Nomad, pardon my crappy Paint skills but have you considered just getting a short flex line and double length banjo bolts to loop the in and out together right in top of the HCU? Kinda what I was thinking of doing in the future. Then you have brakes no matter what the ABS system does. And you don't have to change all that stuff out. Just another option.
That - Sir - is thinking outside the box and I applaud you.
Nomad, pardon my crappy Paint skills but have you considered just getting a short flex line and double length banjo bolts to loop the in and out together right in top of the HCU? Kinda what I was thinking of doing in the future. Then you have brakes no matter what the ABS system does. And you don't have to change all that stuff out. Just another option.
Tired,
That would absolutely work and it's what I figured I'd do on a trip if I ever had a failure. My solution keeps me from having to buy the higher priced ABS bearings and keeps the amount of fluid and distance traveled from lever to caliper(s) to a minimum. I like DOT 5 fluid as well; it isn't hygroscopic and I won't have to worry about the corrosive nature of DOT 4 fluid during yearly exchanges (it's silicone based). I'm not completely sure the HCU is compatible with DOT 5 and I do know that 4 and 5 don't mix well no matter how clean you think you flushed everything. I know the unit and all that stuff weighs something but if I'm honest with myself, it's probably like throwing deck chairs off the Titanic to save weight. But, a couple pounds of junk gone is a couple pounds anyway so there is that. I'm probably going to stick a tool or flat repair kit back there in it's place.
The core truth is probably this; I'm taking something off my bike that (in my opinion) Harley had no business dabbling in. Kind of a rebel with a cause thing I guess
As it stands at this moment I don't have to do anything. My HCU is operable and neither brake is inoperable. The ABS ECU that cycles the HCU is dead so the system can't self test and close/open the valves so they can be stuck closed. The ABS fuse is removed so that's another assurance that the HCU valves can't stick closed, there's no way for them to be actuated. My fluid is fresh so I have a up to 2 years to get it done. Once it's hot for good this summer and I'm riding my Super Glide, I'll take the Road King offline, pull everything and make it a non-ABS bike.
Last edited by Campy Roadie; 04-25-2018 at 09:14 PM.
That - Sir - is thinking outside the box and I applaud you.
Ed,
What do you make of the part number thing I pointed out. Am I wrong about part numbers not staying the same when vendors change? If anyone here would know, it has to be you.
What do you make of the part number thing I pointed out. Am I wrong about part numbers not staying the same when vendors change? If anyone here would know, it has to be you.
I haven't bee following the thread - just read a post by chance. What's the P/N question? I can tell you that I did see some inconsistencies over the years.
When I was on the Tech Lines, we were told that the P/N suffix (A,B,C) can change due to numerous reasons such as material, spec, programming (example a TSSM), new etc but a suffix change always means it retro fits. -D fits in place of -C all the way back to the P/N without the suffix.
Then, and actual P/N change meant a new fitment.
I am not 100% that a different vendor required a change but I seem to remember something about it should have been a suffix change - but wasn't always adhered to and then it became hard to differentiate parts. Depending on who you ask you'll get different answers on what happened vs what was supposed to happen over the years.
I haven't bee following the thread - just read a post by chance. What's the P/N question? I can tell you that I did see some inconsistencies over the years.
When I was on the Tech Lines, we were told that the P/N suffix (A,B,C) can change due to numerous reasons such as material, spec, programming (example a TSSM), new etc but a suffix change always means it retro fits. -D fits in place of -C all the way back to the P/N without the suffix.
Then, and actual P/N change meant a new fitment.
I am not 100% that a different vendor required a change but I seem to remember something about it should have been a suffix change - but wasn't always adhered to and then it became hard to differentiate parts. Depending on who you ask you'll get different answers on what happened vs what was supposed to happen over the years.
Thank you Ed.
These are the part numbers for 2011 which are the subject of the recall and made by BWI.
48343-09 MODULATOR ASSEMBLY, HYDRAULIC, ABS UNIT
40649-08 CONTROLLER, ELECTRONIC, ABS UNIT W/ REF # 3
The 2012 and 2013 models have the exact part numbers, are reported to be made by Bosch and are not part of the recall. However, there have been HCU failures in 2012-13 bikes just like the 2008-2011 models.
It's my guess that it's at the very least the same design so it's likely to be just as susceptible to failure. The fact that the part number didn't get a phonetic revision is interesting especially since I know of at least one dealer who spoke with HD Tech who told them the 12-13 units weren't backward compatible to 2008-2011 machines. The questions in my mind are:
If it's different then why not use a different part number and why are some 2012-13 models failing in the exact same way the 08-11 units are?
Last edited by Campy Roadie; 04-26-2018 at 05:03 AM.
