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Power Vision Information Thread

 
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:01 PM
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Default Power Vision Information Thread

Okay, so why would I change tuners when my bike was running fine and I had developed a good working knowledge of my previous tuner? I had been running the PCV with Auto-Tune for two years and can honestly say that I couldn't ask the bike to run any better, but I was drawn to the Power Vision (PV) for several reasons:

1. The PV and most flash-based tuners like SERT, SEST, and TTS can access the ECU tables directly, while the PCV is a "piggyback" device that intercepts the ECU data and alters it according to the tuner's specs. IMO the engineering strategy of the PCV is valid and that system works very well for most riders. OTOH there were some areas I wanted to experiment with, including speedometer calibration, IAC steps, and tables that might relate to improving city gas mileage--and these are settings the PCV could not access.

2. On non-TBW bikes the PV can import PCIII and PCV base maps to the VE Tables. TBW bikes can't do this because their VE tables are based on airflow (KPA), not throttle position, as PCV maps are Alpha-N tables that work with RPM and TP. Thus, you can't import data about apples into one based on oranges, but because I have an í07 bike my fine-running PCV maps could be imported seamlessly to the new tuner and flashed to the ECU. Slick!

3. My Auto-Tune (AT-100) modules can be used to import data from the WB O2 sensors that I already have installed, and this data can (someday) be imported into the ECU tables. It can't run closed-loop with the WB sensors, as the stock ECU is not programmed to do that, but the data from these sensors can be used to construct a very accurate tune that can be flashed to the ECU. This capability is not viable yet as DynoJet is still working on the app to implement it, but I'm told it'll be a month or so before it's ready. No problem, as my tune is fine as it is now.

4. Datalogging is possible without hauling your running notebook computer on your running bike like you must do with other flash-based tuners, a tricky proposition even if you have a passenger who can hold it for you. The PCV could datalog but only with the bug-ridden, finicky, and over-priced LCD-200 display unitóbut it was limited in what it could log. The PV unit is small and can be mounted or stored almost anywhere, and the J1850 cable going from the bike to the PV is 6í long, long-enough to run from the side-covers to the handlebars. You donít need to have the PV attached to the bike to run the selected tune.

5. The PV unit itself can also provide useful data to the rider in real-time, like front-head temperature, MAP, knock-retard values, IAC steps, etc.ómost anything accessible in the ECU via the J1850 data bus.

So by changing tuners I'm fixing something that wasn't broken again, but after working with PV for about two weeks I can honestly say that the decision was a good one for me. The reason is that there are some irritating little peccadilloes inherent in my bikeís operation that the PCV just canít access, and only a flash-based tuner can. Owners of other flash-based tuners will say ďI told you so,Ē but it isnít like I didnít know about this functionality before. Itís just that with those tuners there is no ability to import PCV maps and the tune library for all of those is very sparse, so for most riders including me a dyno-tune would be required. Thatís territory and expense I didnít want to venture into.

I would like to say from the outset that I still think that a PCV at $300 with a Fuel Moto map is the best bargain in tuners today, and its capabilities are very suitable for most riders. That said, letís look at the PV.



Here are some videos on installing PV:



Here are some notes on PV installation and a few ideas on how Iíve eliminated some of the irritating qualities of my bikeís operation. First, the installation, which is very straightforward and generally well-documented in the Getting Started guide: Install WinPV on your computer, connect the PV to the computer via supplied USB cable, install the drivers pointing to either the CD or Power Vision hard-drive folder, and run the PV Update Client in your Start Menu. The last item will search for both software and PV updates, listing the installed and current versions. This is more convenient than doing it all manually. Slick!

The next step is to install the PV to the bike with the supplied cable that attaches to the bikeís J1850 port. This is located under the right side-cover on my í07 but I believe is on the left side for later models. I ran the cable under the tank by raising it, and the 6í cable was just long enough to attach the PV to the right handlebar clamp. You donít need to have the PV mounted at all times, but is only necessary to flash tunes to the ECU or view the display console. More about that later. I have it mounted with a Techmount bracket, also from Fuel Moto, that attaches to my right (or left) handlebar control clamp, and one is also available to clamp to the handlebar itself. The first works fine and although it appears to partially block the right speaker I donít notice any reduction in sound quality or volume. Disclaimer: My ears arenít great, so this may not be a credible endorsement and YMMV.

