I considered that last night and knew you'd know (See "The reason I come here" post above).
I'll look and see which wheel set has the best selection of tires. Then maybe look at some pics of what each one looks like on the bike.
Originally Posted by multihdrdr
You didn't ask and I forgot to mention...Tires will negate most wheel weight savings (Of course, these values will be only a Size to Weight reference if you aren't using these exact tires)
A bit of an update but not a rant; it is what it is.
I got back from Daytona/the Keys (had a great time) and took my bike to the dealer yesterday to complete the recall they attempted on 3-11-18. The service writer at Queen City HD got me in without any trouble, without an appointment. I lounged around the waiting area while the tech who originally did my recall flush (but was unable to get it to communicate with DT-II) worked on it.
I wasn't there long before the service writer and tech came out to tell me that HD Tech Support had "linked in" to my bike while the tech had the DT-II unit attached. The sum total was the ABS Electronic Control Unit Part #40649-08 was bad and I didn't have ABS anymore. I'm actually quite proud of how I took it given that I had fully functioning ABS when I came in on 3-11-18 and 45 minutes later after the tech attempted to connect the bike to DT-II I didn't. This part is not the HCU which commonly fails and results in a hard pedal or lever, it's the electronic servo control unit. I change my brake fluid once every 12 months and have those services logged in a maintenance book. Regardless, the electronic unit is unaffected by DOT 4 fluid so that point is moot.
Cost for the part was quoted at just under $500.00 and then labor on top of that. The tech believes it is a firmware failure, he did not go so far as to say it was a result of the failed link to DT-II. Frankly, I don't blame him, that's how he feeds his family. The service writer gave me a reference number and the number to HD Customer Care so I called while I was there. I spoke to a woman who basically, but nicely, quoted the party line and said the recall was ONLY for a fluid flush and the failed part was on me. I explained my view of things again saying I had ABS and no trouble with my bike before I came to the dealer. I had flushed my brake fluid every 12 months and only came in to comply with the recall. The instant the dealer connected the DT-II I lost my ABS function and now I was on the hook for an expensive repair of a system with a dubious design. Her reply was the same but she was pleasant in her response. I told her I wanted someone else to take a look at the case and she agreed to do so. At this point I'm waiting for a call back that according her should come within the next day or so.
I'm contacting NHTSA this morning to file a complaint, not so much for me, but for the next person who goes in for the recall and meets with a similar situation. I don't want HD to have the ability to say "this is the first time this has happened". Frankly, if HD says they won't pay for the repair completely and/or NHTSA doesn't make them, I know what I'm going to do; I will completely remove the system.
I'm kind of surprised how I'm taking all this. I guess I expected this kind of response from HD so that makes it easier. I'm not here to whip anybody into a frenzy or start a Gofundme account for my tale of woe. I'm passing on something that if I were going in for the brake recall and my bike was working fine, I'd want to know. If I knew then what I know now; I wouldn't have taken my bike to the dealer and ignored the recall.
I'll update when I have more info.
Guys I have to do a Hats off to you both here...
I need to add that if this happened to me... I would have lost my keys for.... Mmmm… maybe a couple years! My Wife has a way to deal with issues... At a Higher level than Harley Davidson.. HaHa! It's like going to North Carolina and out to eat... Waitress ask's me If I want Obey... after her asking several times and me drawing some deeply rooted Question Marks (Like I'm here to eat... what's obeying got to do with it? Why in the Hell is the "Waitress" asking me?? She got something else on her mind??? Finally in the next Booth a Naval Commander turned around to face me... Saying your not from here are you? Answering I told him we were visiting, being retired to Thailand... He Explained that "Obay was a Spice they commonly used in the South on Seafood, especially Crabs... Then the Waitress got a deep Red glow about her face and she showed me a Can.
I listen to my Wife (Each time I have used that word... Notice everytime I have typed that word it is Capitalized) If I can't fix it... I don't touch it
So I have never had to part with my keys... You Guys are Good!
Thanks for this post. I am on the recall also but have regularly changed my brake fluid. I've never had any ABS issues and was considering going to the dealer for a "freebie" fluid change but after never having any brake issues the last thing I want to do is spend a grand on my ABS to save the $5 and 30 minutes of my time doing it myself. Already have the speed bleeders and a mighty vac so might as well use them. My only hesitation is that if the HCU or module is going to fail at some point because of inferior design, manufacturing, etc. is it smarter to discover that in the shop vs on the road?
My Buddy took his bike in for the recall last week. Rode it there no problem. When he went to pick it up brakes were completely hard I mean hard.
Went back in the shop and after some looking at the bike they told him he needed a new abs module. WTF! Worked fine until they changed the fluid....
We trailered it out of the dealer.
