BAD Dealers and Experiences
#2681
02-10-2019, 04:14 PM
Road Master
#2682
02-10-2019, 04:24 PM
I have a copy of what I signed. I also have a copy of the numbers that the salesman would hand to me on a little sheet of paper which indicated the price of the bike I THOUGHT I was negotiating.
#2683
02-10-2019, 04:24 PM
Grand HDF Member
A dealership near me is offering 110% NADA value on trade in's. I'm pretty sure the bottom line (before tax) will be the same if they were giving 110% or 75% on trade in value. In my state/county, every $200 in trade in value keeps $11 tax in my pocket (5.5%). I'll take the higher trade in value, regardless of how they arrive at the same bottom line (before tax).
#2684
02-10-2019, 04:25 PM
Generally, that doesn't matter, because that's part of the dance. For example, if the price is $30k and they give you $10k for your trade, that's $20k net. Or, they give you $15k for your trade and charge you MSRP of $35k, it's still the same to you.
HOWEVER, depending on how your state charges sales tax on vehicle sales, that could indeed make a difference.
HOWEVER, depending on how your state charges sales tax on vehicle sales, that could indeed make a difference.
To me it was deceptive and I think many people would think it is deceptive.
Again, here is the important part, it is quite possible that the salesman would not even realize this was occurring. The salesman thought the price was the price the salesmanager was giving him. The salesman was not present when the paper work was presented to be signed. Again, not until the paper work was signed, was the true price of the bike and the true tradein value made known.
So the big question is, why did the Dealership do that? Why didn't the Dealership put down the actual numbers that were negotiated on the final paper work? Why did they record the trade-in value at about $3000 dollars less that what was negotiated? Why did they do that? The price of the new bike was also about $3000 less than the negotiated price. So why did they need to change the numbers?
I think the answer is, if they put down the trade-in value for my bike at the near 100% trade-in number, it would screw up their books.
Last edited by BobRR; 02-10-2019 at 04:33 PM.
#2685
02-10-2019, 04:40 PM
Anyway, becarefull.
If your Dealership ever offers a promotion where they offer to give you 100% NADA trade-in value for your bike, watch out for this practice!
It is too late to help me, but maybe I can help someone else.
They will make this kind of an offer near the end of the season, right before the new bikes arrive on the showroom floor. They are really just marking down their inventory and trying to induce you to trade in your old bike on a new bike.
If ever AND OF the numbers on the paper work are different from what you were negotiating with your salesman. Don't sign it.
But you did learn something...now you know the true price of the motorcycle. They kept that hidden during the entire negotiating process.
If your Dealership ever offers a promotion where they offer to give you 100% NADA trade-in value for your bike, watch out for this practice!
It is too late to help me, but maybe I can help someone else.
They will make this kind of an offer near the end of the season, right before the new bikes arrive on the showroom floor. They are really just marking down their inventory and trying to induce you to trade in your old bike on a new bike.
If ever AND OF the numbers on the paper work are different from what you were negotiating with your salesman. Don't sign it.
But you did learn something...now you know the true price of the motorcycle. They kept that hidden during the entire negotiating process.
Last edited by BobRR; 02-10-2019 at 05:31 PM.
#2686
02-10-2019, 04:47 PM
I am in a HOG group. And HOG means "Harley Owners Group". I am tying my damndest to get the group to come together to demand that Harley Dealerships not engage in those kinds of deceptive practices. If all the members of all the HOG groups would band together, we could fix the "dance" problem. HOG groups do not have to be at the beck and call of the Dealerships. HOG groups have a lot of latent power for good if they would choose to wield it.
Last edited by BobRR; 02-10-2019 at 04:55 PM.
#2688
02-10-2019, 06:05 PM
A dealership near me is offering 110% NADA value on trade in's. I'm pretty sure the bottom line (before tax) will be the same if they were giving 110% or 75% on trade in value. In my state/county, every $200 in trade in value keeps $11 tax in my pocket (5.5%). I'll take the higher trade in value, regardless of how they arrive at the same bottom line (before tax).
If they are offering 110 NADA trade-in value then I am pretty sure that is against the DSRP. (Dealers suggested retail price). You are going to find that the DSRP they tell you is pretty high, but they will give you the 110 NADA trade-in value against that high DSRP. The thing to watch for is what is the actual price of the bike on the bill of sale that you sign. In my case it was not the DSRP that I had been negotiating around.
I can almost guarantee you that DSRP is going to be at least MSRP and probably higher. That is how they can say they pay you 110 NADA Trade-in for your old bike. They jack up the DSRP and you negotiate around the DSRP, but the DSRP does not end up on the bill of sale. That is the two different sets of numbers I was talking about
(I am remembering now, when I was negotiating with the salesperson, he always said that he was giving me the DSRP. I asked what that was, he said DSRP was the Dealer Suggested Retail Price) So they will give you 110 NADA Trade in on the DSRP but the DSRP will not be the number that gets recorded on the bill of sale ( if it happens the way it happened to me)
Last edited by BobRR; 02-10-2019 at 06:56 PM.
#2689
02-11-2019, 07:51 AM
Road Captain
When negotiating the price of a new motorcycle, is it legal for the salesman and the GM to use two different sets of numbers? In other words, the numbers that the salesman is telling you is the price of the bike and the amount of trade-in you are going to get for your bike, turn out to be completely different from the numbers that end up on the paper work when you go to sign the papers? But the differences remain the same? Meaning the ultimate deal you reach with the salesman and you agree to was XXX dollars and the amount that is shown on the final paper work that you owe is also XXX, but the price of the bike and the trade-in you receive for the bike are completely different from what you thought they were when you were negotiating with the salesperson.
The way this mechanism was used was to make me think I was getting a much higher trade-in for my bike during negotiations, but to find out that the numbers that were on the paper work were for a much lower price of the bike and a correspondingly much lower price for the trade-in. This happened during a time when the Dealership was advertising 100% NADA value for your trade-in. It was quite a slick move.
It is really a slick move because the salesman is not present when you are in the little room with the business manager and the final papers are placed in front of you. So the salesman may not even know that the numbers on the paper work are different from the numbers he has been carting back and forth to you from the sales managers.
Is that legal?
The way this mechanism was used was to make me think I was getting a much higher trade-in for my bike during negotiations, but to find out that the numbers that were on the paper work were for a much lower price of the bike and a correspondingly much lower price for the trade-in. This happened during a time when the Dealership was advertising 100% NADA value for your trade-in. It was quite a slick move.
It is really a slick move because the salesman is not present when you are in the little room with the business manager and the final papers are placed in front of you. So the salesman may not even know that the numbers on the paper work are different from the numbers he has been carting back and forth to you from the sales managers.
Is that legal?
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