Just took an ERC class. Some observations
#1
06-22-2015, 06:23 AM
Just took an ERC class. Some observations
Saturday, I took an Experienced Rider Course here in CT. I assume they are all pretty similar, as it looks like they were using the MSF books.
Me: took the BRC in October. First time riding. Have put about 1,100 miles on my 2007 FXD since then. No long slab rides. Mix of all types, not much highway, but some. I now feel I have an appropriate level of confidence for my skills, which are good, but of course no where good enough yet, thus some extra training. Most important thing for me has been not riding with fear, but caution, and staying within my personal limits. That being said, riding has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I'm 43.
The class: my Dyna, 2 EGs, 1 Road King, 2 Suzuki Boulevards, 1 BMW, 1 Honda 750 something, and 1 Ninja 500. The only young kid was on the Ninja - he was the son of one of the Suzuki riders.
Despite the young kid, it was clear to me that I had the least experience in the class.
The class its self was mostly the second day of the BRC, panic stop, u-turn box, cornering, friction zone pause, etc. Nothing I had not done before, but of course, this is all good stuff to practice under the critical eye of an instructor.
The instructors were great - evo low rider for one, evo wide glide for the other.
Some riders were really good, but like the RK rider told me, while he had years of experience (he was really good) he only had 500 or so miles on his bike, coming from a Dyna, so he wanted to do a class with it.
Halfway through the class the rain came. Parking lot had somewhat fresh seal coat. Can you see where this is going?
Two of 10 dumped their bikes from front brake overuse. Both OK, minimal damage to the Ninja and a Boulevard.
For me, I had never ridden in the rain before. Ever. I'll say that during the evaluation at the end, I lost 7 points during the emergency stop. I didn't care, no way was I gonna dump my bike.
In the end, the course was worthwhile for me, what lost not pushing my limits due to rain, I more than made up for by actually practicing in the rain in a controlled environment. I won't plan a rainy ride anytime soon, but I will not fear getting caught in a spritz the way I might have before.
My last takeaway is that a few very experienced riders, who were otherwise good, had some bad habits IMHO, and had a hard time doing some of the requested tasks. One guy simpley did not really corner. Really. All turns about the radius a tractor trailer would need.
In the end I'm glad I did it, it was not what I expected, and in some ways it was harder than street riding, but I guess that's the point.
Me: took the BRC in October. First time riding. Have put about 1,100 miles on my 2007 FXD since then. No long slab rides. Mix of all types, not much highway, but some. I now feel I have an appropriate level of confidence for my skills, which are good, but of course no where good enough yet, thus some extra training. Most important thing for me has been not riding with fear, but caution, and staying within my personal limits. That being said, riding has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I'm 43.
The class: my Dyna, 2 EGs, 1 Road King, 2 Suzuki Boulevards, 1 BMW, 1 Honda 750 something, and 1 Ninja 500. The only young kid was on the Ninja - he was the son of one of the Suzuki riders.
Despite the young kid, it was clear to me that I had the least experience in the class.
The class its self was mostly the second day of the BRC, panic stop, u-turn box, cornering, friction zone pause, etc. Nothing I had not done before, but of course, this is all good stuff to practice under the critical eye of an instructor.
The instructors were great - evo low rider for one, evo wide glide for the other.
Some riders were really good, but like the RK rider told me, while he had years of experience (he was really good) he only had 500 or so miles on his bike, coming from a Dyna, so he wanted to do a class with it.
Halfway through the class the rain came. Parking lot had somewhat fresh seal coat. Can you see where this is going?
Two of 10 dumped their bikes from front brake overuse. Both OK, minimal damage to the Ninja and a Boulevard.
For me, I had never ridden in the rain before. Ever. I'll say that during the evaluation at the end, I lost 7 points during the emergency stop. I didn't care, no way was I gonna dump my bike.
In the end, the course was worthwhile for me, what lost not pushing my limits due to rain, I more than made up for by actually practicing in the rain in a controlled environment. I won't plan a rainy ride anytime soon, but I will not fear getting caught in a spritz the way I might have before.
My last takeaway is that a few very experienced riders, who were otherwise good, had some bad habits IMHO, and had a hard time doing some of the requested tasks. One guy simpley did not really corner. Really. All turns about the radius a tractor trailer would need.
In the end I'm glad I did it, it was not what I expected, and in some ways it was harder than street riding, but I guess that's the point.
#2
06-22-2015, 06:45 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Sounds like the front wheel was turned while the front brake was applied. That is why they dumped their bikes.
