing tables can be adjusted with the PC3 as well...but i will check my paperwork and see if i was charged for a Race Tuner (which is why i was curious about the comment he made regarding bringing in the SERT...???)

And I understand the disclaimer... I would expect that

I'm curious to hear back from this service manager, though

 

The reason he is telling you to bring in the SERT, is that you stated in your e-mail, that HQ has tables posted for the SERT and that you can print them out. Even I read that as you have already bought the SERT. Doesn't mean you originally bought it with the bike, but you may have bought it when you parked the bike and started doing all the performance upgrades.

 

Well I suppose, BLade1127...That's a good point, butfrom what I've been told dealers do tune with SERTs without individuals having purchased them...I mean, I could be wrong, obviously... And in that case, I can see why the service manager would suggest bringing it.

 

Yeah, think ya might be wrong as each SERT module is "married" to a particular bike, so dealer would have to use a new SERT module on a bike where the owner didn't have one already. Think the VIN is permanently stored in the SERT's memory.

And just a point of clarification, SERT allows more settings to be tweaked than the PCIII. Check with whoever is going to do the dyno and get the tuner's advice as to which he prefers. Both work good, but you do get what you pay for. Me? I prefer not to have any non-HD device sitting downstream of the computer on my bike. Just sayin'.

 

Alright, cool... Now I understand... That's what these forums are for, man.

Thanks guys

And I agree with you, Chipstah... But damn, those SERTs are expensive... the latest one from Zs is almost 500.00 shipped. I suspect I might find an earlier one -"F" and later, I think- on ebay, sometime.

And when I talked to Kevin at HQ he actually suggested the SERT because timing tables for it are much more accurate than the PC3 or even any 'direct link' system like a Daytona Twin Tech or even a Tmax.

 

They can tune your bike without a sert by installing a download. this is not truely tuning it. if you want the bike tuned you are going to have to buy a sert or pcIII.