Fuel cap lid, Vapor Lock, and VOES
#21
09-20-2018, 04:21 PM
No I'm not considering you a smart ***. I always ask if I don't understand... In school most kids in my class hated me cause I always had my hand up... Anyways you have a very logical question, so...
Yes on the first part.. if you get your carb dialed in properly. But you need to remember that timing does make a difference in AFR's . I believe that 1* of timing can make a .2 difference in AFR treading. Bagger and I covered this in a thread a while back.. I might be off with my ratio cause my memory isn't the greatest..
Example: a stock timing curve is running 25* advance at 2800 RPM so if you tipping in the throttle at that 2800 RPM the voes will ground advancing the timing 10* . So if your running say 13.8 AFR at 2800 and then the voes grounds advancing to 35* that 10* of timing advance will actually raise your AFR 2 full points 15.8 and yes that would cause detonation on a high compression motor... That's why I don't bother to use it... How much better mileage are you really going to get. 1-3 mpg? Maybe... Can't really confirm that but you can try a tank of fuel with the voes and a tank of fuel without the voes to confirm for your style of riding..
Part 2: no it's not going to make a difference in power because as soon as you throttle up and vacuum decreases it will break the ground to the voes and revert to the normal timing curve.. remember this as well. The more advance you run the hotter the motor will run. And just so you know I don't believe for tip in cruising you will get the same mileage.. it will drop. How much depends on the way you ride..
Like I said earlier I don't recommend a voes on a built hi compression motor.. Back in the day I was running Accell distributors on my SBC because the stock distributor that had vacuum advance, that was identical to the voes was not good for detonation even then with 98 octane fuel..
Yes on the first part.. if you get your carb dialed in properly. But you need to remember that timing does make a difference in AFR's . I believe that 1* of timing can make a .2 difference in AFR treading. Bagger and I covered this in a thread a while back.. I might be off with my ratio cause my memory isn't the greatest..
Example: a stock timing curve is running 25* advance at 2800 RPM so if you tipping in the throttle at that 2800 RPM the voes will ground advancing the timing 10* . So if your running say 13.8 AFR at 2800 and then the voes grounds advancing to 35* that 10* of timing advance will actually raise your AFR 2 full points 15.8 and yes that would cause detonation on a high compression motor... That's why I don't bother to use it... How much better mileage are you really going to get. 1-3 mpg? Maybe... Can't really confirm that but you can try a tank of fuel with the voes and a tank of fuel without the voes to confirm for your style of riding..
Part 2: no it's not going to make a difference in power because as soon as you throttle up and vacuum decreases it will break the ground to the voes and revert to the normal timing curve.. remember this as well. The more advance you run the hotter the motor will run. And just so you know I don't believe for tip in cruising you will get the same mileage.. it will drop. How much depends on the way you ride..
Like I said earlier I don't recommend a voes on a built hi compression motor.. Back in the day I was running Accell distributors on my SBC because the stock distributor that had vacuum advance, that was identical to the voes was not good for detonation even then with 98 octane fuel..
Last edited by Yankee Dog; 09-20-2018 at 04:26 PM.
#22
09-20-2018, 06:17 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#23
09-22-2018, 03:02 PM
No I'm not considering you a smart ***. I always ask if I don't understand... In school most kids in my class hated me cause I always had my hand up... Anyways you have a very logical question, so...
Yes on the first part.. if you get your carb dialed in properly. But you need to remember that timing does make a difference in AFR's . I believe that 1* of timing can make a .2 difference in AFR treading. Bagger and I covered this in a thread a while back.. I might be off with my ratio cause my memory isn't the greatest..
Example: a stock timing curve is running 25* advance at 2800 RPM so if you tipping in the throttle at that 2800 RPM the voes will ground advancing the timing 10* . So if your running say 13.8 AFR at 2800 and then the voes grounds advancing to 35* that 10* of timing advance will actually raise your AFR 2 full points 15.8 and yes that would cause detonation on a high compression motor... That's why I don't bother to use it... How much better mileage are you really going to get. 1-3 mpg? Maybe... Can't really confirm that but you can try a tank of fuel with the voes and a tank of fuel without the voes to confirm for your style of riding..
Part 2: no it's not going to make a difference in power because as soon as you throttle up and vacuum decreases it will break the ground to the voes and revert to the normal timing curve.. remember this as well. The more advance you run the hotter the motor will run. And just so you know I don't believe for tip in cruising you will get the same mileage.. it will drop. How much depends on the way you ride..
Like I said earlier I don't recommend a voes on a built hi compression motor.. Back in the day I was running Accell distributors on my SBC because the stock distributor that had vacuum advance, that was identical to the voes was not good for detonation even then with 98 octane fuel..
