Harley-Davidson Sales Go From Bad To Worse
#121
05-13-2018, 08:40 AM
Road Warrior
... The MOCO needs to focus on superiority off the show room floor. They need to get rid of the must upgrade after the sale model mentality. Why should i have to spend near $700 for a seat so my passenger after spending $20k plus for a new ride is comfortable? Why do i need to pay for a aftermarket windshield so i can hear my stereo at speed. HD sales will continue to decline until they embrace those that expect more for their money. When you pay 25K for a bike you shouldn't have to spend a cent to make it ride like it should off the show room floor.
#122
05-13-2018, 11:53 AM
Elite HDF Member
If Polaris/Indian ever figures out not to just make retro-styled bikes all in the same vein, they will really put a hurt on the MoCo. I'm fine with it as HD needs strong competition.
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#123
05-13-2018, 03:24 PM
Fair enough. My problem, if you will, is that I'm a very analytical person. When someone says to me "if I have to explain..." it kinda pisses me off because it implies I'm an idiot. The reason I asked is because I'm taking a much deeper thought process on the topic than the superficial context with which the comment originated. In this instance, your implication of "having to explain to me = not understanding the allure of HD" is rooted in the thought process of blindly buying into HD without any logic or interpretation into the design and performance of the product and basing purchase solely on the stigma and social allure of owning an HD, nothing more. This, IMO accounts for more than 50% of HD's sales.
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#124
05-13-2018, 03:56 PM
Banned
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#125
05-13-2018, 04:31 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
When I heard Polaris as well as Indian were in the Made in the USA motorcycle game, I was optimistically hoping for an in-line 4 cylinder crotch rocket in addition to the cruisers. Nothing ever materialized. Too bad I guess, cause a simple, reasonably priced 600 or 1000cc sport bike from our country would probably be a seller. I mean crap, buy a Suzuki and a Kawasaki, reverse engineer the dann things, and make one just like it. Slap Harley badges and flags all over it, and people would line up to buy it. There's the millennial market they are after, all wrapped up and ready to go. I guess it's just a pipe dream.
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#126
05-13-2018, 06:16 PM
This.
When I heard Polaris as well as Indian were in the Made in the USA motorcycle game, I was optimistically hoping for an in-line 4 cylinder crotch rocket in addition to the cruisers. Nothing ever materialized. Too bad I guess, cause a simple, reasonably priced 600 or 1000cc sport bike from our country would probably be a seller. I mean crap, buy a Suzuki and a Kawasaki, reverse engineer the dann things, and make one just like it. Slap Harley badges and flags all over it, and people would line up to buy it. There's the millennial market they are after, all wrapped up and ready to go. I guess it's just a pipe dream.
When I heard Polaris as well as Indian were in the Made in the USA motorcycle game, I was optimistically hoping for an in-line 4 cylinder crotch rocket in addition to the cruisers. Nothing ever materialized. Too bad I guess, cause a simple, reasonably priced 600 or 1000cc sport bike from our country would probably be a seller. I mean crap, buy a Suzuki and a Kawasaki, reverse engineer the dann things, and make one just like it. Slap Harley badges and flags all over it, and people would line up to buy it. There's the millennial market they are after, all wrapped up and ready to go. I guess it's just a pipe dream.
#127
05-13-2018, 08:01 PM
i think Harley should get back to basics with dealerships,stop with the boutiques, fancy dealership with their outrageous overhead,id rather see a dealership in a old closed down kmart,get a better deal and pay their techs better so i don't feel like I'm getting the bums rush,and fix their short comings on bikes we pay good money for so people keep coming back for superior product,not because theres not a better choice,just my 2 cents worth
#128
05-14-2018, 09:44 AM
Supporter
What several people and myself have tried to say is that there are several mistakes that the Harley Davidson design and marketing teams have made over the last 5+ years. For example, I mentioned my Hayabusa because I was told by several dealerships that they and Harley Davison were claiming that the Vrod was their better version of my Hayabusa and my friends ZX14 for example. The point is simple, we didn't care and this was like someone saying that their Chrysler 300 is better than a Rolls Royce.
I haven't seen one person in this thread that is even saying that Harley Davidson needs their version of a crotch rocket. Harley Davidson is the one that is trying to make a Vrod and the new crotch rocket looking electric motorcycle as ways to get young riders.
There are people like myself that think the Wide Glide was one of the last Chopper looking old school looking Harley Davidson motorcycles made. I see Wide Glides still everywhere. I used to own one until 2 years ago when I went to a Low Rider S.
I commented on a thread similar to this that I am waiting for the Harley design team to come out with a "Martha Stewart Edition" Harley Davidson with Martha Stewart pictured on the gas tank making dinner as their new idea for attracting more female riders.
Harley Davidson has to quit bringing in designers that used to design blankets, tablecloths and kitchen wallpaper. There has been several recent motorcycles that were suppose to be "old school" looking and yet the design team made poor attempts at making them "look modern" also. A good example would be when FORD made a new version of the legendary Lemans winning FORD GT40 (now called the FORD GT). They did an excellent job making it look like the legendary 1960's race car and making it look a little modern also.
The top picture was the new 2005 FORD GT that was designed to look like the 1960's legendary FORD GT40 (bottom picture). Notice the great job their design team did making the FORD GT look like the original race car and still giving it some modern designs like the headlights.
Several of us have commented on the paint designs on several of the motorcycles being horrible and a major reason we didn't purchase the motorcycles .
Many folks buy their Harley's and just ride them - stock - for many thousands of miles. I'd venture to say a very substantial percentage do little more than add slip-ons and ride the crap out of them.
People bitch and moan that they "have" to spends "thousands and thousands" of dollars to get their Harley's to act precisely the way they want it to, but I think what they're missing is that they CAN make those modifications, not they MUST. Just TRY making the amount and varied modifications to an Indian that are available for a Harley. Hell, that's one of Harleys strengths, in my opinion, is that you can make it exactly the way you want it.
Too, look at the new Softails... you've got just as many people bemoaning how "Japanese" they look as you do folks who bemoan that Harley is "stuck in the past". There really is no pleasing everyone.
I've actually owned a Victory (Kingpin) and rode it for thousands of miles, for two years, on stock suspension. It handled "ok", and definitely better than my Softail Deuce did, but not "OMG this suspension sucks ***** compared to my Victory" better. Also, I find my 2016 RGS (with stock suspension) rides pretty damn good, even compared to my 2010 Ultra with the 13" air suspension. I'll never know how much "better" aftermarket suspension is or could be, because I think it rides just fine now. And I think it rides every bit as good as any Indian I've test ridden.
There's a reason Harley still owns half the heavy cruiser market - because they DO make a superior product. At least, superior in that many folks prefer them, trust them, and ride the crap out of them, without six cylinder engines or electric windscreens. Many folks bemoan what Harley isn't or doesn't do that other brands do - that's fine. If one absolutely HAS to have an electric windscreen, there are many options available for that. Me, I love my Harley, and it has little to do with brand loyalty. I just love the bike.
#129
05-14-2018, 09:12 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
It's not the Gibson guitar division that was the problem, it was buying Phillips' home entertainment division on borrowed money that brought the bankruptcy on. Think about it, if Phillips thought there was growth to be had in that division, why would they sell it? the saw Henry coming, that;'s for sure.
#130
05-14-2018, 09:12 PM
Seasoned HDF Member