I had planned on tackling it myself - I have a manual & a buddy who has the cam bearing install tool. I'm still on the fence about the tensioner, but the consensus from the 3 shops I've talked to does seem to be to replace the hydraulic & shoe with one from S & S or Fueling.

The last shop I talked to actually recommended the Kury 24D cam and after some additional reading on some of the other cam threads, the CR 575's seem to have some fans, and maybe I'd consider the S & S MR103 as well, but can't seem to find any solid numbers on that one. All of the other shops besides Fuel Moto aren't really fans of the Woods cams, they're saying the top end takes more of a beating with those.

Can you elaborate on the CCP envelope for the CR 570-2? Most of what I've read about those is that they work well as a bolt in - is it because they just don't have much grunt until headwork is done in comparison to the CR575's?

 

Well, your call on the tensioners but why not while you are in the cam chest; not expensive and easy to install.

Stay away from the Kury 24D cam. Those cams were designed to work with Kury heads and there was only one porter that I am aware of that could port OEM heads and get them to perform and he has since passed . Woods cam perform, no doubt and all are not noisy but Mr. Woods likes fast ramps which tend to make noise; again, your call.

I misspoke on the CCP issue that might go along with the 570-2. I thought the Rushmore 103 static compression was higher but it HD advertises compression at 9.6 so the 570-2 would work fine and actually would like a bit more compression; my bad. Another cam to consider would be the Andrews 48. I have no experience with the S&S MR103 but looking at the profile, it looks like it would perform well also.

JMHO

 

 

FYI, you can get a pair of Cyco cam chain tensioner shoes for under $20 on ebay.

 

Disregard whatever your buddy may tell you about the Kury cams. They have a very different profile from S&S, Andrews, Woods, etc. and nobody runs them anymore. Stick with what is working today. It's really not that hard selecting a cam. IMHO, the first thing to look at is intake valve close event and how it affects CCP. Target a CCP of about 190psi and any cam that has an intake close that will get close to 190psi is going to look a lot like any other cam with a similar intake close event; the Kury cams being the exception to the rule. That's a very general statement as there are other factors like lift, LSA, and overlap the will vary from on profile to the next but the variance, in most cases, is marginal. Exhaust is another factor since some exhaust systems perform better with some cams than others. Take a look at dyno sheets of motors configured similar to yours, not vendor dyno sheets but sheets like those posted on this and other forums; might help you narrow things down a bit.

You could use the OEM pushrod covers with the Quickee pushrods but it is not adviseable; makes adjusting a real PITA IMHO.

Good advice from LQQK-OUT on the Cyco tensioner shoes; all you need is the shoe. Just be sure to reassemble the shoe with the plunger in the housing first, spring next and shoe next; many get it backwards.
http://twincamtensioner.com/shop/

 

Do you wanna spend $ riding/maintaining, (new lifters and inner cam bearings- inspect pump, shoes, and runout while you're there. Put another 50K on it and be as happy with the performance as you have been)?
Or
Modifying (Adding the cost of new cam, adjustables, and tune to the current list of lifters/bearings/gaskets) and enjoy a different level of performance?

 

Therein is the conundrum - if I'm going to go any further - i.e. pull the cam plate to inspect the inner shoe or replace inner cam bearings, lifters, etc - I'm going to go ahead and put cams in anyway as it would be pointless to just throw stock back in since the cams are only a portion of the expense and I'd gain performance. I'm just really debating whether my bike is ready to implode 10 miles into this season if I just button it up as-is, in the same token not trying not to get too caught up in internet hysteria about stock HD component failure rates. If anything, I figured this is a good opportunity to ask about cams as I did plan on doing them at some point anyway, just hadn't planned on it now.

DJ,
Yeah, I've been doing my best to decipher the cams sticky in this section, and it certainly has given me some knowledge pertaining to some of the cams I've been eyeballing, and now have eliminated based on the info in the sticky, but I guess I will have to try and find more dyno charts to see how those numbers translate into performance. I still have CR-570-2's as the front runner, with TW-222's or TW-555's as close 2nd/3rd. Only one shop recommended the Kury cam, so thought I'd throw it out there, but I'll probably disregard that one, and I think the S&S MR-103 is out - seems to be real soft at the bottom and doesn't carry that far from the charts I've seen. Andrews 48 or 57h could still be in the mix too. Have been trying to use the intake opening as the main data point to establish which cams should be considered, keeping LSA and duration in mind as well. As it states in the sticky; it's a trade-off, high low-end torque for high rpm falloff or vice-versa, but some cams seem to have good low end with a fairly flat top-torque curve that carry further at the expense of a maximum torque number.

 

I owe SA66 an apology as I thought I was responding to the OP with my posts and just realized that we have hijacked his thread; SA66, apologies for that.

It's really not a conundrum. Pretty plain as rigidthumper has laid it out; you must have a preference for one or the other; you just need to choose between the two. If you are going to open the cam chest to check tensioners, pump, run out, etc. you have done 75% of the work; pretty straight forward all lMHO assuming funds are not an issue.

