AFR and timing advance opinions
#11
08-05-2018, 09:27 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
If you cant see your own AFR then you are relying on all other things staying as they should.
That is a pretty big Russian roulette game to play, and, I would NOT.
Next lots of tunners will let you go to lean, once you hit the street all nuances are not accounted for.
Again It is your money.
If It was mine, I would want to see how it is spent and what it is doing.
Next, not all dyno shops are stocked with people that actually know what they are doing.
How so you ask?
I had a kid argue with me about the benefits of twinn plugging my engine!
I did not pursue the stupidity too much, I just asked a few more questions and realized he knew a lot less about engine and tunes then I do.
I dismissed my self and moved on.
This is not hard to imagine .Look at all the HD shops with a dyno!
How many of these guys actually have done a high-performance engine with their hands?
They know what HD demands on the new bikes, now, does that transcribe to modded engine that is brought to them?
Hell NO<!
These "kids" dont own a dyno, maybe never see a real set of ported heads, or could even CC a combustion chamber.
But they sat through a class somewhere on running a dyno.
There is crisis right there a freekin in emergency!
Dont presume too much.
That is a pretty big Russian roulette game to play, and, I would NOT.
Next lots of tunners will let you go to lean, once you hit the street all nuances are not accounted for.
Again It is your money.
If It was mine, I would want to see how it is spent and what it is doing.
Next, not all dyno shops are stocked with people that actually know what they are doing.
How so you ask?
I had a kid argue with me about the benefits of twinn plugging my engine!
I did not pursue the stupidity too much, I just asked a few more questions and realized he knew a lot less about engine and tunes then I do.
I dismissed my self and moved on.
This is not hard to imagine .Look at all the HD shops with a dyno!
How many of these guys actually have done a high-performance engine with their hands?
They know what HD demands on the new bikes, now, does that transcribe to modded engine that is brought to them?
Hell NO<!
These "kids" dont own a dyno, maybe never see a real set of ported heads, or could even CC a combustion chamber.
But they sat through a class somewhere on running a dyno.
There is crisis right there a freekin in emergency!
Dont presume too much.
Last edited by Max Headflow; 08-05-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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Kingglide549 (08-05-2018)
#12
08-05-2018, 10:20 AM
Banned
So
No one said they are all worthless. Like you said there are good and bad, in every trade even.
You are one of the greats if you go out for a test ride. too!
Being there are a limited number of dyno shops in my area or probably any area-one has to choose carefully, ask the right questions.
I think I need a dyno....
The dyno guy, we are trusting with our engines, and he should know at least as much as I know.
BUT
How can he?
the kid is 22 years old. Ok old enough.
But he has zero for experience with a moded engine other than the drill he was taught and goes through.
No, I am not saying they are all bad, of course not!
Like I said, my last conversation went something like this " I have dual plugs to help with flame fronts and cheap low octane gas. (91) 10.5 uncorrected
I ride two up and hvy. b4 i could get done explaining he said OH! your one of those green emissions guys ..
He said good for me it makes no difference!
I was quite shocked! He was not going to ask about cams etc.
No, not ALL DYNO OPERATORS ARE THE SAME.
I should go on to tell you what he did not know about corrected ....
So choose wisely!
As a shop owner, a tech, an engine builder, a tuner and a former dealer tech, I presume nothing! That is why I own a dyno, have been trained how to use it, and still accept the fact thatI DONT know everthing and there is always more to learn/apply.
While i actually do not disagree with kost of your last post, there are diamonds in the rough everywhere. When i worked at the dealer they tried to get me to train those 'kids'. But i also got to meet and be trained by 2 guys that were a couple of the best teachers that I ever had, so not ALL dealer techs are worthless.
one of the main points that i was trying to get across was that ifan injected bike is correctly and properly tuned, the afr guage while nice, just becomes clutter becuase there are other symptoms that will show up tio let the avareage rider know something is up. The tune does not change unless a component fails. It is just IMPERATIVE that it was a well built tune to start with.
