ABS VS non ABS
#21
09-14-2018, 09:52 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
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#22
09-14-2018, 10:32 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#23
09-14-2018, 10:42 AM
You are 100 % spot on. Out of all the things humans are great at we are completely useless at judging things. We are horrible at estimating, distance, force, weight, temperate and so on. That's why ABS saves lives, it doesn't care if its 33 degrees outside and raining or 120 and sunshine. It doesn't work 12 hour shifts and gets tired at the end of the day. It only has one job and it does it well.
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#24
09-14-2018, 11:06 AM
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wow.... again lots of heated opinions. I've been on both sides of the abs issue. Personally I prefer not to have them on my bike. Car/van...ok. But bike, no. Here in Michigan I often find myself with the front brake locked up/locked down or whatever you wish to call it when stopping and hitting a pot hole/rut/bad pavement. I find that very disconcerting. I grew up, like others, learning to control stopping with brake modulation. I have a Ford van with abs....the system went out and I lost my brakes. Yeah, I know, so what do you do with fluid leaks, right?? Well this had no warning and I bumped another car because the brakes would not actuate. But.... it's there, I've learned it, and I don't worry about it. I don't care for it. if I had a choice.... well, that's my decision, not yours.
I just wish some of us could have an opposing belief or opinion without others criticizing me because I don't think/act/look/talk like you!
I just wish some of us could have an opposing belief or opinion without others criticizing me because I don't think/act/look/talk like you!
#25
09-14-2018, 11:57 AM
Road Captain
oh The Lies We Tell ourselves. I'm not going to get drawn into a big discussion but here's one scenario where it wouldn't be good. Rider who's driven with abs his entire life is on the way home when all of a sudden the ABS light comes on. He starts thinking to himself I'll head over to the dealership so they can fix it. Lo and behold on the way he gets into a situation where he has to break suddenly to avoid a collision. Of course he has no idea how to break except for to lay on the anchors! And Bam he's dead and your statement is now invalid.
#26
09-14-2018, 11:59 AM
Road Master
actually that is what most people do when faced with an emergency. You might be the exception, but it takes a ton of skill and lots of practice to master threshold braking without locking them up....in fact there was a news article just today about making ABS brakes mandatory for all motorcycles by I believe 2020.
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#27
09-14-2018, 12:01 PM
Road Captain
actually that is what most people do when faced with an emergency. You might be the exception, but it takes a ton of skill and lots of practice to master threshold braking without locking them up....in fact there was a news article just today about making ABS brakes mandatory for all motorcycles by I believe 2020.
, an old lie they tell to try to excuse themselves from having to make an investment of their time and personal financial resources in obtaining competent rider training to develop their skill set to a survivable degree of competency.
It is especially ironic (and unfortunate) that threshold braking suddenly becomes the most important thing in the world to them only in the last instant of their lives, when they suddenly try to master it all at once, in their last instant on this earth.
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 09-30-2018 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Multiple posts
#28
09-14-2018, 12:09 PM
Cruiser
There you go putting words in my mouth. Nowhere in my statement did I say anything close to what you're saying. I was only giving one scenario where ABS would not be the best option. Unfortunately as people can see from reading this Thread when someone forms such a strong opinion that they then confuse their opinion with fact. If you reread what I said I was not even particularly taking a side in this discussion.
#29
09-14-2018, 12:11 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
oh The Lies We Tell ourselves. I'm not going to get drawn into a big discussion but here's one scenario where it wouldn't be good. Rider who's driven with abs his entire life is on the way home when all of a sudden the ABS light comes on. He starts thinking to himself I'll head over to the dealership so they can fix it. Lo and behold on the way he gets into a situation where he has to break suddenly to avoid a collision. Of course he has no idea how to break except for to lay on the anchors! And Bam he's dead and your statement is now invalid.
In many ways, ABS can teach you how to brake better if you look at the system as something you never want to use. Practice braking hard with ABS and if it activates, you know you went too far. It's a good way of learning the threshold of your brakes. With the added benefit that you won't actually lock up the wheels and drop the bike.
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#30
09-14-2018, 12:12 PM
Road Captain
wow.... again lots of heated opinions. I've been on both sides of the abs issue. Personally I prefer not to have them on my bike. Car/van...ok. But bike, no. Here in Michigan I often find myself with the front brake locked up/locked down or whatever you wish to call it when stopping and hitting a pot hole/rut/bad pavement. I find that very disconcerting. I grew up, like others, learning to control stopping with brake modulation. I have a Ford van with abs....the system went out and I lost my brakes. Yeah, I know, so what do you do with fluid leaks, right?? Well this had no warning and I bumped another car because the brakes would not actuate. But.... it's there, I've learned it, and I don't worry about it. I don't care for it. if I had a choice.... well, that's my decision, not yours.
I just wish some of us could have an opposing belief or opinion without others criticizing me because I don't think/act/look/talk like you!
I just wish some of us could have an opposing belief or opinion without others criticizing me because I don't think/act/look/talk like you!
Just kidding.
Yes, we should be able to discuss riding and riding-related topics without it turning into personal attacks. I think most of those attacks are based on fear. People tend to be afraid of things they don't understand, like actually riding motorcycles, as opposed to merely operating them.
I was a Ford factory-trained technician, and those old Ford light truck ABS systems were super-crude. Adding to that problem, was the fact that the rear drum brakes on the half ton and compact trucks tended to get really grabby. This would confuse the ABS system, which would then shut off the brakes. Today's ABS systems are much more sophisticated. The programmable Race ABS on my motorcycle has RLM (Rear wheel Lift Mitigation), and even works when banked all the way over onto the edge of the tire.
Except that's BS.
In many ways, ABS can teach you how to brake better if you look at the system as something you never want to use. Practice braking hard with ABS and if it activates, you know you went too far. It's a good way of learning the threshold of your brakes. With the added benefit that you won't actually lock up the wheels and drop the bike.
In many ways, ABS can teach you how to brake better if you look at the system as something you never want to use. Practice braking hard with ABS and if it activates, you know you went too far. It's a good way of learning the threshold of your brakes. With the added benefit that you won't actually lock up the wheels and drop the bike.
I can see how that would make it much easier for someone to be able to approach the threshold of maximum braking, without the fear that they'll panic and not let go of the brake lever at that point.
Who knows- it might even save those who tend to panic and stomp the rear brake.
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 09-30-2018 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Multiple posts