Originally Posted by RiderX

I want share an experience that my friend and I had during a deal to buy a 2019 Ultra Limited. I do not want to state the dealership name as we have had a great relationship until now. I just want to get your feedback as a sanity check. This is a bit of a long story but if you read all the way through, it gets a little crazy.

Let me start by sayin in less than 2 years I have purchased two new bikes and am also responsible for bringing in an additional 6 sales to a dealership in Virginia; all of these were new bike sales. You can probably imagine I know the owner, sales mangers, parts guys, service guys, etc..My buddy was interested in a 2019 Ultra Limited so I stopped in and started talking to the same sales guy I used for all but 2 of the 8 purchases - he was not there when I bought my two bikes. I explained my friend was interested and we immediately initiated the same protocol we always had. I knew where my friend wanted to be on the out the door number, knew what he was looking for his trade, and had a pretty good idea of what he wanted the sales price of the new bike to be. I shared all of this information with the sales guy and then spoke directly with the sales manager. He basically said that he would offer him about $1,000 over retail for his trade but he was not willing to drop the MSRP. I said well that is not even close to what we were looking for and he said that was the best he could. No hard feelings at all, we continued chatting and shortly after making my rounds, I left.

I then called another dealership in Maryland that I purchased another bike from years ago. The ownership there had changed twice since I bought my bike there and none of the same staff were there - in other words, I had no relationship with anyone there at all. I called and spoke to the Sales Manager and we started talking numbers over the phone. He was pretty close to what we wanted and I said I would give it some thought.

A couple of days later I stopped in the Virginia dealership to schedule a service appointment for my bike and the Sales Manager called me over to talk about the deal again. He quickly looked at the numbers again and basically came to the same conclusion. He did say that maybe he put a few hundred more dollars into the trade if he saw the bike but that's the best he could do. I told him it would not be worth it for my friend to bring in his bike if that is all he could do because we were still too far apart. I told him that we were working on another deal for the exact same bike and even gave him the name of the dealership. He asked me to give him a call before my buddy pulls the trigger and he would look it over one last time. I told him I would absolutely give him a call before making a move. One thing to keep in mind is that it is winter here in Virginia and we were now approaching the last few days of January - sales were very slow according to my sales guy and other people in the dealership that I know.

I had a few conversations with my buddy about what the dealership in Maryland was offering and although we were close, he still wanted the out the door number to be lower. I called the Sales Manager at the Maryland dealership and he basically met the out the door price. I told him I would give it some consideration and get back to him. He was eager to make the sale for the same reason as the dealership in Virginia - cold weather and slumping sales this time of year.

I contacted my sales guy at the Virginia dealership again because I promised him I would before we pulled the trigger on anything. Here is where it starts to get crazy. I give him the out the door number from the other dealership and he asks me to hang on while he grabs the Sales Manager. He gets back on the phone and tells me that he cannot discuss the deal with me because I am not the one buying the bike. I said, "What? We have been talking about this deal for two weeks. Why can't you discuss it with me?" He says hang on. Then the owner, with whom I also have a good relationship, gets on the phone. He immediately starts out by saying, "Why are you being a customer on me? We can't discuss this deal with you, we need your buddy in here and we need to see the bike." I told him, "Your Sales Manager said he couldn't even get close to what we were asking for and the only reason I am calling is because I promised him I would before we made a move." "I am here to sell motorcycles but I can't discuss this deal with you - I could get sued. You know I will take care of him. Just get him in here with the bike and let's get it done. I'll even get the bike picked up for him if he wants.", he said. This is total BS since his own Sales Manager and the sales guy had been talking directly to me about this deal for the last two weeks. This is also how I have always handled the previous bikes sales that I brought in. Anyway... So, I called my buddy told him they were coming to pick up the bike he was trading in. He was home and it was not a problem and he told me he could meet me at the dealership in he late afternoon.

They pick up his bike and we both roll into the dealership around 4:00. It was barely below freezing but my buddy wanted to take a short test ride. He and the sales guy get it all together and they go for a test ride. As soon as they roll out the owner freaks out on me. He said, "Why are you price matching me against a different dealership? That's not cool.", I told him, "Because your Sales Manager said the deal was too rich for his blood and he couldn't even get close to what we were asking.". The Sales Manager chimes in and says, "I did tell you that. There is not enough meat left on the bone to make that deal. In fact, I cannot even honor the trade in value that I told you because the bike isn't what you said it is. You said it was an Ultra Classic and it is an Electra Glide." Of course this was completely not true. He was trying to cover his *** because of how much he offered over retail for my buddy's bike when the owner wasn't there. At this point I am starting to get a little heated because he is basically calling me a liar. So then the owner asks me the numbers on the deal we had in place at the Maryland dealership. I told him the numbers and he didn't believe me. He said, "If I call over there and talk to the "Bob" he is going to tell me these are the numbers he gave you? Because we're good friends." This made me even more agitated because now the owner, someone I have a good relationship with and was responsible for eight of his bike sales in the last two years, is calling me a liar. I said, "Please call him, I would love for you to." So he whips out his phone and for the next five minutes fiddles around but never actually calls anyone. He said he was have some technical issues with his cell phone. Of course he never picks up one of the 4 desk phones at the sales tower to call over there. This makes me realize that he knows who the Sales Manager is at the Maryland dealership but they are not "good friends". He then says, he'll do the deal but then launches into a lecture. He said, "Don't take this the wrong way because I do appreciate the business you bring in but we don't make a lot of many on the deals we do for you because you beat us up pretty badly on every deal. I know these guys are your friends but where's your loyalty man?" I said, "Well if the business I bring in is hurting your bottom line, then it sounds to me like you are telling me not to bring in any more business." He said, "No, I started out by telling you not to take it the wrong way. I am going to make the deal. Like I said, I am here to sell bikes." I didn't think about it at the time but what I should have mentioned is all the money they make on not just the bike sale, but parts sales, service business, maintenance business, etc.. that all of these sales generate. This was a bit of a slap in the face to me. He was making me feel bad for bringing it bik sales. "I don't want you to not make a deal you aren't comfortable with. No hard feelings if you don't want to do it. We can roll out and do the deal at the other dealership.", I said. He assured me he wanted to do the deal but was still a bit snarky.