If you have a power vision unit, mount it up on your bars, set up guages and watch yor front and rear afrs while riding down the road. I use a wide band pro kit, so after i am done on the dyno, i take the bike out on the road and watch t/p, map, et and fornt and rear afr, all on one screen andmsee if there are any issues. On another screen i watch timing advance and knock events just to confirm that while on the road, the will not have isssue.
marco
While i actually do not disagree with kost of your last post, there are diamonds in the rough everywhere. When i worked at the dealer they tried to get me to train those 'kids'. But i also got to meet and be trained by 2 guys that were a couple of the best teachers that I ever had, so not ALL dealer techs are worthless.
one of the main points that i was trying to get across was that ifan injected bike is correctly and properly tuned, the afr guage while nice, just becomes clutter becuase there are other symptoms that will show up tio let the avareage rider know something is up. The tune does not change unless a component fails. It is just IMPERATIVE that it was a well built tune to start with.
If you have a power vision unit, mount it up on your bars, set up guages and watch yor front and rear afrs while riding down the road. I use a wide band pro kit, so after i am done on the dyno, i take the bike out on the road and watch t/p, map, et and fornt and rear afr, all on one screen andmsee if there are any issues. On another screen i watch timing advance and knock events just to confirm that while on the road, the will not have isssue.
marco
You are one of the greats if you go out for a test ride. too!
Being there are a limited number of dyno shops in my area or probably any area-one has to choose carefully, ask the right questions.
I think I need a dyno....
The dyno guy, we are trusting with our engines, and he should know at least as much as I know.
BUT
How can he?
the kid is 22 years old. Ok old enough.
But he has zero for experience with a moded engine other than the drill he was taught and goes through.
No, I am not saying they are all bad, of course not!
Like I said, my last conversation went something like this " I have dual plugs to help with flame fronts and cheap low octane gas. (91) 10.5 uncorrected
I ride two up and hvy. b4 i could get done explaining he said OH! your one of those green emissions guys ..
He said good for me it makes no difference!
I was quite shocked! He was not going to ask about cams etc.
No, not ALL DYNO OPERATORS ARE THE SAME.
I should go on to tell you what he did not know about corrected ....
So choose wisely!
#13
08-06-2018, 07:37 PM
Road Master
#14
08-12-2018, 08:34 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
You can basically only see rich, or lean in the narrow band of the sensors ability to read. It’s only accurate at 14.7. It’s measured in lambda. Been a while since I messed with them, but that is what I recall. So if your tune is commanding any richer fuel mixture while in closed loop, the reading will not be accurate.
#15
08-18-2018, 04:39 AM
Banned
I
In the airplane I do.
Not on the HD as there is not a dang thing I can do about it, -no lean or rich lever.
My bike runs plenty of fat or at least looks that way to a novice not knowing about Egas.
The heads go 20K between valve jobs and other head work as i am always changing something.
Most people would benefit more from knowing the AFR, as that is that catalyst for head temps.
There is not a lot of places to go WOT for a minute (full power) on a HD like a plane
Not on the HD as there is not a dang thing I can do about it, -no lean or rich lever.
My bike runs plenty of fat or at least looks that way to a novice not knowing about Egas.
The heads go 20K between valve jobs and other head work as i am always changing something.
Most people would benefit more from knowing the AFR, as that is that catalyst for head temps.
There is not a lot of places to go WOT for a minute (full power) on a HD like a plane
#16
08-18-2018, 09:40 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
I
In the airplane I do.
Not on the HD as there is not a dang thing I can do about it, -no lean or rich lever.
My bike runs plenty of fat or at least looks that way to a novice not knowing about Egas.
The heads go 20K between valve jobs and other head work as i am always changing something.
Most people would benefit more from knowing the AFR, as that is that catalyst for head temps.
There is not a lot of places to go WOT for a minute (full power) on a HD like a plane
In the airplane I do.
Not on the HD as there is not a dang thing I can do about it, -no lean or rich lever.
My bike runs plenty of fat or at least looks that way to a novice not knowing about Egas.
The heads go 20K between valve jobs and other head work as i am always changing something.
Most people would benefit more from knowing the AFR, as that is that catalyst for head temps.
There is not a lot of places to go WOT for a minute (full power) on a HD like a plane
Doesn't your carb have an enrichener?
You running E85?
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