BAD Dealers and Experiences
#2671
02-10-2019, 03:23 PM
If I am understanding what you are saying you are probably better off. Less tax and DMV fees to be paid. It my last couple of deals I did on new vehicles, cages, they ran everything off the MSRP so we got hit hard on registration fees and sales tax. I think here they are required to do it that way so Taxifornia can hose ya. However we bought the vehicles in Nevada but they have to abide by Calif regulations. And registration here is based on value and they depreciate everything from the "sales price" so it is a re-occuring hit. Grubbing every last dollar out of us is killing me. Our moonbeam jr governor is now pushing to put a fee on water. He is calling it a fee because he knows he can't get the votes for a tax. It is getting old.
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The reason this is important is because it was the higher trade-in value for my bike that induced me into thinking about trading in my old bike, which I was completely happy with. However, the 100% NADA trade-in value offer the Dealership was advertising for my old bike was so high I had to seriously consider trading it in. But it turns out I was negotiating against an inflated price for the new bike which of course I did not find out about until it was time to sign the papers.
Basically, I did not discover the true price of the bike and the true trade-in value until the business manager put the final papers in front of me to sign.
I just want to know if it is legal, or if , the way I described, could it be considered a deceptive trade practice?
Last edited by BobRR; 02-10-2019 at 03:33 PM.
#2672
02-10-2019, 03:34 PM
When negotiating the price of a new motorcycle, is it legal for the salesman and the GM to use two different sets of numbers? In other words, the numbers that the salesman is telling you is the price of the bike and the amount of trade-in you are going to get for your bike, turn out to be completely different from the numbers that end up on the paper work when you go to sign the papers? But the differences remain the same? Meaning the ultimate deal you reach with the salesman and you agree to was XXX dollars and the amount that is shown on the final paper work that you owe is also XXX, but the price of the bike and the trade-in you receive for the bike are completely different from what you thought they were when you were negotiating with the salesperson.
The way this mechanism was used was to make me think I was getting a much higher trade-in for my bike during negotiations, but to find out that the numbers that were on the paper work were for a much lower price of the bike and a correspondingly much lower price for the trade-in. This happened during a time when the Dealership was advertising 100% NADA value for your trade-in. It was quite a slick move.
It is really a slick move because the salesman is not present when you are in the little room with the business manager and the final papers are placed in front of you. So the salesman may not even know that the numbers on the paper work are different from the numbers he has been carting back and forth to you from the sales managers.
Is that legal?
The way this mechanism was used was to make me think I was getting a much higher trade-in for my bike during negotiations, but to find out that the numbers that were on the paper work were for a much lower price of the bike and a correspondingly much lower price for the trade-in. This happened during a time when the Dealership was advertising 100% NADA value for your trade-in. It was quite a slick move.
It is really a slick move because the salesman is not present when you are in the little room with the business manager and the final papers are placed in front of you. So the salesman may not even know that the numbers on the paper work are different from the numbers he has been carting back and forth to you from the sales managers.
Is that legal?
There's only one thing that is illegal in the process of doing the dance that we all do in most dealerships, and that is if the dealership changes the numbers on the contract after you signed it.
That's pretty much it. It doesn't matter who said what when, all that matters is that number in the bottom right hand corner of the purchase contract.
#2673
02-10-2019, 03:38 PM
Are you asking if playing games is legal, or are you asking if lying is legal?
There's only one thing that is illegal in the process of doing the dance that we all do in most dealerships, and that is if the dealership changes the numbers on the contract after you signed it.
That's pretty much it. It doesn't matter who said what when, all that matters is that number in the bottom right hand corner of the purchase contract.
There's only one thing that is illegal in the process of doing the dance that we all do in most dealerships, and that is if the dealership changes the numbers on the contract after you signed it.
That's pretty much it. It doesn't matter who said what when, all that matters is that number in the bottom right hand corner of the purchase contract.
A deceptive trade practice is activity by an individual or business that is meant to mislead or lure the public into purchasing a product or service. False advertising and odometer tampering are two of the most blatant examples of commercial fraud.
Section 5: Unfair or Deceptive Acts or Practices. Background. Section 5(a) of the Federal Trade Commission Act (FTC Act) (15 USC §45) prohibits “unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce.” This prohibition applies to all persons engaged in commerce, including banks.