The first thing to do after installing the PV is to turn the ignition on (motor off) and run the initial setup procedure, outlined well in the Getting Started instructions, which includes saving the stock tune. I pulled the headlight fuse to relieve the battery during this process, which takes a few minutes, but at minimum I would switch to low-beam (lower current draw). Start this critical step by touching Vehicle Tools > Save Stock. Going further requires that the PV and bike become married, and unlike human society there is no live-in arrangement or divorce possible between the two in the future. Once the PV and bike are married you can only flash tunes on that bike, although some functions of the PV are possible on other bikes, like datalogging, gauge display, etc. Next is to load a copy of the stock tune to the custom tune list, which once done can then be edited as a .PVT filetype. The original stock tune is saved to a .STK file format and cannot be edited. I also saved a copy to the Custom Tunes section as an editable .PVT file and I placed in slot 6 so there is less danger of accidentally selecting it. Once it is loaded as a .PVT you can compare other custom tunes to it using the Compare Tunes feature in WinPV. With this feature when you drag your cursor over a setting that is different it will show a small window with both values. This is a valuable tool that was present with the PCIII but curiously omitted in the PCV software.

It is important that you make sure you have the stock tune saved, preferably on at least two digital media. I keep copies of all tunes both stock and custom on the PV, the netbook, two separate drives on the desktop, and an external hard-driveóthatís five backups. I do this for all my critical files, so the PV isnít unique in this respect.

You can load a total of six tunes into the PV (see photos #2 & 3) which can be flashed to the ECU at any time when the bike is not running, about a 30-sec. process from start to finish. This ability to switch tunes isnít as quick-and-easy as the PCV with its on-the-fly switching feature, but for me this will not happen often and thus wonít likely cause undo stress out in the real world. After all, the ability is there, but itís just not quite as accessible as before.



I wonít write a full tutorial about the WinPV software, as there is a quick-install and a PDF user manual for that, but it doesnít go into extreme detail as to the functions of each accessible table and setting. Since these tables and settings are more-or-less universal among other flash-based tuners there are independent tutorials and manuals available on-line that give more info and recommendations. Once again it would be prudent to note here that care should be taken making changes to any of the tables, and make sure you have a working copy of the last verifiably good tune created including the stock tune you saved. Once a tune is saved to the PV it can be retrieved into the WinPV software on your computer, edited, and saved to your hard-drive. As I mentioned, I keep a copy on my netbook, which is the only computer that connects to the PV, and my desktop computer (in several places) where I do most of my editing. Since the two computers are on the network I can transfer files easily between the two: Edit on the desktop, then transfer to the netbook via wifi, send to the PV, then finally flash from the PV to the ECU. Unlike the two-step process of editing and sending maps to the PCV, the PV takes three. The learning curve is not steep for PV operation and I caught onto it very quickly. What isnít clear yet is the function of some of the tables embedded in the ECU, but until I figure it out and am sure what Iím doing Iíll leave them alone. Haphazardly making changes is dangerous, which is why you should keep backups of tunes on-hand prior to editing. I know Iím repeating myself but this is important!

As mentioned above, for those with í07 and earlier bikes you can import your PCIII and PCV maps into the VE tables using the WinPV software. Once the tune is created you will send it to the PV, then flash it to the ECU as with any other custom tune. One word of warning about importing PC maps: Make sure you do it with the stock tune installed in the software first. Your PC map works with the stock ECU settings and to import the maps to a PV tune youíll need to integrate it into the stock tune. This is not clear in the PV manual. If you import a PCV map onto a non-stock custom tune the tune will not be correct at minimum and in a worst-case scenario the bike may not even run.

I use a filename system similar to what was used with the PCV: e.g. PV-1a. ďPVĒ designates the tuner, of course, ď1Ē the first basic tune strategy (e.g. lean for mileage will be ď1Ē, richer for cooling ď2Ē, and possibly more down the road). The last character ďaĒ indicates variations on a given tune strategy. E.g. if PV-1a is running well but I want to experiment with more changes Iíll save the new tune to PV-1b, and so forth. Iím on PV-1d now and when I get PV-1 sorted-out I will call it PV-1z, the ďzĒ designating the current running tune.

