HD ban on internet sales halted
#21
12-03-2011, 02:40 AM
Was at my dealer yesterday and they were listing tons of stuff on eBay because they have to shut the eBay store down on dec 31. They are frustrated with the decision too since they are in a small town and have bigger dealers surrounding them which doesn't leave them much territory. They can now only sell to Indy shops in there territory too. There are two dealerships closer to me and I choose this one because of service and price. Hope moco doesn't tell me I can't do this anymore. Idiots
#23
12-03-2011, 09:14 AM
Yeah, but it ends up being price fixing which violates anti-trust laws....works in Canada as they have 1 dealer who controls everything....so how would you like to get stabbed for another 25% because if they could the MoCo would smile and charge you as much as possible and tell you "tough crap".
The territory protection is a simple agreement when you buy a franchise. For example, Subway will say...okay, we won't allow another Subway franchise to open or be sold within 5 square miles of your location. So, you can be comfortable that you won't have to compete with another Subway across the street....BUT...you will have to compete against Quiznos, Schlotzsky's, etc....
Something similar to this thread topic would be...say, you don't offer delivery from your Subway...but the next Subway over offers free delivery and 20% lower prices, within a 10 square mile range of their location. Now, you do have another Subway competing with you and you complain to Corporate....and Corporate says "No deliveries or discounts outside your 5 square mile territory"......
#24
12-03-2011, 10:31 AM
Elite HDF Member
When you have a large company and offer franchises, you have to (or should) offer some sort of territory protection for your franchises. For example, why would I spend the money to open a Subway sammy shop if Subway will allow another dude to open one down the street and compete with me? (yeah, I know it happened)
The MoCo is just (I'm sure) reacting to dealerships who are probably complaining that other dealers are using their internet sales to take business from their territory. Yes, I know about competition being healthy, and the internet is here to stay, and price your stuff right to begin with, blah blah blah...all I'm saying is that the MoCo is most likely being inundated with complaints from it's dealers about these internet sales cutting into their bottom line....and since we're a franchise we have territory rights...please do something about it.
It all smacks of internal squabbling to me...the MoCo and it's dealers....and the MoCo makes a stupid attempt to do something about it....and one of the big internet dealers says no......
Boils down to dealers unwilling to cut a discount or work with customers. Then the customer goes online and orders from another dealer who IS willing to cut a discount. So, the first dealer gets all butthurt and starts crying to the MoCo about the internet dealer invading their territory.
Well too bad dealer #1....get with the current trend and stop being a phallus....offer some discounts, compete....or die.
The MoCo is just (I'm sure) reacting to dealerships who are probably complaining that other dealers are using their internet sales to take business from their territory. Yes, I know about competition being healthy, and the internet is here to stay, and price your stuff right to begin with, blah blah blah...all I'm saying is that the MoCo is most likely being inundated with complaints from it's dealers about these internet sales cutting into their bottom line....and since we're a franchise we have territory rights...please do something about it.
It all smacks of internal squabbling to me...the MoCo and it's dealers....and the MoCo makes a stupid attempt to do something about it....and one of the big internet dealers says no......
Boils down to dealers unwilling to cut a discount or work with customers. Then the customer goes online and orders from another dealer who IS willing to cut a discount. So, the first dealer gets all butthurt and starts crying to the MoCo about the internet dealer invading their territory.
Well too bad dealer #1....get with the current trend and stop being a phallus....offer some discounts, compete....or die.
It means that I don't buy online from my dealer's local competitors such as Zanotti, for example, because for me HD of Chicago or LakeShore are cheaper.
Now, what I do, living in PA, 000s of others living in other states do the same. If my local dealer is too f*cking stupid or greedy to attract out of state buyers with good prices, it's his problem. A franchise agreement is not a guarantee to make money if you don't have a clue how to attract customers and retain them.
If HD sticks to its dictatorial policy and blocks me from buying online from my preferred HD merchants, I'll buy aftermarket products, no problem.
Last edited by frenchbiker; 12-03-2011 at 10:35 AM.
#25
12-03-2011, 10:34 AM
Stellar HDF Member
To Joe Diver's points; I would imagine that Harley knows very well that they are going to loose this law suit in the courts. But they pursue it anyway . . . not because they think they will win (they know they're going to loose before they file the first papers in this suit, they aren't the first company to try this) . . . it's to keep the 90%+ of their franchises satisfied that Harley is "Doing something about" those mean ol' nasty "Other Dealers" who are "prostituting the Brand" by discounting parts sales over the internet.
