Helmet again........and don't get on MY case.
#102
02-04-2019, 10:16 AM
Tourer
#103
02-04-2019, 10:22 AM
And if it is for liability reasons only, then again, it will help to mitigate the liability.....saving the riders brains from a splat.
#104
02-04-2019, 10:39 AM
Grand HDF Member
That said, I fully agree that it should be a rider's choice, and have no problem at all if you decide not to wear one. As I posted before I have two good friends who NEVER wear a helmet. I wear one 99% of the time. We don't argue about it.
#105
02-04-2019, 11:05 AM
Bingo.
All things being equal, crashing with a helmet on is likely to turn out better than crashing without one.
That's about all you can say with certainty, and even that's not absolute. People are sometimes killed by helmets. The greater torque on the neck can cause internal decapitation, etc. There are people who have died who would have lived if they hadn't been wearing a helmet. There are no absolutes.
Still, there is little doubt that statistically speaking, if you're going to crash, you'll have a better outcome with a helmet.
I just don't think any of that has much to do with motorcycle safety. Forget the unlikely scenario where your helmet kills you, the fallacy is thinking your helmet makes you safe. In truth, helmets have next to nothing to do with motorcycle safety.
Motorcycle safety is about crash avoidance, not crash survivability. Easiest way to avoid a motorcycle crash is to not ride a motorcycle. In that sense, those who say "Riding a motorcycle without a helmet is unsafe and should be illegal" have no answer to those who say "Riding a motorcycle is unsafe and should be illegal". There is no bright line between the two positions.
Motorcycle safety is 99% about your skill, your alertness, your experience level, your situational awareness, your realistic understanding of your capabilities, your ability to anticipate dangers and proactively avoid them, etc, etc, etc.
Its all well and good to wear helmets and ATGATT and all that, but that stuff is where safety ends, not where it starts.
All things being equal, crashing with a helmet on is likely to turn out better than crashing without one.
That's about all you can say with certainty, and even that's not absolute. People are sometimes killed by helmets. The greater torque on the neck can cause internal decapitation, etc. There are people who have died who would have lived if they hadn't been wearing a helmet. There are no absolutes.
Still, there is little doubt that statistically speaking, if you're going to crash, you'll have a better outcome with a helmet.
I just don't think any of that has much to do with motorcycle safety. Forget the unlikely scenario where your helmet kills you, the fallacy is thinking your helmet makes you safe. In truth, helmets have next to nothing to do with motorcycle safety.
Motorcycle safety is about crash avoidance, not crash survivability. Easiest way to avoid a motorcycle crash is to not ride a motorcycle. In that sense, those who say "Riding a motorcycle without a helmet is unsafe and should be illegal" have no answer to those who say "Riding a motorcycle is unsafe and should be illegal". There is no bright line between the two positions.
Motorcycle safety is 99% about your skill, your alertness, your experience level, your situational awareness, your realistic understanding of your capabilities, your ability to anticipate dangers and proactively avoid them, etc, etc, etc.
Its all well and good to wear helmets and ATGATT and all that, but that stuff is where safety ends, not where it starts.
I am proof you can live through an internal decapitation.
The helmet saved my life. Without it I would surely been dead.
Find another reason to not wear a helmet.
#106
02-04-2019, 11:08 AM
Not meaning to get off track from my OP but when you talk about helmet protection, high speed impact with or without a helmet I think is going to look gruesome. i.e.: How much the helmet helps may be at question.
When you have low speed impact, the safety margin of how much a helmet protects you really shines.
I do not know this as a fact, but just thinking about the logic of the numbers of how well the helmet works versus speed.
Then that begs the question, how many high and low impacts are there?
Personally (and I do speak ONLY for myself) no matter what the scenario is, I would like to "hedge the bet" by wearing the noggin protector all the time.
When you have low speed impact, the safety margin of how much a helmet protects you really shines.
I do not know this as a fact, but just thinking about the logic of the numbers of how well the helmet works versus speed.
Then that begs the question, how many high and low impacts are there?
Personally (and I do speak ONLY for myself) no matter what the scenario is, I would like to "hedge the bet" by wearing the noggin protector all the time.
My helmet saved me crashing at interstate speeds. No question in my mind how much it helps on a high speed crash.
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BuzzCap7 (02-04-2019)
#107
02-04-2019, 11:43 AM
Cruiser
There are several reasons that there is more of a need for a helmet these days. I deliver all over the country and I have said for 7 years now that the number of cars and trucks on the road have skyrocketed in the last 20 years and they are dumber and more aggressive than ever. When I was in the rehab hospital for 3 months from my wreck I was outside with a therapist and said to myself that I might have to move to a small town like this if I am ever going to ride all of the time like I used to.Unfortunately because of issues like those mentioned above it is basically like we are playing the video game "frogger" every time we ride in a larger city.
#108
02-04-2019, 12:38 PM
That's a scary statement that can be applied to any number of things, not just helmets. But that's just my perspective living in the USA. Something living in another country might be used to more restrictive laws on things in general.
Last edited by Long lonesome highwayman; 02-04-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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upStomp (02-04-2019)
#109
02-04-2019, 01:03 PM
Road Captain
Living in the UK, our helmet laws are a lot more strict. We wouldn't get away with wearing some of the poor excuses for a helmet that you can get away with in the US.
I get the appeal of riding with no helmet. I rode through the Welsh mountains years ago without one, all back roads, no other traffic and 30mph and under, just taking in the stunning views. But that was a one off. Even if we had a choice not to wear one, most of my riding is at 60-90mph, and at those speeds it's just not worth the risk.
I get the appeal of riding with no helmet. I rode through the Welsh mountains years ago without one, all back roads, no other traffic and 30mph and under, just taking in the stunning views. But that was a one off. Even if we had a choice not to wear one, most of my riding is at 60-90mph, and at those speeds it's just not worth the risk.
#110
02-04-2019, 02:20 PM
Elite HDF Member
I am PRO CHOICE pretty much EVERYTHING! Helmets, pregnancy, firearms, etc... I DETEST the gov or ANYONE telling me what I can and can not do.
Having said that, I just came back from my annual ophthalmologist appt. He does emergency coverage for 2 of the major (large) hospital emergency rooms in Palm Beach & Broward counties.
He asked me if I wear a helmet when I ride. I said "always.". He said good. Then followed up with an "off the cuff" remark (NOT in a condescending way at all) he said matter of factly, that when Florida passed the law riding with a helmet is optional for whatever age it is and above, his calls to the ER for bike related accidents (be it damage he had to fix or as a consult) went up 300%.
This thread is not meant to be another long drawn out discussion about helmets for the bazillionth time. It is just an interesting "fact" to note. His staff figured the numbers on his call outs over the years. A 300% increase for bike related issues.
Huh..........
Having said that, I just came back from my annual ophthalmologist appt. He does emergency coverage for 2 of the major (large) hospital emergency rooms in Palm Beach & Broward counties.
He asked me if I wear a helmet when I ride. I said "always.". He said good. Then followed up with an "off the cuff" remark (NOT in a condescending way at all) he said matter of factly, that when Florida passed the law riding with a helmet is optional for whatever age it is and above, his calls to the ER for bike related accidents (be it damage he had to fix or as a consult) went up 300%.
This thread is not meant to be another long drawn out discussion about helmets for the bazillionth time. It is just an interesting "fact" to note. His staff figured the numbers on his call outs over the years. A 300% increase for bike related issues.
Huh..........
Ask your Doc next time you are in how many people are killed each year by negligent doctors and hospitals. Be sure to wait for an answer. By the way the 300% figure is pure bullshit.