My buddy gets back he is happy with the deal and decides he does want to proceed. He starts all of the required paperwork, credit app, insurance, etc.. We get into the finance office and about five minutes into her speech about extended warranties and paint protection, she starts talking about the interest rate. My buddy qualifies for tier 1, his credit score is around 725. I told the Sales Manager two weeks ago he would qualify for tier 1 and he assured me he would be able to get him a 3.99% interest rate. I tell the finance person, that not only is this not what I was told but I was responsible for eight bike sales in the last two years, and some of those guys had a much lower credit score but still qualified for a better rate. She shot me a look and said, "Really? Eight bike sales?", in a very rude manner. So now this is the third time I have been called a liar. Apparently, while my buddy was doing the insurance, credit app, etc.., earlier, I had stepped away for a bit. Come to find out, before getting to the finance office, no one told him what his interest rate would be and he didn't think to ask. He assumed it was 3.9% because that is the information I passed along to him. So he questioned that and the finance person calls the Sales Manager to the office. As soon as he walks in, she says, "They are questioning the interest rate. He said all his buddies got a better rate on the other eight bike sales he brought in." She looks at him as if she is waiting for him to call BS. He just nods his head and says, "Yeah, so what is the question?". He basically says his credit score doesn't qualify for tier 1. Now, having been involved with so many purchases, I know this is BS. With his credit score, some bank would approve him for way under 5.5%. I also know that dealerships make up for losses in a deal by bumping up the interest rate. In other words, if you are actually approved for 3.9 they will tell you 5.5 to make some money back on the deal. The Sales Manager leaves and I tell my buddy in front of the finance person that they are probably playing a little game with the interest rate.

At that same time, I get a text from the Sales Manager from Maryland and he asks if we signed the paperwork yet. The Maryland dealership is about to close but they want one more sale on the books to close out January. While the finance person is filling out her paperwork I am showing him the text from the other dealership. My buddy makes a comment like, "wow, they really want my business." He then asks the finance person to see if the Sales Manager would knock $500 off the deal since the interest rate is now what we were told. When she comes back she tells us that the owner wants to talk to us but he had already left. So he calls her on her cell phone and she puts him on speaker. He starts yelling, "What's going on guys? Am I to understand that you are still trying work out another deal with the other dealership? Now you're trying renegotiate a deal that you already shook on?" He doesn't even give either of us a chance to respond and says, "This is not how I do business, I don't do business with people who are like that." He then says to the finance person, "Shred the paperwork. Tear it up. Tell "Bob" to push his bike onto the parking lot because I am not delivering it to his house.". He means my buddy's current bike. Keep in mind is now completely dark outside and the temp is hovering somewhere around 20. My buddy says, "This is bullshit, you were the guys who wanted my bike here. You picked it up you should return it." The owner still insisted that finance tear up the paperwork and that his bike be left on the lot and then hangs up. He gave us no chance to explain anything about why he was asking for $500 off or what the text from the other dealership was about.

The finance person is in shock and had no clue what to do. We didn't give her a chance to decide and we got up and headed for the door ranting a little bit about the owner's behavior. The Sales Manager stood there for a few minutes not saying much. The sales guy was upset considering he was going to lose a sale that he had so much effort into. Finally the Sales Manager told him that he would not put his bike on the lot and that he could pick it up the next day. A couple of more minutes go by as we are all in disbelief and the Sales Manager finally says, "You could still sign the deal." We repeated the owner's explicit instructions to finance to rip up the contract. The Sales Manager tells us, "Well, he is not here and I am so if you want to still sign the deal we can do it." Of course the sales guy is trying to persuade him and asking him not to allow the owner's poor behavior to reflect on him. Finally a couple of more minutes go by and my buddy agrees to complete the deal.

Has anyone else been through anything like this?

Originally Posted by RiderX

I am not sure if dealers ready through this thread or not, but the dealer in Virginia will clearly know who I am if he or any of his staff does.

The owner put me in a tough spot. I really like everybody there, except the Sales Manager, and enjoy stopping in from time to time just to chat a bit. The service department is great and they always take care of me. I know if I bring this post to his attention, and I am really torn about the decision, it will cause problems. At the very least, I would be nervous taking my bike in for work and having him interfere or just making it awkward in some way. Or, he will simply ban me from the dealership and I will lose some great relationships that I have cultivated over the years and lose a certain level of "special care". This is not the closest dealership to me but to this point is the one I have most enjoyed. I was even thinking of joining their HOG chapter.

At the same time, the more I think about this past experienced, the more pissed I get. It occurred to me after making the original post, the owner did not even thank me for bringing in the sale or shake my hand at any point before it got crazy. He just left the dealership and went home knowing that the sale was going to be finalized without a word of thanks.

To be fair, my buddy did go back yesterday to order some parts for his bike, which is also more business that I helped the dealership generate, and the Sales Manager apologized to my buddy and said the owner wants to apologize. However, I have not heard from either one of them and they definitely have my number.

If I do decide to show him this post, I am also going to call H-D and let them know about my experience. I told my buddy that it is up to him, but he could also call H-D to share his thoughts on the experience. I told him he has the option of giving them poor marks on the survey he will soon get.

Man, I am torn!