Yes on the first part.. if you get your carb dialed in properly. But you need to remember that timing does make a difference in AFR's . I believe that 1* of timing can make a .2 difference in AFR treading. Bagger and I covered this in a thread a while back.. I might be off with my ratio cause my memory isn't the greatest..
Example: a stock timing curve is running 25* advance at 2800 RPM so if you tipping in the throttle at that 2800 RPM the voes will ground advancing the timing 10* . So if your running say 13.8 AFR at 2800 and then the voes grounds advancing to 35* that 10* of timing advance will actually raise your AFR 2 full points 15.8 and yes that would cause detonation on a high compression motor... That's why I don't bother to use it... How much better mileage are you really going to get. 1-3 mpg? Maybe... Can't really confirm that but you can try a tank of fuel with the voes and a tank of fuel without the voes to confirm for your style of riding..
Part 2: no it's not going to make a difference in power because as soon as you throttle up and vacuum decreases it will break the ground to the voes and revert to the normal timing curve.. remember this as well. The more advance you run the hotter the motor will run. And just so you know I don't believe for tip in cruising you will get the same mileage.. it will drop. How much depends on the way you ride..
Like I said earlier I don't recommend a voes on a built hi compression motor.. Back in the day I was running Accell distributors on my SBC because the stock distributor that had vacuum advance, that was identical to the voes was not good for detonation even then with 98 octane fuel..
thank you you for that great description! I don’t believe the motor is “built” but I will find out here soon. Replacing cylinder and rocker gaskets as they were leaking a bit. So figure while I’m in there I can see what’s up. Also, thinking part of the problem was shitty *** running of lines by last shop I took her to. Pinched and bent wires everywhere.
with regards to the vent for the tank - the nipple that should be the vent is welded shut (looks factory as it’s painted the same as the bike), and the cap is welded shut as well.
Someone on here err told me that if the petcock is running into a container, there should be 8oz every 5 seconds. In 15 seconds I got exactly half a beer can. So I am guessing that’s an issue. But it takes a few days for a new filter/petcock to get in, so I’m waiting for that. Figured I may as well replace it since I have to pull it anyway.
New OEM petcock filter: $20
New petcock/filter: $21
So that’s next. Gaskets, rebuild fuel pump, and clean tank are also on the list.
#24
09-23-2018, 06:44 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#26
10-11-2018, 09:48 PM
Quick Throttle shared my story as well
They got my picture from someplace that I posted on fb and instagram, and it was super popular. So I wrote them a story and it was pretty popular as well. Insurance refuses to sell the bike back due to fire.
Here is the dying story:
Yep, thatʼs my bike.
Many of you probably saw the post on Quick Throttle magazine with a bike in flames. Tub was mine. My very first Davidson. My only way to get around in a new city. The first bike my daughter rode on. The first bike that instilled a love of motorcycles in a 17 month old little girl.
You can make all the jokes you want about it being “slow”, or a basket case, or ‘oh look, a hog roast!ʼ, but that motorcycle was my beating heart, and I stood on the side of the road as it burned to a crisp.
Sure, it had its issues. What bike that is as old as the rider doesnʼt? But I put 15,000 miles on it, and it taught me a lot. You can buy a motorcycle, and ride it; but you can also buy a motorcycle, and give it life. I found that 1991 FLHS at Woodstock Harley Davidson in Illinois, buried in the back room. One of my brothers had the same bike tore down in his garage, and I knew it was me. Slash cut straight pipes, 16” apes, that bike had my name all over it.
When I moved to San Antonio, I waited 2 months for Harley to get the bike to me. It showed up, and I was on it. Until the ignition went out. Local Indy shop fixed it up, and I was on it. Until the inspection plug came out rolling 80mph down 35 south. Then I was on it. Until the carb was clogged and had to get cleaned out. But I was riding that old HD. Then I blew a tire. Then someone tried to steal it. Then I rode it some more. Until that one trip to Dallas.
My daughter spent a lot of time with me while I changed the battery, changed fluids, replaced highway pegs. She wasn’t even walking and would reach to sit on it when I would walk her by.
If I was taking the battery out to put it on the tender, she HAD to have her wrench. She couldnʼt really do anything, but Iʼll be damned if she didnʼt make sure the moving parts moved. Or didnʼt move. Whatever her little imagination wanted it to be. She just knew she was with the motorcycle and Dad.
Thatʼs what made that trip to Dallas hurt just a little bit more. That bike taught her to love motorcycles. It showed a little girl the value of a good adjustable wrench. And it all went up in flames.
