O.K., so, I have to admit, I just don't get it! I bought and installed an FP3 on a Softail Slim recently, and I located (and flashed the ECM with) a canned Map that seems to work just fine. However, the folks at Vance & Hines (V&H) tell me that before messing with Autotune, I should run the bike (as-is) for 2-3 tanks of fuel before fiddling with any fine-tuning or Autotune functions, and furthermore, that I don't even need to have the FP3 connected to the bike during that period????

Say what?

How can the FP3 be communicating with the ECM to amend (fine tune) the canned Map parameters when the FP3 itself isn't even present? And even if it were present, how can the FP3 communicate with (or firmly update) the ECM, without the specific command to "FLASH" the ECM, as is required during the initial Mapping and/or Autotune processes? It makes no sense! Its not like its capable of updating (flashing) the ECM in real-time from a remote location, right? I'm afraid I just don't get it.

On my Slim, 2-3 tanks of fuel amounts to 450-600 miles of use without any fine-tuning whatsoever, and even in the Autotune mode, the recommended changes need to be "flashed" to the ECM by specific commands (i.e., it does NOT happen automatically). So what I don't understand is how can an FP3 that isn't even present, be amending (fine-tuning) the parameters of the canned Map the way the V&H folks claim? Note: I'm not necessarily disputing what they're saying; its just that I don't understand it.

Anybody?

 

I think the ECM is tweaking itself based its new settings/map. Even the HD tune tweaks itself based on elevation, spark knock detection etc. The map is not changed or fine tuned is my understanding only until you auto tune. I keep reading about VH canned answers of 2 to 3 tanks of gas. I think that is to keep the call volume spaced out more. I would auto tune any time you want or feel the need.

 

Its interesting that you say this, because the V&H folks readily admit that they are purposefully trying to discourage people from using the Autotune process; they apparently feel that too many people are experiencing (or are actually "introducing") problems with the revised or amended Map tune, by simply messing with the Autotune option.

 

The answer on V&H website:

 

Galv Tex,

Thanks for your post.

Yes, it's pretty clear that the folks at V&H don't believe in the need for Autotune, and to be clear, I'm perfectly good with that as a general policy, but my primary interest is in learning whether (and how?) the FP3 can communicate revisions or improved parameters to the canned Map in real-time, when the FP3 itself isn't even present? That's the part that has me baffled.

The way the V&H tech explained it to me is that the FP3, even when absent or disconnected, is somehow transmitting refined/improved parameters to the ECM's canned Map, in real-time (exclusive of the Autotune function or program), based upon ongoing performance evaluations, and I just can't envision how in the world that can be?

I dunno? Perhaps others here are correct when they say that it has nothing to do with the FP3, but rather, that the ECM itself has somehow been programmed by the FP3 (within the recently flashed canned Map), to periodically assess, reassess, refine and revise certain parameters? I have no clue? Basically, that's what I was hoping to learn here.

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I tinker by nature so I cant accept a canned map being good for all. I have nothing from VH other than the FP3 and since they didnt dyno with my equipment, I was fully prepared and looked forward to auto tune. Did my bike run decent with the canned map? Sure. It runs better now that I did some AT and tweaked some settings based on research using other tuners documentation. STILL waiting on VH documentation they have promised. Only thing I can complain about really

 

The ECM is learning...

When not connected, the FP3 is not powered up and certainly doesn't have any kind of real range (even when it is connected). So, if you're driving say seventy miles away, with the FP3 at home in the garage, how can the FP3 be doing anything?

The ECM is always adjusting a little bit here and there, using the data from all the sensors. That's the advantage of computer controlled fuel management.
That's also why you can swap out pipe or A/C, but not both, without adding a tuner. The ECM has enough adjustment range to take care of those changes and will make the small adjustments necessary to fine tune your setup and environmental conditions.


I have run a few autotune sessions (I don't have V&H pipes on my bike). It runs like crap when you fire up the autotune session. My bike has settled in nicely and I am also very happy with the way it's running now.

 

Hi,

I picked up an FP3 a few weeks ago and have had it on the bike for about two weeks, which unfortunately is only about 100 miles so far. I also spoke with V&H and I was told the same thing. The tech explained to me what others here have said - once the starting map is downloaded, even if your FP3 isn't connected - the ecm will make small adjustments within its parameters by using the data from the O2 sensors and so on. The tech said that most people will not get results noticeably different from the completed results in this manner than by running autotune afterwards.

BUT I know I love to tinker with stuff, and even though I understand everything he said to me and I believe it....I will still probably mess around with the autotune feature. The cool thing is, you can go back if you want. I can tell you this, when I first flashed the map I still had some hesitation and some popping on upshifts. That lasted until the next time I rode the bike and now I'd say that 75-80% of it is gone. It seems to get better each time I ride it, and I'm still using the map they recommended for me and have not started an autotune session yet.

I did adjust the throttle responsivity as suggested on the V&H site after flashing the recommended starting map. In my opinion that was a huge improvement and well worth the money I paid for the FP3.

 

Paul,
Thanks for the detailed post and the helpful information it provided. The ECM/sensor thing makes perfect sense (I hadn't actually thought about that and their independent nature relative to the FP3). And I'll definitely have to look into this business about the "throttle responsivity" (?), but all-in-all, it sounds like I just need to leave well enough alone on my Slim for awhile, to see what (if any) positive changes the odometer miles may bring. Meanwhile, good luck with yours and thanks again.

P. S. - Just checked and apparently the Throttle Progressively parameter only applies to the so-called "throttle by wire" models, which doesn't apply to my Softail Slim.

 

Correction: Doh! I guess I had this ***-backwards. Apparently, the throttle type on my Softail Slim is a "fly-by-wire" style, so the Throttle Progressively parameter is in-fact applicable to my Slim. My bad.