As far as bad habits go, a lot of that has to do with buying a bike bigger than the skill set. When I purchased my first sport bike, I realized fast that riding HDs have gave me some very bad habits to the point where I had to basically start over.
As far as bad habits go, a lot of that has to do with buying a bike bigger than the skill set. When I purchased my first sport bike, I realized fast that riding HDs have gave me some very bad habits to the point where I had to basically start over.
#3
06-23-2015, 01:27 AM
Tourer
Thanks for the great write up.
You and I are in the same position, I took my BRC in October in Massachusetts with no pervious experience. Been planning on taking the ERC this fall, I thought a full year of riding would help. I did not relies that it was basically the same course and was afraid I would dump my ride (Road King Classic). And as "Next in line" stated I did by a bigger bike then my experience allowed. I now have 7,000 miles on it
As for your statement about not riding in the rain. My biggest scare yet came from riding in the rain and a bolt of lighting landed close enough to make my hair on my neck stand up. quickly found a gas station to hang at for an hour.
Where did you take your ERC. I live in Rhode Island and there is none offered in R.I. I did my BRC in Mass at Minuteman Harley and really liked the instructor and was planning on going back but they are an hour and half away.
You and I are in the same position, I took my BRC in October in Massachusetts with no pervious experience. Been planning on taking the ERC this fall, I thought a full year of riding would help. I did not relies that it was basically the same course and was afraid I would dump my ride (Road King Classic). And as "Next in line" stated I did by a bigger bike then my experience allowed. I now have 7,000 miles on it
As for your statement about not riding in the rain. My biggest scare yet came from riding in the rain and a bolt of lighting landed close enough to make my hair on my neck stand up. quickly found a gas station to hang at for an hour.
Where did you take your ERC. I live in Rhode Island and there is none offered in R.I. I did my BRC in Mass at Minuteman Harley and really liked the instructor and was planning on going back but they are an hour and half away.
#4
06-23-2015, 01:56 AM
Cruiser
Saturday, I took an Experienced Rider Course here in CT. I assume they are all pretty similar, as it looks like they were using the MSF books.
Me: took the BRC in October. First time riding. Have put about 1,100 miles on my 2007 FXD since then. No long slab rides. Mix of all types, not much highway, but some. I now feel I have an appropriate level of confidence for my skills, which are good, but of course no where good enough yet, thus some extra training. Most important thing for me has been not riding with fear, but caution, and staying within my personal limits. That being said, riding has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I'm 43.
The class: my Dyna, 2 EGs, 1 Road King, 2 Suzuki Boulevards, 1 BMW, 1 Honda 750 something, and 1 Ninja 500. The only young kid was on the Ninja - he was the son of one of the Suzuki riders.
Despite the young kid, it was clear to me that I had the least experience in the class.
The class its self was mostly the second day of the BRC, panic stop, u-turn box, cornering, friction zone pause, etc. Nothing I had not done before, but of course, this is all good stuff to practice under the critical eye of an instructor.
The instructors were great - evo low rider for one, evo wide glide for the other.
Some riders were really good, but like the RK rider told me, while he had years of experience (he was really good) he only had 500 or so miles on his bike, coming from a Dyna, so he wanted to do a class with it.
Halfway through the class the rain came. Parking lot had somewhat fresh seal coat. Can you see where this is going?
Two of 10 dumped their bikes from front brake overuse. Both OK, minimal damage to the Ninja and a Boulevard.
For me, I had never ridden in the rain before. Ever. I'll say that during the evaluation at the end, I lost 7 points during the emergency stop. I didn't care, no way was I gonna dump my bike.
In the end, the course was worthwhile for me, what lost not pushing my limits due to rain, I more than made up for by actually practicing in the rain in a controlled environment. I won't plan a rainy ride anytime soon, but I will not fear getting caught in a spritz the way I might have before.
My last takeaway is that a few very experienced riders, who were otherwise good, had some bad habits IMHO, and had a hard time doing some of the requested tasks. One guy simpley did not really corner. Really. All turns about the radius a tractor trailer would need.
In the end I'm glad I did it, it was not what I expected, and in some ways it was harder than street riding, but I guess that's the point.
Me: took the BRC in October. First time riding. Have put about 1,100 miles on my 2007 FXD since then. No long slab rides. Mix of all types, not much highway, but some. I now feel I have an appropriate level of confidence for my skills, which are good, but of course no where good enough yet, thus some extra training. Most important thing for me has been not riding with fear, but caution, and staying within my personal limits. That being said, riding has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I'm 43.