What Is The "Deceptive Trade Practices Act"
The Texas Deceptive Trade Practices
-
Consumer Protection Act ("DTPA") was enacted on May
21, 1973. The full text can be found starting at section 17.41
of the Texas Business and Commerce Code. The primary purpose of the DTPA is to protect consumers against false,
misleading, and deceptive business and insurance practices, unconscionable actions, and breaches of warranty. It does so by prohibiting certain
acts and practices that tend to deceive and mislead consumers.
The DTPA provides for both public enforcement and private remedies. Public enforcement is
done by the Texas Attorney General, who can seek a court order prohibiting further deceptive
practices. A private citizen may seek redress for damages caused by certain specific acts and
practices listed in the DTPA. Because the DTPA is very broad and is constantly being interpreted by the courts, it is
impossible to explain its complete meaning and impact in this short handbook. If you believe
that you are the victim of a deceptive trade practice, please consult an attorney.
The Texas Deceptive Trade Practices
-
Consumer Protection Act ("DTPA") was enacted on May
21, 1973. The full text can be found starting at section 17.41
of the Texas Business and Commerce Code. The primary purpose of the DTPA is to protect consumers against false,
misleading, and deceptive business and insurance practices, unconscionable actions, and breaches of warranty. It does so by prohibiting certain
acts and practices that tend to deceive and mislead consumers.
The DTPA provides for both public enforcement and private remedies. Public enforcement is
done by the Texas Attorney General, who can seek a court order prohibiting further deceptive
practices. A private citizen may seek redress for damages caused by certain specific acts and
practices listed in the DTPA. Because the DTPA is very broad and is constantly being interpreted by the courts, it is
impossible to explain its complete meaning and impact in this short handbook. If you believe
that you are the victim of a deceptive trade practice, please consult an attorney.
Last edited by BobRR; 02-10-2019 at 03:47 PM.
#2674
02-10-2019, 03:57 PM
Road Master
I always sell my old vehicle myself to realize a better price. Then go to the dealer. My last effort, I paid 26k OTD for a 2018 SGS in California. Maybe I could have done better, I don't know. Did this deal over the phone. They mailed paperwork, I mailed a down payment check back, and picked up the bike a couple of weeks later. I have no time or desire to play games.
Last edited by RichM752; 02-10-2019 at 03:58 PM.
#2676
02-10-2019, 04:02 PM
It is not that easy. The difference that was negotiated was the same. The price for the bike and the trade-in value was completely different.
#2677
02-10-2019, 04:03 PM
What usually falls under this umbrella are shady practices such as "bait and switch" where the dealership advertises vehicles at a certain price when it does not have those vehicles available, or "going out of business" sales when the store is still there six months later, and many more similar situations.
That's not the same as two employees telling a prospective customer two different things.
#2678
02-10-2019, 04:05 PM
#2679
02-10-2019, 04:09 PM
Oh, absolutely!
What usually falls under this umbrella are shady practices such as "bait and switch" where the dealership advertises vehicles at a certain price when it does not have those vehicles available, or "going out of business" sales when the store is still there six months later, and many more similar situations.
That's not the same as two employees telling a prospective customer two different things.
What usually falls under this umbrella are shady practices such as "bait and switch" where the dealership advertises vehicles at a certain price when it does not have those vehicles available, or "going out of business" sales when the store is still there six months later, and many more similar situations.
That's not the same as two employees telling a prospective customer two different things.
For instance, if I knew the true price for the new bike and the true trade-in value I was to receive, I probably would not have traded in my bike and may have just tried to buy the bike outright.
After you do all that negotiating and put you in that little room, it is hard to back out. I am sure they know that.
The bottom line is this, what ever numbers you negotiate, those are the numbers that must end up on the bill of sale, otherwise, it is deceptive. And that should not just be the bottom line number, particularly when the advertisement was for 100% trade-in value.
I strongly suspect that if I did not say I was going to trade in my bike, I would have been presented with a completely different set of numbers durning the negotiation phase.
Last edited by BobRR; 02-10-2019 at 04:20 PM.
#2680
02-10-2019, 04:10 PM
HOWEVER, depending on how your state charges sales tax on vehicle sales, that could indeed make a difference.