Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel InjectionNeed advice on ignition issues? Questions about a tuner? Have questions about a EFI calibration or Fuel Injection? Tips on Engine Diagnostics, how to get codes, and what they mean. Find your answers here.
I don’t know if it was ever stated—- did the engine put out expected power after the dyno tune? Has a compression test been done? Has fuel pressure been checked? Has it been checked for intake leaks? Just going back to basics.
i think that the idea of going to a different shop and having the bike tested in a good one. those are some large fuel additions in the upper throttle positions.
if you take it to another place, have them do a couple of 100% 4th and 5th roll ons, then have them take a look at loaded steady state,(5-7% Load) at 10-15and 20% throttle postions in 5th gear. the roll ons should be self explanitory, the loaded part throttles are to get a look at what the afr is doing in a simulated highway cruising situation.
m
different dyno's usually show different hp and torque numbers, but that is ok. you are wanting to get a look at your AFR's
Yeah, I think it's a good idea for sure.
The loaded part throttle AFRs are what I'm really concerned with, but this motor is not going to see anything other than gentle riding at RPMs under 3500 from now until 550 miles, per the S & S break-in procedure. I am not a believer in hard break ins, and never will be. I need to resolve this AFR issue well before then, which is why I'm strongly leaning toward stopping all riding until I have an auto tuner (or some other solution) in place.
I don’t know if it was ever stated—- did the engine put out expected power after the dyno tune? Has a compression test been done? Has fuel pressure been checked? Has it been checked for intake leaks? Just going back to basics.
Great points jbarr.
Yes, the engine ran great after the tune, but within 500 miles I lost my front piston to galling that I suspect was caused by hard full-throttle runs under load on the dyno after less than an hour of time / 50 miles on the build. I know many will dispute this position, but it's going to be very hard to convince me otherwise.
The reason I'm looking to validate the AFRs after the pistons and cylinders were replaced after this failure is because in the 80 miles of riding I've done so far - in accordance with S & S break-in procedures, I have cylinder head temps of 250ish at the front cylinder head (just in front of the spark plug), and 360ish at the rear cylinder. The spark plugs are not reading the same either. I have not personally checked for fuel pressure, intake leaks of compression because I just took posession of the bike 2 days ago from the builder. It runs great, it's just that 100-degree difference front to rear, measured with a Milwaukee infrared heat sensor, validated by a 3M one.
2000 TC 88 with S & S 100" big bore kit, S & S 570 gear drive cams, ThunderHeader, Big Sucker air cleaner, MM fuel injection, PCIII USB
I want (NEED) to validate a dyno tune to eliminate / correct a possibly lean condition on my bike. Rather than dropping another $300+ for a 2nd opinion from another tuner, I'd rather just purchase tools to do the tune myself without ever having to pay for another dyno tune again.
I could just get AFR gauges and O2 sensors (thanks for the suggestion kingglide) and tap those into my Thunder Header, then validate / improve the tune myself with the gauges and my PCIII. The two down-sides to this is the time it will take to get the tune right, and the inevitable failure of this piggyback tuner leaving me stranded someplace when it fails.
Or, I could replace my PCIII with a tuner that has auto-tune capability and not have to hassle with the manual process at all, assuming these things work as one would expect.
I've heard some tuners flash the factory ECM so that once the tune is done, they tuner is no longer engaged, thus eliminating a potential point of failure.
I've got 80 gentle miles on Piston Set II, and a 100 degree difference front to rear and a tuner and builder who don't see this as an issue. I'm just not going to put another mile on this thing until I know what's going on AFR wise.
As always, any guidance you can provide will be greatly appreciated. You guys are the only honest sources of information I have for this, since neither my builder not tuner seem interested in owning this problem.
And looking at these plugs, there is clearly an AFR issue. The one with the bright shiny side electrode is from the cooler front cylinder, and the more normal looking plug of from the 350+ degree rear cylinder.
So what's the question? I guess it's this: Do you think it's simple enough for a person to tune their own bike with a PCIII USB and AFR gauges, or should I upgrade? If so, what should I upgrade to? As I understand it, the Power Vision isn't available for models older than 20001.
In case it's not obvious, the side electrode in the top pic (hot, 350-degree rear cylinder) has a dusting of spent fuel on it, and the same electrode from the bottom pic (250 degree front cylinder) is utterly clean of debris and shiny.
Left plug Front Right plug Rear
All done with a power vision and help from fuelmoto
👍 Wiz
Last edited by Wizardofaus; 08-05-2018 at 11:24 PM.
ok, just saw this while looking things over again,,,,,you very well could have timing issues going on. the increase in displacement vs the CC of the combustion chamber is bound to have given an increase in compression. the ignition tables in the ecm will most likely not be working in your favor. the ignition timing most likely needs to be addressed!!!
post up pics of the ignition tables.
m
No matter what you choose to do the AFR gauge will always be your friend.
Scooting across Neb @90 MPH and seeing my fat AFR number gives me a piece of mind.
08-05-2018, 09:28 PM