The class: my Dyna, 2 EGs, 1 Road King, 2 Suzuki Boulevards, 1 BMW, 1 Honda 750 something, and 1 Ninja 500. The only young kid was on the Ninja - he was the son of one of the Suzuki riders.
Despite the young kid, it was clear to me that I had the least experience in the class.
The class its self was mostly the second day of the BRC, panic stop, u-turn box, cornering, friction zone pause, etc. Nothing I had not done before, but of course, this is all good stuff to practice under the critical eye of an instructor.
The instructors were great - evo low rider for one, evo wide glide for the other.
Some riders were really good, but like the RK rider told me, while he had years of experience (he was really good) he only had 500 or so miles on his bike, coming from a Dyna, so he wanted to do a class with it.
Halfway through the class the rain came. Parking lot had somewhat fresh seal coat. Can you see where this is going?
Two of 10 dumped their bikes from front brake overuse. Both OK, minimal damage to the Ninja and a Boulevard.
For me, I had never ridden in the rain before. Ever. I'll say that during the evaluation at the end, I lost 7 points during the emergency stop. I didn't care, no way was I gonna dump my bike.
In the end, the course was worthwhile for me, what lost not pushing my limits due to rain, I more than made up for by actually practicing in the rain in a controlled environment. I won't plan a rainy ride anytime soon, but I will not fear getting caught in a spritz the way I might have before.
My last takeaway is that a few very experienced riders, who were otherwise good, had some bad habits IMHO, and had a hard time doing some of the requested tasks. One guy simpley did not really corner. Really. All turns about the radius a tractor trailer would need.
In the end I'm glad I did it, it was not what I expected, and in some ways it was harder than street riding, but I guess that's the point.
#5
06-23-2015, 04:34 AM
Thanks for the great write up.
You and I are in the same position, I took my BRC in October in Massachusetts with no pervious experience. Been planning on taking the ERC this fall, I thought a full year of riding would help. I did not relies that it was basically the same course and was afraid I would dump my ride (Road King Classic). And as "Next in line" stated I did by a bigger bike then my experience allowed. I now have 7,000 miles on it
As for your statement about not riding in the rain. My biggest scare yet came from riding in the rain and a bolt of lighting landed close enough to make my hair on my neck stand up. quickly found a gas station to hang at for an hour.
Where did you take your ERC. I live in Rhode Island and there is none offered in R.I. I did my BRC in Mass at Minuteman Harley and really liked the instructor and was planning on going back but they are an hour and half away.
You and I are in the same position, I took my BRC in October in Massachusetts with no pervious experience. Been planning on taking the ERC this fall, I thought a full year of riding would help. I did not relies that it was basically the same course and was afraid I would dump my ride (Road King Classic). And as "Next in line" stated I did by a bigger bike then my experience allowed. I now have 7,000 miles on it
As for your statement about not riding in the rain. My biggest scare yet came from riding in the rain and a bolt of lighting landed close enough to make my hair on my neck stand up. quickly found a gas station to hang at for an hour.
Where did you take your ERC. I live in Rhode Island and there is none offered in R.I. I did my BRC in Mass at Minuteman Harley and really liked the instructor and was planning on going back but they are an hour and half away.
#6
06-23-2015, 05:02 AM
Intermediate
I did the ERC in a few different places. My takeout is that it is a more refined BRC. The box is smaller by a bit and all the tolerances are a bit more stringent. Ive taken 3 BRC and 2 ERC and a MOST 2 (military moving around) and its interesting to see the styles from different courses. Some are deff much more beneficial than others, but all I came away with something.
#7
06-23-2015, 07:44 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
I took the basic course about 5 years ago and the advanced course 2 years ago. I was pretty disappointed in the advanced course. Mainly because half of the riders were clearly brand new riders, who had figured out that you could avoid the DMV tests & basic course, and get their endorsements by taking this half day course. It was waaay less information than the other courses and there was NO written or verbal tests. Basically, if you made it through the course without laying down your bike, you passed!
So, leaving there, there were 5 brand new riders who loop-holed their way to endorsements with very little testing OR experience.
So, leaving there, there were 5 brand new riders who loop-holed their way to endorsements with very little testing OR experience.
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#8
06-23-2015, 07:49 AM
Proper Setup Matter a LOT
There isn't any substitute for training and practice. However if the bike is a poor physical fit for you then taking these courses is only HALF the solution.