To the 90%+ Harley can say; "Gee I really wish I could help you but those damn liberal judges won't let us. We did our best, and even took it to court. What else could we possibly do?" Then at the same time; to the public at large, it's a nudge-nudge, wink-wink "Please don't buy over the internet . . . but golly gee; before you buy someone else's motorcycle, or motorcycle parts, please consider that there are Harley Dealers who will discount parts sales over the internet.
To the 90%+ Harley can say; "Gee I really wish I could help you but those damn liberal judges won't let us. We did our best, and even took it to court. What else could we possibly do?" Then at the same time; to the public at large, it's a nudge-nudge, wink-wink "Please don't buy over the internet . . . but golly gee; before you buy someone else's motorcycle, or motorcycle parts, please consider that there are Harley Dealers who will discount parts sales over the internet.
#26
12-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Gotta agree, Bluehighways....probably all smoke and mirrors. The older I get, the more I'm inclined to "watch the other hand" in situations like this. My local dealers would do well to put their employees who stand around most of the day shooting the sh*t to work driving Internet sales and packing boxes for shipment or a local parts pick-up from internet orders. Some give a discount for service scheduled online, why not parts orders?
#27
12-03-2011, 07:32 PM
Tourer
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mesa arizona
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The days of going to your local dealer to get a part are slowly going to the internet where the consumer has multiple choices. This will result in the loss of 50% of dealerships because having 10 of them in a metro area is no longer necessary. Consumers will always chase the lowest price just like manufacturers will always chase the lowest labor price. Simple economics.
The MoCo is always at least 10 years behind any technological development. One example: My 1974 Yamaha RD350 had a 6 speed transmission. Harley came up with one in the Dyna line in 2006.
If the MoCo was smart they would be developing a free iphone app for buying parts and scheduling service and finding a dealer while traveling. But the dumb asses will wait for someone else to do it first.
The MoCo is always at least 10 years behind any technological development. One example: My 1974 Yamaha RD350 had a 6 speed transmission. Harley came up with one in the Dyna line in 2006.
If the MoCo was smart they would be developing a free iphone app for buying parts and scheduling service and finding a dealer while traveling. But the dumb asses will wait for someone else to do it first.
I already have a app on my phone for finding a dealer. It's called v twin mobile reference
#29
12-03-2011, 09:21 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#30
12-04-2011, 06:14 AM
A large part of HD introducing this policy was to protect the European and other Non US dealers as pricing outside of the US ranges from a little more pricey to outright azz raping of your wallet.
But it's a problem the MOCO made for themselves by cranking up prices to beyond ridiculous levels in the first place, resulting in many non US riders ordering via the web from US dealers and resellers. On a typical purchase for any part, even after paying exorbitant shipping rates, I still save upwards of 40% on the purchase price here. Pricing to what the market can bear is one thing, flat out ripping off is the norm though, and unfortunately the MOCOs believe the myth that everyone in EU/Aussie and Japan in particular is swimming in cash, and it just aint so.
If i could get a "fair" price at my dealer i'd happily support the dealer and spend my cash there, but I cant, so I dont.
The solution should be simple, rein in the prices, get back the local customer base, turn over volume increases, net revenue stays stable or possibly even increases.
Unfortunately greed is the driving motivator here so they go for the "block the US dealers from international sales and continue to Azz Rape everyone else solution" instead....
But it's a problem the MOCO made for themselves by cranking up prices to beyond ridiculous levels in the first place, resulting in many non US riders ordering via the web from US dealers and resellers. On a typical purchase for any part, even after paying exorbitant shipping rates, I still save upwards of 40% on the purchase price here. Pricing to what the market can bear is one thing, flat out ripping off is the norm though, and unfortunately the MOCOs believe the myth that everyone in EU/Aussie and Japan in particular is swimming in cash, and it just aint so.
If i could get a "fair" price at my dealer i'd happily support the dealer and spend my cash there, but I cant, so I dont.
The solution should be simple, rein in the prices, get back the local customer base, turn over volume increases, net revenue stays stable or possibly even increases.
Unfortunately greed is the driving motivator here so they go for the "block the US dealers from international sales and continue to Azz Rape everyone else solution" instead....
