I've just read the American Iron story on the Softail Standard in their November 2006 issue. Page 120 shows the 96" dynoing out at 60.93 hp and 78.91 lbs Torque. With some research, a stock 88" TC chassis rear wheel chassis dyno does about the same (http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist_twin_cam.htm).

The author indicates that he feels the 96 motor has more down low pull and the Torque graph coming up to 70lb ft by 1750 RPM (roughly) confirms this. He also thinks the power is probably limited by the factory exhaust.

My issue is, Harley has told people with the new O2 sensor exhaust, you use our exhaust or you void your warrantee. So if you assume these exhausts, with the O2 sensor, are going to be more conservative than a set of full on performance V&H or other quality pipe you could put on a TC88, am I gonna get more from a mildly modded 88" than a 96"?

If you look at the performance figures on the site I gave above, a stock TC88 you can get 60-64 hp and 78lb ft. With a stage 1 and pipes you get roughly 72 hp and 88lb ft. Are you gonna get that out of a "Stage 1" on the 96? And if you look at the web site, most of these numbers were captured on early TC88's. They've improved the motor since then.

My thinking is that the 96" give you more low end power than the 88" when stock. With Stage 1 mods, because you can do more with a well tuned aftermarket exhaust, you may be neck and neck at that level 88 to 96. The 96" may give you more low end but the 88" may give you more power (again, more radical exhaust than Harley can or will provide for the 2007 with O2 sensor 96").

Of course, if you go into the motor and do cams, heads, make it a 103 or a 110, you're going to get more power. But if you started with an 88, which you can buy for less or a 96, which you'd have to buy at a premium, if you spent the money you'd saved on the purchase of the 88, couldn't you end up at about the same place?

Thoughts? It all confirms my feelings that those of us with the 88 should not be jealous and go ride... I'm out, gotta meet the boys. See ya..

 

I read the same AI article. This was my impression of what is going on with the new 96". The factory exhaust and intake system for '07 is similar in flow numbers to the 88" equipment. I know the factory claims to have tweaked the exhaust to improve exhaust note. This is not relevant to me. The '07's I have heard sound the same as the '06 and earlier exhaust.

I think the biggest reason the '07's are not showing huge dyno improvements is because of the state of tune. Retarded timing and lean fuel mixtures from the factory are basically choking these motors down. The aftermarket can take care of this. Power Commander is already out with 2007 product. D&D is already shipping the Fat Cat with dual O2 sensor bungs. I would be willing to bet a properly tuned 2007 with PCIII and Fat Cats will be a much harder running bike than the same equipment on an 88".

Apples to apples, the larger engine will make more power. Personally I have not been told by any dealer replacing the factory exhaust will void the warranty.

 

You don't need to be told by your dealer. Just read your warranty. It's in there. Yes, before someone spits it out....I know about the Magnusson-Moss Act....Anybody know anyone who has ever used the Act in a court case against a dealer? I don't...If you do any parts "unauthorized" parts swapping and that part can be linked to the failed component that you are making a warranty claim on, you claim may be denied. Fortunately, most dealers are hard asses about trying to enforce this....But, I'll bet if you swap exhausts, then roll in with a melted piston or similar you will be out of luck.

 

I'd swap them back!

 

I don't know what 07's your talking about but as someone who has owned two 06 88's and brought them home stock-there is no comparison to the sound of my wife's new 07 deluxe.
In fact, the 07 deluxe sounded good enough right off the floor that neither of us has been very motivated to do anything with the stock exhaust. Conversely, both my new 06 88's sounded like sewing machines as stock and I could harldly wait to get em home to modify. Though this has nothing to do with the subject addressed by this thread-I couldnt help bvut chime in when I read that you saw no difference betweeen the sound of the 06's vs. 07's. That all said I am glad I have the 06 88".

 

Several people have thought mine was aftermarket. 07 definately has more music than 06.

 

All stock pipes belong in the dumpster, simple as that!
If the 06' sounds like a sewing machine, the 07' sounds like a sewing machine with a skinnier needle.
Both are pathetic excuses for a true Harley sound.

 

Only part it could void is specific engine problems. If the tranny blows up, not the fault of pipes. If the FI goes out or electrical, not possible for them to void that either. If you want pipes, get pipes. And a tune.

 

Even if you gain a little power with the new engine. It is bigger so it should weigh more. Perhaps making the bike slower.

what my dealer said at the open house was currently no after-market exhausts would work with 07's because they didn't have 02 sensors in them. But the after marketers were working on them and they should be out shortly.

 

Buddy has an 88" Road Kill, and his wife a 96" Deluxe. At a 60 mph roll-on, she simply walked away from him without a sweat. The torque seems to be right where it needs to be on the 96".