Harleys are often hard to control because nowadays the factory puts super low seats on them to sell the bike to "little people."
Just look at where the "proper" seat position was back before Harley started selling their huge bikes to "little people."
If your bike is awkward to control you will have trouble looking like a good rider although some guys can ride anything no matter how bad it is set up.
But have you noticed how often bike testers comment on the "natural" pointing qualities of say a Triumph Bonneville? That is because the seat bars and pegs on a Bonneville are all in the PERFECT place for a normal sized BIG guy around five eight to six foot.
I really don't know WHO fits on a Harley the way they come nowadays.
It is all about marketing today and not about rider "feel."
What I am saying is that if you want to "improve" your skills on the ERC or out on the road GET YOUR HARLEY TO FIT YOU BETTER.
I KNOW I will get flamed for this by guys that either don't know what a bike is supposed to feel like or that just like to play the one-upmanship game to death. That's fine.
But if it saves your life because I made you THINK about a better setup then mission accomplished...
Using myself as an example I am a standard six footer and the way my Deuce came from the factory the bars were "pulled back" and it steered like a boat tiller. The seat was slippery and too narrow and too low. The pegs were up too high and much too close so I rode around with my knees in my chin, falling off the bike. GREAT!
After five differend bars, extending the pegs and lowering them and four different saddles I THINK I am closing in on the "PERFECT" setup.
EACH improvement has felt like "A Whole New Bike."
Even though I "wasted" money trying things out the more I enjoyed riding the bike the more the cost of owning a Harley made sense.
And by the way I have a perfectly set up New Bonneville with an even BETTER seat and bars than stock. And my HARLEY is right up there with the Bonneville now for feeling "right."
I might not be a better rider even after training and practice but the BIKE makes me look like one, haha.
End of rant.
Last edited by rleedeuce; 06-23-2015 at 08:09 AM.
#9
06-23-2015, 09:06 AM
I'm an MSF Rider Coach and we often get "experienced" riders taking the BRC just to get their endorsement or because the judge "suggested" they get it or face a hefty fine. It's always fun to see those who go from day one thinking there's nothing they can be taught to the final day when most admit they weren't as good as they thought they were.
I always enjoy taking any class as the student because it's good to get feed back from someone watching me ride. Even as a coach I find myself falling into bad habits and there's always room for improvement.
There's another course called "Ride Like a Pro" that's put on by an ex motor officer. They teach you the techniques of close quarter riding and maneuvering. I started with the DVD and practiced in a parking lot before I actually took the course. It's fairly expensive but I learned a lot and it's amazing what you can do with an 850 lb motorcycle.
Regardless of which class you take it's always good to have the practice.
Don't forget, if you are a HOG member they'll give you a $50 gift card each year for taking some form of state sanctioned rider education; doesn't have to be MSF specifically.
Ride Safe!
I always enjoy taking any class as the student because it's good to get feed back from someone watching me ride. Even as a coach I find myself falling into bad habits and there's always room for improvement.
There's another course called "Ride Like a Pro" that's put on by an ex motor officer. They teach you the techniques of close quarter riding and maneuvering. I started with the DVD and practiced in a parking lot before I actually took the course. It's fairly expensive but I learned a lot and it's amazing what you can do with an 850 lb motorcycle.
Regardless of which class you take it's always good to have the practice.
Don't forget, if you are a HOG member they'll give you a $50 gift card each year for taking some form of state sanctioned rider education; doesn't have to be MSF specifically.
Ride Safe!
Last edited by dsigrist; 06-23-2015 at 09:09 AM.
#10
06-23-2015, 10:43 AM
Now I have no problem with proper rake and some fashion over form if you have some experience riding and a grasp on how to make a bike really do what you want.
I see guys starting on street glides, or wide glides which I am sure are great bikes. But I kind of feel sorry for them that they don't know what a light bike can be like.
Then Harley comes out with a great bike in the Street and of course it gets a black eye when any experienced rider knows it will ride circles around a big twin.
I have a Heritage and it is a beast compared to my Triumph. And that is OK as I have plenty of experience that I can translate over to an 800 pound bike. And It Is a great bike for what it is. I am just glad I didn't learn on it as I feel that it would have slowed my progress as a rider.
Where did I learn the most? Dual sports.
However, even though I have several decades of riding under me I really want to take an advance class. But I am also the guy you spy riding tight circles and practicing riding skills in empty parking lots...even after 20 years.