My only hesitation is that if the HCU or module is going to fail at some point because of inferior design, manufacturing, etc. is it smarter to discover that in the shop vs on the road?
Here's my thoughts on it. I think the ABS cycling done by DTII far exceed the cycling that happens during an ABS event. Because of that, I think you're more likely to have a failure because of DTII/the recall than if you continue to bleed the system every year, then go out and activate the ABS front and rear. Mind you, I'm speaking specifically to the ABS ECU failures during recall work. This isn't the HCU valve that freezes up; this is a failure of the electronic unit that cycles the valves; it is not susceptible to failure from contaminated fluid. Plain and simple, it's a junk Chinese part (as is the HCU).
For me, I'd rather have standard brakes that are only susceptible to becoming inoperable in the same ways every other braking system can, in lieu of the HCU failures that block the master cylinder pressure from the caliper(s). As I've said before, I've ridden a lot of miles without ABS, I suspect I'll ride many more without death or dismemberment. I would absolutely buy ABS on any brand of motorcycle from Japan, Germany or Italy. The trouble is, I ride Harleys and Harley doesn't do technology as well as everyone else.
Originally Posted by Raider Bill
My Buddy took his bike in for the recall last week. Rode it there no problem. When he went to pick it up brakes were completely hard I mean hard.
Went back in the shop and after some looking at the bike they told him he needed a new abs module. WTF! Worked fine until they changed the fluid....
We trailered it out of the dealer.
Your friend has basically three choices.
Pay to have the HCU replaced; that's pricey. It also leaves him open to the ABS ECU failing down the road and that is very, very possible. Parts and labor for both might get near 2 grand when it's all said and done. So fixing this immediate problem is no guarantee that the brakes will never fail or that more money won't have to be thrown at it down the road. Even if he replaced the entire system, all he'll have is what he had before; which is failure prone. Not a good option as far as I was concerned.
Remove the ABS system completely. About 250.00 bucks for lines, caliper/MS rebuild kits, spacers and bearings. Cost effective, makes maintenance easier down the road because you can switch to DOT 5 instead of DOT 4. Downside is you don't have ABS; if that's a big deal to him, that's a big deal. This is my solution.
Trade/sell the bike as is and get raped. There is the possibility of Ebaying another HCU and installing it, then selling the bike but the liability legacy on something like that is just too high; not to mention it would be unethical to have made a repair with a used part and not make the buyer aware of it. If one were to go that route and keep the bike you'd never know when that part would fail as you don't know it's history.
Last edited by Campy Roadie; 04-24-2018 at 06:11 AM.
"Here's my thoughts on it. I think the ABS cycling done by DTII far exceed the cycling that happens during an ABS event. Because of that, I think you're more likely to have a failure because of DTII/the recall than if you continue to bleed the system every year, then go out and activate the ABS front and rear. Mind you, I'm speaking specifically to the ABS ECU failures during recall work. This isn't the HCU valve that freezes up; this is a failure of the electronic unit that cycles the valves; it is not susceptible to failure from contaminated fluid. Plain and simple, it's a junk Chinese part (as is the HCU)."
Quick question. You mention the "Chinese Junk" in your post, do the Rushmore bikes have an upgraded ABS system or is it the same parts. I took my bike in to have the brakes flushed by Arrowhead HD in Phoenix (4/10/18) while down there for bike week on my 2015 RGS because of the $99 special the had going. I asked what the water content of the old brake fluid and was told it was 2%. No issues with brakes after the flush. Thanks goldie
The Rushmore linked ABS system is made by Bosch as far as I know. Only time will tell if it shares any design characteristics of the 08-11 BWI unit.
I should add that the 12-13 ABS units are also said to be made by Bosch and are not part of the recall. However there have been complete brake failure's of those units as well and they carry the same part number as the 08-11 BWI units. This is, at the very least, curious as HD amends part numbers for design changes AND vendor changes. This is the first time I've ever seen a vendor change with no A B or C addition to the original part number. My guess is these non linked units are of the same design based on the failures exactly like the 08-11 BWI units.
Last edited by Campy Roadie; 04-25-2018 at 09:19 PM.
I still ride an Evo so I don't have a dog in this fight. But, for what it's worth, this is one of the better threads I have ever read on any forum, ever.
Great attitude OP. I'd hope that I would have reacted in a similar way. Good luck with the change-over...I'll follow the thread just because
Nomad, pardon my crappy Paint skills but have you considered just getting a short flex line and double length banjo bolts to loop the in and out together right in top of the HCU? Kinda what I was thinking of doing in the future. Then you have brakes no matter what the ABS system does. And you don't have to change all that stuff out. Just another option.
04-04-2018, 08:21 AM
(See "The reason I come here" post above).
(Of course, these values will be only a Size to Weight reference if you aren't using these exact tires)
) If I can't fix it... I don't touch it 
