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Old 01-14-2019, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FatBob2018 View Post
Telling of what? When Harley owns something like 90% of the big touring bike market, what else could people be trading from?

Where is the other poll, the one where Gold Wing owners traded to Harley? And to be relevant, that poll should be conducted in a year where everything changed, like 2014 when the Gold Wing was unchanged but Harley revamped the Rushmore bikes...

Anyone can derive any trend they want by choosing small-sample polls. But the fact is that while sales for everyone are declining, Harley maintains an approximately 50% market share among >600 cc bikes. And since they don't have sport bikes at all, and the other manufacturers rely heavily on sport bike sales, what that really means is Harley's share of the heavyweight touring market is dramatically higher than 50%. That hasn't changed.

Here's another reference point for you: I was in a major Honda dealer yesterday, and every Gold Wing they had was marked down $3,000 to $4,000 off MSRP. I looked on Cycle Trader at the K1600B, found a brand new one in Austin for $14,000 and change. Sales of everything are down. But when you only sell something like 300 K1600 touring bikes a year in America like BMW, it's not all that hard to show a big % increase year over year when you introduce two new models. If they only sold 200 K1600B and Grand America models in all of 2018 (and managed to continue selling the existing 300 K1600GT and GTLs) then yeah, BMW could claim a 60% increase in their share of big touring bike sales. But it would still be nothing more than a popped pimple on the *** of Harley's sales.

When there is actually an identifiable market share shift, we will all know it, it will be front page news on every motorcycle site.

(Not knocking the gold Wing or K1600 either; if I was buying a big touring bike today it would be one of those, especially with the discounts available today!)

don't know where you get your facts from but, they are way off.

BMW is selling thousands not hundreds. There company goal for 2020 is to hit 200,000 motorcycles sold world wide. America is one of their fastest growing markets.

as i said, not knocking Harley, they are very cool bikes. Just saying the world is changing. Heck, there are some 1 percent riders that have purchased the BMW K1600B Bagger.

Enough said
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:19 AM
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Read the sales reports. In 2016, BMW's US sales FELL 13%. For 2017 they don't even list USA sales separately. Clearly because they fell again. BMW was very happy to point out huge gains in France (+24%), Italy (+17%), Spain (+17.6%), the UK (+8.7%), Germany (+7.1%), and double digits growth in China and Japan. But curiously, they left the US performance out of their latest report.

The R series accounts for over 53% of their units sold, the S bikes do another 25% or so. There are very few K bikes sold. According to BMW's own numbers, all four K bikes combined accounted for 4% of their overall units sold worldwide.

In prior years BMW has sold about 10% in the USA, and 90% outside the USA. In 2017 they sold a grand total of 6700-ish K1600s worldwide. That would imply somewhere around 670 in the USA. Or about how many Harley touring bikes are sold each weekend.

For the 2018 model year BMW shipped around 11,000 of it's low-cost G310 bikes. The introduction of the little 310cc models accounts for about half all their unit sales increases, and the # of 310s is also about the same # of bikes as all their product lines combined sold in the USA.

Which all points to BMW having a tiny, miniscule market share in Harley's market segment. They're just not a serious competitor in the big touring bike market. Their sales are boxer twin adventure bikes, sport bikes, and little G310 models.

That's what BMW themselves report.

They haven't reported calendar year 2018 results yet, that will probably happen in the next couple of weeks so we might get a more current picture then.


Last edited by FatBob2018; 01-14-2019 at 01:33 AM.
Old 01-14-2019, 09:45 AM
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I agree 100%, 30K for a bike that has a 110 mile range, just a toy for the rich and famous which leaves me out.

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