Bike Makes More Power When Backing Off Throttle
#11
08-08-2018, 04:49 AM
Club Member
#12
08-08-2018, 06:51 AM
I looked at the 2002-2005 Stock Improved tune, it shows 5 degrees of Adaptive Knock retard at a MAP of 90 and 100.
The tune says this is reduced on each key on cycle.
Do you have Knock Control enabled in your tune with an appropriate temperature set?
The Stock Improved tune is set 158 F
If you do not have Knock Control enabled and have retard values in the Adaptive Knock Control table they likely will not be reduced by ignition on sequences.
Test it by doing several rides with stops and restarts and check the current tune again to see if the Adaptive Knock Retard changes.
What is currently in your Adaptive knock retard table on the bike?
You can get the current tune from the ECM, Choose Program Vehicle, Load tune then Load Copy.
Choose Load Copy of current tune, that will read the ECM and allow you to save a copy of the current tune to a slot on the Power Vision.
Then you can get the copy of current tune from the PV in WinPV (it will open the tune with a file name of untitled.pvv) Save it using a descriptive name.
Look at your current Adaptive Knock Retard table.
If your current tune in the ECM has Knock Control enabled and a temperature setting that your bike normally reaches, and the Adaptive Knock Control table is 0 (zero) at 100 and 90 MAP settings.
Add a couple of degrees of timing, run the bike trying to hit the 90 and 100 MAP portions of the tune and see if you get anything in the table (pull your copy of current tune from the ECU again)
Items you might be able to log on the PV, all found under Vehicle Advanced signals:
Engine Speed
Engine Temperature
Front Spark Knock Retard
Ion-Q Cylinder 1
Ion-Q Cylinder 2
Knock Count Front
Knock Count Rear
MAP
Rear Spark Knock Retard
Desired Air/Fuel (Ratio)
Spark Advance Front
Spark Advance Rear
Throttle Position
The tune says this is reduced on each key on cycle.
Do you have Knock Control enabled in your tune with an appropriate temperature set?
The Stock Improved tune is set 158 F
If you do not have Knock Control enabled and have retard values in the Adaptive Knock Control table they likely will not be reduced by ignition on sequences.
Test it by doing several rides with stops and restarts and check the current tune again to see if the Adaptive Knock Retard changes.
What is currently in your Adaptive knock retard table on the bike?
You can get the current tune from the ECM, Choose Program Vehicle, Load tune then Load Copy.
Choose Load Copy of current tune, that will read the ECM and allow you to save a copy of the current tune to a slot on the Power Vision.
Then you can get the copy of current tune from the PV in WinPV (it will open the tune with a file name of untitled.pvv) Save it using a descriptive name.
Look at your current Adaptive Knock Retard table.
If your current tune in the ECM has Knock Control enabled and a temperature setting that your bike normally reaches, and the Adaptive Knock Control table is 0 (zero) at 100 and 90 MAP settings.
Add a couple of degrees of timing, run the bike trying to hit the 90 and 100 MAP portions of the tune and see if you get anything in the table (pull your copy of current tune from the ECU again)
Items you might be able to log on the PV, all found under Vehicle Advanced signals:
Engine Speed
Engine Temperature
Front Spark Knock Retard
Ion-Q Cylinder 1
Ion-Q Cylinder 2
Knock Count Front
Knock Count Rear
MAP
Rear Spark Knock Retard
Desired Air/Fuel (Ratio)
Spark Advance Front
Spark Advance Rear
Throttle Position
Last edited by shanneba; 08-08-2018 at 10:30 AM. Reason: added log info
#13
08-09-2018, 11:27 AM
I looked at the 2002-2005 Stock Improved tune, it shows 5 degrees of Adaptive Knock retard at a MAP of 90 and 100.
The tune says this is reduced on each key on cycle.
Do you have Knock Control enabled in your tune with an appropriate temperature set?
The Stock Improved tune is set 158 F
If you do not have Knock Control enabled and have retard values in the Adaptive Knock Control table they likely will not be reduced by ignition on sequences.
Test it by doing several rides with stops and restarts and check the current tune again to see if the Adaptive Knock Retard changes.
What is currently in your Adaptive knock retard table on the bike?
You can get the current tune from the ECM, Choose Program Vehicle, Load tune then Load Copy.
Choose Load Copy of current tune, that will read the ECM and allow you to save a copy of the current tune to a slot on the Power Vision.
Then you can get the copy of current tune from the PV in WinPV (it will open the tune with a file name of untitled.pvv) Save it using a descriptive name.
Look at your current Adaptive Knock Retard table.
If your current tune in the ECM has Knock Control enabled and a temperature setting that your bike normally reaches, and the Adaptive Knock Control table is 0 (zero) at 100 and 90 MAP settings.
Add a couple of degrees of timing, run the bike trying to hit the 90 and 100 MAP portions of the tune and see if you get anything in the table (pull your copy of current tune from the ECU again)
Items you might be able to log on the PV, all found under Vehicle Advanced signals:
Engine Speed
Engine Temperature
Front Spark Knock Retard
Ion-Q Cylinder 1
Ion-Q Cylinder 2
Knock Count Front
Knock Count Rear
MAP
Rear Spark Knock Retard
Desired Air/Fuel (Ratio)
Spark Advance Front
Spark Advance Rear
Throttle Position
The tune says this is reduced on each key on cycle.
Do you have Knock Control enabled in your tune with an appropriate temperature set?
The Stock Improved tune is set 158 F
If you do not have Knock Control enabled and have retard values in the Adaptive Knock Control table they likely will not be reduced by ignition on sequences.