That would absolutely work and it's what I figured I'd do on a trip if I ever had a failure. My solution keeps me from having to buy the higher priced ABS bearings and keeps the amount of fluid and distance traveled from lever to caliper(s) to a minimum. I like DOT 5 fluid as well; it isn't hygroscopic and I won't have to worry about the corrosive nature of DOT 4 fluid during yearly exchanges (it's silicone based). I'm not completely sure the HCU is compatible with DOT 5 and I do know that 4 and 5 don't mix well no matter how clean you think you flushed everything. I know the unit and all that stuff weighs something but if I'm honest with myself, it's probably like throwing deck chairs off the Titanic to save weight. But, a couple pounds of junk gone is a couple pounds anyway so there is that. I'm probably going to stick a tool or flat repair kit back there in it's place.
The core truth is probably this; I'm taking something off my bike that (in my opinion) Harley had no business dabbling in. Kind of a rebel with a cause thing I guess
As it stands at this moment I don't have to do anything. My HCU is operable and neither brake is inoperable. The ABS ECU that cycles the HCU is dead so the system can't self test and close/open the valves so they can be stuck closed. The ABS fuse is removed so that's another assurance that the HCU valves can't stick closed, there's no way for them to be actuated. My fluid is fresh so I have a up to 2 years to get it done. Once it's hot for good this summer and I'm riding my Super Glide, I'll take the Road King offline, pull everything and make it a non-ABS bike.
I certainly understand the attraction of eliminating that problem child and having a nice clean and simple installation. I have the p/n's and prices all written down for non-ABS lines myself if I decide to go that route in the future.
These are the part numbers for 2011 which are the subject of the recall and made by BWI.
48343-09 MODULATOR ASSEMBLY, HYDRAULIC, ABS UNIT
40649-08 CONTROLLER, ELECTRONIC, ABS UNIT W/ REF # 3
The 2012 and 2013 models have the exact part numbers, are reported to be made by Bosch and are not part of the recall. However, there have been HCU failures in 2012-13 bikes just like the 2008-2011 models.
It's my guess that it's at the very least the same design so it's likely to be just as susceptible to failure. The fact that the part number didn't get a phonetic revision is interesting especially since I know of at least one dealer who spoke with HD Tech who told them the 12-13 units weren't backward compatible to 2008-2011 machines. The questions in my mind are:
If it's different then why not use a different part number and why are some 2012-13 models failing in the exact same way the 08-11 units are?
Nomad - I contacted a friend who recently left H-D engineering because your question really made me think back and I wanted to double check my answer. Here is the answer I received on Part numbers - it's pretty much in line with my previous post:
Retrofittable = Rev (-A, -B etc)
Not retrofittable = new P/N
Vendor change gets weird. Could be no change at all if it's supposed to be identical (see my comment about hard to track in previous post), could be a REV if there are tweaks and could be a new P/N if it's required to be tracked (regulatory)
In some instances, there have been new P/N's when not required. These are just the basic rules.
This whole ABS thing is a mess. I can tell you the history of ABS and how it was originally an adapted system to be able to sell police bikes, how it needed to change for regular production (there was a lot of emphasis on not being able to hook lines up incorrectly), all the way up through what we were told and taught in classes. In one of my posts I talked about the transition from DOT5 to DOT4.
I remember riding to Sturgis with an engineer who had a pre-release touring bike with ABS and they were still working out the deceleration rate calculations. Initially it looked like a great system, and that's why I got it on my girlfriends 2008 Street Glide. I bleed the brakes, and have never seen cloudy fluid out of it, but just knowing it can fail in this mode scares me as she is not the kind of rider who would be able to recover quick enough in a panic situation if brakes failed. We were also told it fails to conventional brakes - not the way it is currently failing.
Ed
Last edited by Ed Ramberger; 04-26-2018 at 08:49 AM.
Thank you very much Ed. I'm nothing but a guy who loves to ride and a one car garage hack. Knowing who you are and that this system gives you pause makes me more confident to follow the path I'm on (to remove it completely). I rode one of the first Twin Cam motors with ABS at my old job.
Last edited by Campy Roadie; 04-26-2018 at 09:37 AM.
The 2012 and 2013 models have the exact part numbers, are reported to be made by Bosch and are not part of the recall. However, there have been HCU failures in 2012-13 bikes just like the 2008-2011 models.
Just ran across this thread. I am very familiar about the abs failures and was one of the first to post about it a few years ago when my hcu locked up the front brake fluid circuit. Back then, no one believed it was an issue and I got a lot of push back.
My question is, what is your source that the 12-13 bikes hcu are made by Bosch?
Im still sitting on the Free Flush Recall. Im not convinced taking the bike to the dealer is a good idea. This recall should be a loss for MoCo and its turned out to be the opposite. I spoke with the Service Manager at HD Folsom Ca. and he confirmed that several bikes have failed during the recall flush and require hcu and or ecu replacement. And of course labor.
04-25-2018, 08:46 PM
