Nice test ride on 2018 Road King today
#61
01-29-2019, 04:35 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Yea,I been reading about those problems. U was just generally speaking. Sounds like the clutch handle can be modified to work. That sucks on a bike bike that you have to be careful with the clutch.
Still, if you like the bike, then you have to deal (or fix) the problems one way or the other...
Still, if you like the bike, then you have to deal (or fix) the problems one way or the other...
#62
01-29-2019, 07:15 PM
The trouble I have is you make the point of stating that's how you find it then add if anyone goes against that stance they are showing off?! Do you see how that reads? I still think if your bike is a pig in town it's not tuned properly at all, you support my view with the canned map from dynojet, while a good place to start tuning from it does not mean the bike is tuned to perfection by any means, a professional tune would I think surprise you on just how much better a twin cam can be. My opinion based on my experience, no problem if you disagree.
Cheers.
Cheers.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...l#post17371294
#63
01-29-2019, 09:03 PM
It looks like you have the Harley Auto Tune Module that works with the PRO Street Tuner. Can you tell me what you think of it?
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...l#post17371294
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...l#post17371294
#65
01-30-2019, 12:44 PM
It doesn't work as well as they lead you to believe, I took it off, it works pretty much the same as target tune does with power vision, road tuning with these device's is not giving you what you think, far better to use the narrow bands for road tuning, dyno is a different story but even then a great many good tuners use narrow bands in conjunction with the wide bands.
Would it be accurate to say that the narrow band are used for "fine" tuning and the wide bands are used to create a map that is close enough so that the narrow band can fine tune it?
Doesn't the ecm store corrections that the narrow band sensors make in some table? And if so, do we lose that table when we disconnect the battery and have to start over?
If those corrections are stored in a table, can we view them using the Street Tuner Pro? ( I have a Street Tuner Pro but I do not use it because I have a Powervision installed)
I am looking at my WinPV software now (that PowerVisions software). I am looking at a generic map (not one on my bike). Under "Limits and Switches" there is a switch for "Adaptive Control" here is its description
This switch enables or disables Adaptive control. When in closed-loop the ECM will adapt to engine and environmental changes to maintain a consistent AFR. This works by the ECM first using the VE table to calcuate how much fuel to deliver to hit the targeted AFR value. It then uses the 02 sensors to determine what the AFR actually is. If there is a difference, the ECM makes an adjustment and stores the difference in the Adaptive Fuel Table. The Adaptive Fuel Table will develop a correction profile that is applied to the fuel calculation for each load region. These values are saved in the ECM's memory and will be reloaded each time the bike is started.
The PowerVision software does not allow us to view the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table.
So I can rephrase my question about the Street Tuner Pro, does it allow us to view the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table?
And do we lose the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table when we disconnect the battery? And if that is true, how do we change out a battery and not lose those values?
Last edited by BobRR; 01-30-2019 at 01:09 PM.
#66
01-30-2019, 06:52 PM
Now I am curious. Why do tuners use the narrow bands in conjunction with the wide bands? And why do you say that the narrow bands are far better for road tuning?
The narrow bands are more accurate and respond quicker in their range, as to how the tuner uses them exactly you would have to ask one, Darren or Jason might give you a better idea.
Would it be accurate to say that the narrow band are used for "fine" tuning and the wide bands are used to create a map that is close enough so that the narrow band can fine tune it?
See above.
Doesn't the ecm store corrections that the narrow band sensors make in some table? And if so, do we lose that table when we disconnect the battery and have to start over?
The ECM stores them, long term and short term, short term is discarded over time. I think that's right, someone might correct me if I'm off.
If those corrections are stored in a table, can we view them using the Street Tuner Pro? ( I have a Street Tuner Pro but I do not use it because I have a Powervision installed)
Its not a table I have seen in any software, if you look at logs you can see VE and VE New, I don't know where the table is but I assume the ECM uses that info as part of its correction.
I am looking at my WinPV software now (that PowerVisions software). I am looking at a generic map (not one on my bike). Under "Limits and Switches" there is a switch for "Adaptive Control" here is its description.
When you gather data for a tuning purpose some software manuals say to turn off or zero the adaptive controls to prevent skewed data being used to develop your new VE numbers.
I think I might have answered my own question regarding the ECM storing the corrections.
Yep.
The PowerVision software does not allow us to view the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table.
I don't know that any do exactly.
So I can rephrase my question about the Street Tuner Pro, does it allow us to view the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table?
Not as such.
And do we lose the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table when we disconnect the battery? And if that is true, how do we change out a battery and not lose those values?
The narrow bands are more accurate and respond quicker in their range, as to how the tuner uses them exactly you would have to ask one, Darren or Jason might give you a better idea.
Would it be accurate to say that the narrow band are used for "fine" tuning and the wide bands are used to create a map that is close enough so that the narrow band can fine tune it?
See above.
Doesn't the ecm store corrections that the narrow band sensors make in some table? And if so, do we lose that table when we disconnect the battery and have to start over?
The ECM stores them, long term and short term, short term is discarded over time. I think that's right, someone might correct me if I'm off.
If those corrections are stored in a table, can we view them using the Street Tuner Pro? ( I have a Street Tuner Pro but I do not use it because I have a Powervision installed)
Its not a table I have seen in any software, if you look at logs you can see VE and VE New, I don't know where the table is but I assume the ECM uses that info as part of its correction.
I am looking at my WinPV software now (that PowerVisions software). I am looking at a generic map (not one on my bike). Under "Limits and Switches" there is a switch for "Adaptive Control" here is its description.
When you gather data for a tuning purpose some software manuals say to turn off or zero the adaptive controls to prevent skewed data being used to develop your new VE numbers.
I think I might have answered my own question regarding the ECM storing the corrections.
Yep.
The PowerVision software does not allow us to view the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table.
I don't know that any do exactly.
So I can rephrase my question about the Street Tuner Pro, does it allow us to view the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table?
Not as such.
And do we lose the values in the Adaptive Fuel Table when we disconnect the battery? And if that is true, how do we change out a battery and not lose those values?
I've only really used Mastertune and the SE program to any great depth and am by no means an expert on either, have picked up a bit reading what the tuners and manufacturers have shared on different forums over the years and more than likely have some of it a bit skewed up.
#67
02-02-2019, 02:21 PM
Yea,I been reading about those problems. U was just generally speaking. Sounds like the clutch handle can be modified to work. That sucks on a bike bike that you have to be careful with the clutch.
Still, if you like the bike, then you have to deal (or fix) the problems one way or the other...
Still, if you like the bike, then you have to deal (or fix) the problems one way or the other...
#68
02-02-2019, 02:33 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Maybe the next generation of Harleys will offer Shift Assist "clutchless shifting" like BMW has for several years? When I checked the clutch lever pull on a M8 Road King, it seemed quite heavy. Working a heavy clutch in cool weather will make my old knuckles swell-up and ache for a week. My next new bike will have a light clutch pull or clutchless shifting.
#69
02-02-2019, 04:03 PM
#70
02-02-2019, 04:15 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