Here are some changes Iíve made to the ECU tables already:

1. Calibrate the speedometer (Gear > Speedometer Calibration). My speedo has always been 4% fast compared to the two GPSís Iíve had attached to the bike, and I consider both to be accurate. Few things irritate me more than an inaccurate gauge, so this item gave me great pleasure to correct. The value for my í07 was 2058 and 2135 put the speedometer spot-on with my GPS, but thereís no guarantee this will be right for another year-model or even another Ď07. But for me all I can say is ďViola!Ē Thatís one irritation gone.

2. My bike has always given lousy city mileage, usually mid-30ís, although it is quite good on the backroads (45-49). Iíve taken several ECU tables and reduced fuel in all of them, basically following this procedure:

a. Decel Enleanment: +20% (higher value means less fuel). Iím getting an occasional single minor pop right after roll-off, but Iíll leave it here for the time being.

b. Accel Enrichment: -10% (Will be experimenting with -20% next.)

c. Cranking Fuel: -10% (≤118į engine-temp only)

d. Warmup enrichment: -30%. This sounds like a lot, but it is causing no problems yet and the rich smell I was getting at start-up is mostly gone. This cycle only lasts about 20-30 sec. at each start-up.

e. IAC steps. This sets the IAC motor position at initial start-up, and my bike always jumped to a high RPM immediately. I lowered all of these values considerably, especially at cold temperatures. This must be matched to idle speed or else it will hunt for the right idle. More on this later.

f. Idle speed: I didnít have a big problem with the stock settings but lowered the values from 967 to 950 RPM @ ≥205įF.

g. Rev Limiter: Set at 6200.

h. EITMS: Set to ď1Ē (enabled), but it doesnít work on í07s unless you have the ECU firmware that makes it available. I donít so it doesnít work, but I can live without it. My bikeís front-head temperature doesnít get up to the 290į tripping point often anyway.

These are the only ECU values Iíve messed with so far. The jury is still out on any city-mileage improvements, but there are no adverse side-effects in normal operation yet, and I like not filling the garage full of fumes at every cold start. Jamie tells me most modern HDís have very rich warm-up tables, around 11-12:1 AFR, and that explains the fumes in the garage.

Inserting the wrong settings for these tables can cause your bike to run poorly, so make changes at your own risk, as what works on my bike may not on yours. Keep copies of old tunes in case you need to make a temporary advance to the rear. Iím repeating myself again but these points needs to be drummed.

I like information and the PV also will show useful info on its LCD display as analog or digital gauges. There are quite a few ďsignalsĒ that can be monitored as well as a good selection of gauge styles, each configurable as you like them. I presently have the four-part digital gauge with white background running in daylight, but with one touch of the left arrow it moves to the dimmer black-background gauge for night riding. The color of the numerals is configurable, and since daylight viewing is always a problem for LCD displays Iíve found the black numerals on the white background work the best. For night, a more subdued color (orange, similar to the SGís fairing gauges) on black works fine. You can also adjust brightness. (See photos #5-7)



On the four-part gauge I presently have engine temperature (front head), MAP (KPA), IAC Steps, and Throttle Positionóbut there are many more to choose from, presumably any that can be monitored from the bikeís J1850 port as well as some provided by the PV itself. I find the display to be acceptable in daylight, certainly better than the LCD-200 that works with the PCV, but not as bright as my Zumo GPS. The analog gauges are really not visible enough to be viewed in daylight, IMO, but the digital alternative are easily seen if the foreground and background contrast enough. Some signals are not working yet, one being the one that displays the gear youíre presently in, but I havenít tried them all and donít know how many more are non-functional. I also understand a gas-mileage selection of some sort will be available at a later date, which I eagerly await. You can also check trouble codes and clear them on the PV display.

Datalogging is a useful feature, IMO, and you can pick the items you want to log and view later in Excel (See photo #4). I havenít worked with this enough yet but already see its virtues. For example, Iím seeing some non-audible detonation at WOT and by comparing RPM, MAP, and Knock Retard (front and rear) values you can figure out where to re-adjust the ignition advance. Another area Iím interested in is the set-idle speed vs. IAC steps. If you look at IAC steps at various engine temperatures you can figure out the best settings for the IAC Step table.