The bike was running better than ever. New air filter, fresh fluids, half the bike had been replaced. Just another trip to Dallas. Fuel stop, fuel stop, Waffle House. Then 10 minutes from my destination, the bike shuts off. ****. Pull onto the shoulder, hit start. “Bro, get off your bike itʼs on fire.” I looked down, flames started coming up from behind the carburetor. F@ck. Grab a shirt from my lid-less saddlebags. Try to put it out. “Itʼs gone, bro, let it go.” And I did. I watched the kickstand melt off, I stood in the grass as the bike was completely engulfed in flames.
I stood there as the fire department sprayed water up my exhaust, peeled the melted seat off, and watched the wiring harness disintegrate, ensuring I wouldnʼt be fixing her.
I helped the tow man drag it onto his flatbed by the engine guard, scratching off the last bit of old school Harley blue. Then I knew it was over. The same bike that I blew life into, that gave life to me, was never going to breathe again.
Iʼll miss you Blue. But youʼll always live on. Through my daughterʼs wrench, and my beating heart.
Also, if anyone feels so moved, a friend made a page for me today because he wanted to do something to help. I am not begging, just sharing it with yall
https://www.gofundme.com/gud2fc-care-for-cowboy
Here is the dying story:
Yep, thatʼs my bike.
Many of you probably saw the post on Quick Throttle magazine with a bike in flames. Tub was mine. My very first Davidson. My only way to get around in a new city. The first bike my daughter rode on. The first bike that instilled a love of motorcycles in a 17 month old little girl.
You can make all the jokes you want about it being “slow”, or a basket case, or ‘oh look, a hog roast!ʼ, but that motorcycle was my beating heart, and I stood on the side of the road as it burned to a crisp.
Sure, it had its issues. What bike that is as old as the rider doesnʼt? But I put 15,000 miles on it, and it taught me a lot. You can buy a motorcycle, and ride it; but you can also buy a motorcycle, and give it life. I found that 1991 FLHS at Woodstock Harley Davidson in Illinois, buried in the back room. One of my brothers had the same bike tore down in his garage, and I knew it was me. Slash cut straight pipes, 16” apes, that bike had my name all over it.
When I moved to San Antonio, I waited 2 months for Harley to get the bike to me. It showed up, and I was on it. Until the ignition went out. Local Indy shop fixed it up, and I was on it. Until the inspection plug came out rolling 80mph down 35 south. Then I was on it. Until the carb was clogged and had to get cleaned out. But I was riding that old HD. Then I blew a tire. Then someone tried to steal it. Then I rode it some more. Until that one trip to Dallas.
My daughter spent a lot of time with me while I changed the battery, changed fluids, replaced highway pegs. She wasn’t even walking and would reach to sit on it when I would walk her by.
If I was taking the battery out to put it on the tender, she HAD to have her wrench. She couldnʼt really do anything, but Iʼll be damned if she didnʼt make sure the moving parts moved. Or didnʼt move. Whatever her little imagination wanted it to be. She just knew she was with the motorcycle and Dad.
Thatʼs what made that trip to Dallas hurt just a little bit more. That bike taught her to love motorcycles. It showed a little girl the value of a good adjustable wrench. And it all went up in flames.
The bike was running better than ever. New air filter, fresh fluids, half the bike had been replaced. Just another trip to Dallas. Fuel stop, fuel stop, Waffle House. Then 10 minutes from my destination, the bike shuts off. ****. Pull onto the shoulder, hit start. “Bro, get off your bike itʼs on fire.” I looked down, flames started coming up from behind the carburetor. F@ck. Grab a shirt from my lid-less saddlebags. Try to put it out. “Itʼs gone, bro, let it go.” And I did. I watched the kickstand melt off, I stood in the grass as the bike was completely engulfed in flames.
I stood there as the fire department sprayed water up my exhaust, peeled the melted seat off, and watched the wiring harness disintegrate, ensuring I wouldnʼt be fixing her.
I helped the tow man drag it onto his flatbed by the engine guard, scratching off the last bit of old school Harley blue. Then I knew it was over. The same bike that I blew life into, that gave life to me, was never going to breathe again.
Iʼll miss you Blue. But youʼll always live on. Through my daughterʼs wrench, and my beating heart.
Also, if anyone feels so moved, a friend made a page for me today because he wanted to do something to help. I am not begging, just sharing it with yall
https://www.gofundme.com/gud2fc-care-for-cowboy
#27
10-12-2018, 05:44 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#29
10-12-2018, 07:22 AM
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#30
10-12-2018, 08:25 AM
Seasoned HDF Member