Test it by doing several rides with stops and restarts and check the current tune again to see if the Adaptive Knock Retard changes.
What is currently in your Adaptive knock retard table on the bike?
You can get the current tune from the ECM, Choose Program Vehicle, Load tune then Load Copy.
Choose Load Copy of current tune, that will read the ECM and allow you to save a copy of the current tune to a slot on the Power Vision.
Then you can get the copy of current tune from the PV in WinPV (it will open the tune with a file name of untitled.pvv) Save it using a descriptive name.
Look at your current Adaptive Knock Retard table.
If your current tune in the ECM has Knock Control enabled and a temperature setting that your bike normally reaches, and the Adaptive Knock Control table is 0 (zero) at 100 and 90 MAP settings.
Add a couple of degrees of timing, run the bike trying to hit the 90 and 100 MAP portions of the tune and see if you get anything in the table (pull your copy of current tune from the ECU again)
Items you might be able to log on the PV, all found under Vehicle Advanced signals:
Engine Speed
Engine Temperature
Front Spark Knock Retard
Ion-Q Cylinder 1
Ion-Q Cylinder 2
Knock Count Front
Knock Count Rear
MAP
Rear Spark Knock Retard
Desired Air/Fuel (Ratio)
Spark Advance Front
Spark Advance Rear
Throttle Position
Thanks.
#14
08-09-2018, 12:41 PM
#15
08-10-2018, 05:44 AM
your are running this system on a bike that did not have 02 sensors from the factory. do you have some way of determining what your AFR values are?
without a dyno, it seems like it would be pretty hard to quantify any fine adjustments or have some sort of proof. I would have to guess that your VE's and AFR tables are not optimized for your bike. The best solution is to take it to a competent pro and have the bike properly tuned, or you could weld in 02 bungs, and add the auto-tune pro kit and continue, but at least you would have solid data to really solve the issue.
m
without a dyno, it seems like it would be pretty hard to quantify any fine adjustments or have some sort of proof. I would have to guess that your VE's and AFR tables are not optimized for your bike. The best solution is to take it to a competent pro and have the bike properly tuned, or you could weld in 02 bungs, and add the auto-tune pro kit and continue, but at least you would have solid data to really solve the issue.
m
I am running Dresser Duals for @ 07-08 for this reason and and installed the AT Pro kit for the PV
With the provided canned map from Fuel Moto, my bike ran ok. After using the AT function, there was a big difference in performance.
Yes, it cost some coin. The only other option is to take it for a dyno
#16
08-10-2018, 10:27 AM
Road Master
[QUOTE=LazySundays;17575813 I noticed that as I finish a pass and start to back out of the throttle the bike seems to accelerate. [/QUOTE]
Unless it's bogging down or something, what you're describing is normal. I'd almost bet anyone that has responded to the OP, if you go WOT and then ease off it a little, you'll feel a surge. Why would you want to tune a touring bike to run WOT anyway? To the OP, save your money and just ride it and don't go WOT, just almost WOT...
Unless it's bogging down or something, what you're describing is normal. I'd almost bet anyone that has responded to the OP, if you go WOT and then ease off it a little, you'll feel a surge. Why would you want to tune a touring bike to run WOT anyway? To the OP, save your money and just ride it and don't go WOT, just almost WOT...
#17
08-10-2018, 02:06 PM
Unless it's bogging down or something, what you're describing is normal. I'd almost bet anyone that has responded to the OP, if you go WOT and then ease off it a little, you'll feel a surge. Why would you want to tune a touring bike to run WOT anyway? To the OP, save your money and just ride it and don't go WOT, just almost WOT...
The following users liked this post:
jbarr1 (08-10-2018)
#18
08-10-2018, 03:06 PM
Unless it's bogging down or something, what you're describing is normal. I'd almost bet anyone that has responded to the OP, if you go WOT and then ease off it a little, you'll feel a surge. Why would you want to tune a touring bike to run WOT anyway? To the OP, save your money and just ride it and don't go WOT, just almost WOT...
Second, I challenge you to find any vehicle that runs properly that will make more power and go faster in a given gear by closing the throttle a bit.
#19
08-10-2018, 04:08 PM
#20
08-10-2018, 04:42 PM
The computerized era we're living in has us wrapped around the axle about data points and perfect tunes, and I've become guilty of it too, but at what financial and time cost?
It wasn't all that long ago that all bikes and all cars ran fine - thank you very much - with nothing more that a carburetor, a set of points and a condenser inside a distributor that used a simple vacuum-actuated plate plus weights and springs to control ignition timing. You set it, you forget, you run it.
Just a thought, but is your bike running well enough to make it through another year without dropping $400 with a tuner? Only you can answer that. But if you're going to do cams next year, and if it's not running all that bad, then maybe just ride it and forget it, and put that $400 you'd spend for an interim tune into something more tangible. If I understand right, the issue only happens near WOT, which isn't a place where you probably spend a lot of time.
Just thinking out loud
It wasn't all that long ago that all bikes and all cars ran fine - thank you very much - with nothing more that a carburetor, a set of points and a condenser inside a distributor that used a simple vacuum-actuated plate plus weights and springs to control ignition timing. You set it, you forget, you run it.
Just a thought, but is your bike running well enough to make it through another year without dropping $400 with a tuner? Only you can answer that. But if you're going to do cams next year, and if it's not running all that bad, then maybe just ride it and forget it, and put that $400 you'd spend for an interim tune into something more tangible. If I understand right, the issue only happens near WOT, which isn't a place where you probably spend a lot of time.
Just thinking out loud