Dyno charts tell part of the story but you need to be sure you are looking at all the data, i.e., heads ported? (If heads were ported they were most likely decked as well) what exhaust? what T/B? tuner? etc. Dyno charts do not tell the viewer the CCP. The same build with a CCP of 185psi is going to present a different profile with a CCP of 200psi. Do no be afraid of compression. I think you meant intake close, not intake open as a criteria?? Your comment about the S&S M103 cam being soft on the bottom could be the result of just not providing enough compression to wake that cam up off idle; dunno.

What I like about the Cyclerama cams is that you don't see the typical difference between TQ and HP with Wes Brown's cams. With a good tune and the right exhaust, numbers will look like 115/115 and not 115/105.

 

I have said this before but I will repeat it for some of you that may not of heard it before. I have to say what does a cam card tell you? If we break it down it tells you very little as to how the cam will really perform. Let's take a look at what you get on a TC cam card. It tells you when the cam lobe is @ 0.053" lift and when the cam is @ 0.053' lift on the closing side of the lobe. Neither of those points is valve opening or closing points! Then it goes on to tell you what your expected valve lift maybe based upon some rocker ratio. Problem, there is not any of the cam cards that I've seen tell you that the ratio being used may well not be what the TC engine has in it. Various suppliers use various different ratio values too. So its tough to use those values in anything but a general guess. If you put a solid lifter in a TC engine (just for checking) and adjust to zero lash then check real valve lift you will find it different from just about every cam versus what it says on the card. In speaking with the company's that make the cam grinding equipment they will tell you there is a normal tolerance for the grinding machines that runs about 3 degree's, so that means when the cams are being made it's common to see 3 degree's variation in measurement during a product run! Then let's look at just the crankshaft gear fitment in the TC. I have measure as much as 8 degree rattle in that gear alone! Typically there is about 4 degree in them. So for those of you that think the cam card is going to say this the one you need based on whats printed on them I am sorry but it isn't going to happen.

Let's give you all a simple thing to draw on a piece of paper for yourselves. Take a tablet and pencil and draw one horizontal line across the page, then another line 1/4" above the first line followed by a third line 1/2" above the first line. So you now have three lines across the page. Now right in the center of the third (top) line place a dot on it, then drop down to the second line and place a dot on it 1" to the left and another 1" to the right of the first dot on the third line, both on the second line. You now have what the cam card tells you for one lobe. The first or lowest line on your drawing is the zero line or you may refer to it as the base circle. There is nothing else on the cam card that defines anything else about that lobe! So now you have to draw a continues line from the 1st line that touches all three dots and returns to the 1st line. See how many various lines you can draw........................... hundreds if not thousands! Each and every line you draw as long as you hit those three points would have the exact same specifications on a cam card! Now some of those lines cannot be made but you get the idea here. Some will work much better than other yet they ALL get the exact same specifications.

There are things that will get you better performance but will also wear parts out faster, things that will make them quieter and yet others to hurt performance to some degree. So thinking a Camcard specification is a measurement of how a cam will perform in a given engine could not be further from the truth. You have to first know much more about the cam than the card will ever tell you and then you must install it and know where it is timed in the engine. In the HD world just bolting a camshaft in with never measuring anything is the normal way things are done. Very few spend the time to degree a camshaft in, let alone degree the front and rear cams in the engine and adjust them as needed. I am not talking about lining up the dots either. For a bolt in HD TC camshaft you will be better served to be honest with yourself and define what range do you really run the engine in 90 + % of the time you ride the bike, then pick components that work best in that RPM range. I see way to many people chasing numbers they will never use as they are not out racing the bikes. Some are and for them a different selection of parts would be better, than a person that rides there bike in town and out for a cruise. In the HD world I see 95% of the rides run there engine from idle to around 3500- 4000 RPM then shift. So a cam that makes big HP at 5800 RPM is going to do you little good. What would do you much better (if that's how you ride) is a camshaft designed to give you low RPM Torque from idle to 4000 RPM. The 110 + HP at 5800 isn't worth a damn thing to most bagger riders other than telling you buddies at the bar! Now a bike that makes 95 + Ft lbs @ 2000 RPM and climbing, will put a huge **** eating grin on there face once they get on it and ride it. It will not have the bigger HP bragging rights at the bar but you have to ask yourself what you really want.

 

A lot of good information to digest in Steve's post

IMO the numbers on the cam specs give you a rough guideline as to what to expect, generally earlier intake close means earlier torque, but just because a cam has 2* earlier intake close doesn't necessarily mean it will start producing torque earlier. I prefer to look at dyno charts when looking at cams, but the supporting parts (exhaust, intake, compression, headwork) need to be paid attention to closely, All the parts must play well together.

Shadowbennie, in your case the CR570-2 would be my choice for a cam only upgrade based on the consistent results I've seen posted on line. Semms to be a good fit for the Rushmore bikes. IMO the Andrews 48 and the TTS100 would be good to look at.

There are a lot of dyno charts with the 570-2 here https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...epa=SEARCH_BOX, pick up the phone and give him a call he is a wealth of information and great to talk to