https://www.outsideonline.com/2385526/why-harleys-new-electric-motorcycle-costs-30000

 

Thanks for posting that link, it spells out the reasons and Harley's approach very well. Like I said, it's a limited production Halo project, not intended for mass adoption, and it will be followed by mass market bikes, including electric bicycles.

I was thinking about this the other day, of how many people are griping about the LiveWire saying "but the other companies offer more range for less", and it sounds to me like "don't buy that Hemingway book, this other novel offers more pages and costs less!"

You can't judge a book by its cover and you can't judge a bike by a press release. Later this year they'll be available and then we can experience it and make informed decisions.

 

I disagree with that, Harley will succeed when they make money off of electric vehicles (scooters, e-bikes and motorcycles)

Because even though I want a LiveWire, I can't afford one and there are some good looking alternatives on the horizon that I probably can afford.

 

This, exactly:

In another post, I suggested H-D's market research indicates (i) potential customers are warm to an electric motorcycle in theory, but technological limitations of range and charging time, and the currently primitive charging infrastructure, make them unlikely to pull the trigger on any electric motorcycle in practice, at _any_ plausible price; but (ii) there is a lot of _goodwill_ to be gained by being _in_ the electric motorcycle market, now, with a real, for-sale bike and not merely a concept bike, but not a lot of _profit_ to be gained from trying to move large numbers of electric motorcycles.

This is H-D positioning itself for a market that is coming, but whose time has not yet come.

 

I totally agree with you! At the end of the day business is business so the more you can sell the betterit is. Sales give a project stability and funds to keep pushing researches for innovations.
I hope for HD that all their calculations and market studies will work just fine and for them to drop prices in a couple of years to make their EV available for more pockets.

I always stress that a lot of places around the world do not have a lot of recharge stations available. Here in Italy buying a Tesla is an issue because there are few places to charge them. Northern Europe is a whole other story, problem is that in northern europe a sportster cost 20k... I am not even kidding, after a Novegian customer told me so i went on HD norvegian to check if maybe us, being italian an norvegian, messed up the conversation talking huge numbers. He was right. So i wonder how much a livewire would cost in norway.
So, right now the situation here is at a pont were:

- southern countries have not enough electric station and the price of this bike is 30k
- a grey area in germany and central europe (i guess. saw a lot of tesla there in the summer, but in the area i was there were few electric stations... more than in italy and france for sure)
- northern europe with a lot of electric stations but bike prices are very high

This is, of course, my experience. Any other european has witnessed better charging stations availability?

 

I don't expect the LiveWire's price to ever come down. I think they're trying to position it basically as their version of, say, the Porsche 911. It'll always be expensive, they'll just improve it over the years.

Harley will have an entirely different lineup of inexpensive bikes, medium-priced bikes, even electric bicycles available to serve the lower-cost market segments.

I'm not European and so cannot answer for Europe, but in America it appears that Harley is effectively building their own charging network; every Harley dealer that sells the LiveWire will also have a charging station. I would presume that the same situation will apply to Europe. Not that you necessarily want to stop by Harley dealers every time you need a charge when you're out and about, but -- I'm sure Harley sees it as a business opportunity; the more frequently they can get rich customers into their dealerships, the more chances they have to make sales, so having charging stations at the dealerships is a way to get rich LiveWire customers back into the dealerships more frequently.

 

I don't know how much HD will be serving lower cost segments, if they are anything like Ducati, another "Premium" motorcycle brand, Ducati just release an electric Mountain Bike in Europe. Price is $7,600.

Interesting point about getting rich people in the dealerships, I wonder if that is the reason for the Livewire to charge at the Level I rate even on Level II chargers?

Get the Livewire owners to the dealerships for the really fast Level III DC chargers (instead of the commonly available Level II fast chargers that are in most public places right now), while the customer waits 30 minutes for a charge they buy more T-Shirts and assless chaps.

 

I know, but I simply don't believe that's Harley's plan. As a simple example, I've always had Japanese bikes. My first Harley was a 2015 Street 750. I bought it new, for $4499. I think their current cheapest bike is the Street 500 at an MSRP of $6,899, less than Ducati's mountain bike.

Harley has said repeatedly that they need to get young riders and Millennials on bikes. They know that those folks don't have $20,000 to spend on a Softail or $30,000 on a LiveWire. When they announced the LiveWire, it seems like everyone glossed over that they also showed pics of a bunch of electric bikes, and they're aiming them at all price brackets. Heck, they're talking about having mini-Harley stores, boutique stores, carrying electric bikes and electric motorcycles for the urban Millennial. What you've always seen from Harley is not necessarily what they will be doing in the future. Heck, I wonder how many people here have ever seen a Harley Topper, a *scooter* they made for a few years...

I don't know, but they better have a good reason because that's a real head-scratcher there as to why they don't support proper Level II charging...

That was along the lines of what I was thinking, yes, although I hadn't tied it into the lack of Level II... but yes, get folks with dough in the dealerships and keep them engaged and excited about their newfound brand, and who knows how much they'll spend.

 

Here nothing happened so far. At least in Rome... I have also booked for a test ride but haven't received any feedback yet. I really wanna try it and see how it delivers torque and how it handles. Super curious about it

Exactly what i was thinking. I mean 7 and a half grands for an electric bicycle... I wouldn't buy one even if i had money to throw out the window.