Engine Mechanical Topics Discussion for motor builds, cams, head work, stripped bolts and other engine related issues. The good and the bad. If it goes round and around or up and down, post it here.

Am I getting ripped off?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 07-15-2019, 12:32 AM
John Christian Fraser's Avatar
John Christian Fraser
John Christian Fraser is offline
1st Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Am I getting ripped off?

Here’s the deal: I spent a whole whack of cash last summer getting my 89” stroker Evo rebuilt. Crank trued and balanced. Bored over .020”, new S&S pistons, new Hi-4N, new oil pump and a few other odds and ends. Done by a reputable v-twin shop in my area that a lot of people recommend. Ran great for the break-in period, which I babied it for. Changed the oil after 800km and then carried on. About a month ago it started running hot and the idle suddenly dropped and became lumpy. I checked all the simple stuff like timing and carb tweaks but I couldn’t get it to run right. Noticeable loss of power.
So I take it back to the shop and they are telling me that there are vertical lines on the cylinder walls and my pistons look damaged. They’re claiming this is due to getting on the bike cold and ramming the throttle without it being warmed up properly. I know in my heart of hearts that I have never just got on the damn thing and just started blasting away. Sometimes it’s only been a few minutes before I start riding, but I certainly don’t hit anything over half throttle before it’s at operating temp.

I guess my question is; assuming that I’m telling the truth, what is the likely cause of scored cylinder walls on a fresh rebuild? Also, how the would the piston be damaged? They haven’t blown apart the motor, they’re just looking through the plug hole so they can only see the top of it. I’m going to call them back tomorrow, I just want as much info going into the conversation as I can.

Cheers folks!
 
  #2  
Old 07-15-2019, 01:13 AM
dfwhockey17's Avatar
dfwhockey17
dfwhockey17 is offline
Outstanding HDF Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,400
Received 283 Likes on 250 Posts
Default

Have them do a compression test and a leak down test before pulling anything apart...
 
  #3  
Old 07-15-2019, 02:37 AM
Phil13's Avatar
Phil13
Phil13 is offline
Road Master
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: England
Posts: 1,149
Received 1,629 Likes on 578 Posts
Default

Possible your bike had a partial seizure at the time it started running hot. That would account for the loss of power and the damage to bore and pistons. Cause? Don't know without looking, but seizing is usually down to lubrication failure. As said a compression test will confirm ring / bore damage and go from there.
 
  #4  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:27 AM
Hillsidecycle.com's Avatar
Hillsidecycle.com
Hillsidecycle.com is offline
Sponsor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,085
Received 816 Likes on 581 Posts
Default

Perhaps they mis-diagnosed the reason, particularly if the engine has yet to be pulled apart?
Only a thought.
Scott
 
__________________
HILLSIDE MOTORCYCLE & MACHINE, INC.
HARLEY-DAVIDSON SPEED & SERVICE CENTER
5225 SOUTH MAIN ST., MUNNSVILLE, N.Y. 13409
Sales/Support 315-495-6650
www.hillsidecycle.com
Walk-in Retail Showroom
Complete H-D Machine Shop
Case & cylinder boring
Complete Cylinder Head Shop
High-Performance Engine Kits
Crank Rebuilding
Direct Link & PowerVision Tuning
Goodson HD Tooling Manufacturer
Maxton Mile World Record
4500 sq ft. facility

OVER 35 YEARS OF H-D ENGINE BUILDING.
See us on Facebook.
  #5  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:53 AM
John Christian Fraser's Avatar
John Christian Fraser
John Christian Fraser is offline
1st Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Phil13
Possible your bike had a partial seizure at the time it started running hot. That would account for the loss of power and the damage to bore and pistons. Cause? Don't know without looking, but seizing is usually down to lubrication failure. As said a compression test will confirm ring / bore damage and go from there.
A bad compression test could also be the result of valves not seating in the head, right? How can you tell the difference between piston/cylinder issues and head issues? The bike doesn’t seem to blow smoke at all (blue or black) and it doesn’t use oil from what I can tell.
 
  #6  
Old 07-15-2019, 12:21 PM
pgrchaplain's Avatar
pgrchaplain
pgrchaplain is offline
Road Captain
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: N/E Indiana
Posts: 663
Received 523 Likes on 246 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by John Christian Fraser
A bad compression test could also be the result of valves not seating in the head, right? How can you tell the difference between piston/cylinder issues and head issues? The bike doesn’t seem to blow smoke at all (blue or black) and it doesn’t use oil from what I can tell.
Do a Leak-Down Test, that will reveal the problem.
 
  #7  
Old 07-15-2019, 12:23 PM
John Christian Fraser's Avatar
John Christian Fraser
John Christian Fraser is offline
1st Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pgrchaplain
Do a Leak-Down Test, that will reveal the problem.
Can you elaborate on that? I have a compression tester.
 
  #8  
Old 07-15-2019, 12:44 PM
Hillsidecycle.com's Avatar
Hillsidecycle.com
Hillsidecycle.com is offline
Sponsor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,085
Received 816 Likes on 581 Posts
Default

My quickest explanation would be to goggle search "engine leak-down test'...........as long as AOC is not involved...
Scott
 
The following users liked this post:
nsdhoward45 (07-17-2019)
  #9  
Old 07-16-2019, 06:45 AM
Phil13's Avatar
Phil13
Phil13 is offline
Road Master
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: England
Posts: 1,149
Received 1,629 Likes on 578 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by John Christian Fraser
A bad compression test could also be the result of valves not seating in the head, right?
Yes, it could be but, the chances of valves suddenly not seating (unless you over revved and bent a valve stem or two are slim I would say. For me personally I would be looking to do a visual inspection (strip) of the top end to ascertain exactly what has gone **** up.
 
  #10  
Old 07-16-2019, 08:45 AM
djl's Avatar
djl
djl is offline
HDF Community Team

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: san antonio
Posts: 12,018
Received 2,031 Likes on 1,499 Posts
Default

As has been said, the OP should arm himself with accurate compression and leak down test results before returning to the builder. A failure like this might be the result of poor piston to cylinder fitment resulting from a poor bore/hone job or cylinder bores that are not true. The OP should have bores checked with bore gauge and piston to cylinder fitment checked with bore gauge and cylinders in torque plates, probably by someone other than the builder.
 


Quick Reply: Am I getting ripped off?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 PM.