You can also monitor all of these on the display, but we shouldnít be looking too intently at the screen while riding, IMO, and viewing all the datalogs later on the computer is a much safer idea. I couldnít get a good snapshot of the Excel document for posting, as Excel doesnít seem to allow you to use the print-screen function and printing to a PDF document didnít provide good formatting to give a decent representation. Maybe someone else can post something if anyoneís interested.

I must put in a plug for Fuel Moto here. Not only is their price competitive, but their service is up to the excellence Iíve learned to expect from them, which is to say second-to-none. Besides that, they give a double-warranty (2 years) on the PV like they have with other DJ tuners. Iím sure Iíll be adding to this write-up as time progresses and hope others will share their experiences with the PV too.
 

Last edited by iclick; 03-28-2011 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:13 PM
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Nice detailed write up.
I was wondering what you were up to.
 
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:22 PM
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So this is a tuner in itself or goes in conjunction with the PCV?
 
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:42 PM
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So if you have 2 tunes say performance and economy to change between the 2 you have to load the stock tune in before switching between the tunes? I have PV on order with woods 555 cams waiting as cams are on back order.
 
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Phat09flhx View Post
So this is a tuner in itself or goes in conjunction with the PCV?
It is a module that allows you to flash tunes to the ECU directly, and unlike the PCV does not need to be connected to the bike except for that purpose and to datalog and view items on the display. It isn't designed to work with the PCV but there's no reason you couldn't use them together, AFAIK. That said, I don't think DynoJet ever had any concept of running the two together. The PCV-AT and PV is another matter, as both AT and PV use the J1850 port and I'm not sure how splitting the signals like that would affect operation.
 

Last edited by iclick; 03-07-2011 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam2010 View Post
So if you have 2 tunes say performance and economy to change between the 2 you have to load the stock tune in before switching between the tunes?
No, not just to switch tunes. To do that all you need to do is turn the engine off, switch ignition on, select the tune you want to run from the list on the PV, and flash it to the ECU. That's about a 30-sec. process. I plan on having two maps installed, one lean in the cruise-range for mileage and another richer for cooling. So, if I get caught in heavy traffic and the engine is getting too hot I can pull over, stop the engine, turn the ignition on, select the tune, and flash it. Not as easy as the PCV being able to switch between two maps on the fly, but I think it's good enough for most.

To import a PCV map to create a PV tune you'd need to start with the stock tune, but you do that in the WinPV software on your computer, not the PV. Once the tune is created in WinPV you send it to the PV for storage, then it can be flashed at any time. You can put six maps in PV for flashing to the ECU at any time (as long as the engine isn't running).
 

Last edited by iclick; 03-07-2011 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:02 PM
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If I ever decide on the PV I know where to come with any questions!

Sounds like you are having some fun. Don't you love new toys?

My PCV w/AT is still new to me. I played with it for a couple weeks when I first got it but haven't done much tweeking lately. My next fine-tuning attempts will begin once summer gets here with it's warmer temps.

Great to see that kind of documentation of your work. And you are definitely blessed with an ability to communicate it in writing very well.

Good luck as you delve deeper into the PV capabilities.
 
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:03 PM
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Great information Iclick and nice write up!
 
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:10 PM
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Thanks for the write-up. Since TBW bikes can't import a PC-V map, in order to have a correct map a dynotune will be necessary?

The reason I switched over to the PC-V was due to the lack of a competent tuner in Houston. Seems everyone can tune with a PC but break out a SuperTuner or TTS and bring up the subject of timing and they all scatter. I can pretty much guarantee there are no tuners in Houston that can tune my bike with a PV at this time. While I trust the maps from Jamie, they are not built for my bike even though I'm running nearly all of his products. Without a custom tune, I'll always be short on numbers and fuel economy. While I think the PC-V with Autotune has been terrific....it does have hiccups from time to time.

Looks like I'll have to make a trip to Fuel Moto for a tune if I choose to go the PV route.
 

Last edited by CigarCritic; 03-07-2011 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:11 AM
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Subscribed...
Had Mine about 3 weeks , still fooling with it..

Trying to figure out how to get the individual items displayed
Good write up
 

Last edited by katobird; 03-09-2011 at 05:05 AM.

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