Street Fighter New V Twin in the Pan , Street, Custom
#21
03-04-2019, 06:49 PM
I think the real reason HD doesn't bother with the horsepower wars is much simpler than most "real bikers" on here realize. It's very simple to get a bunch of horsepower from any engine - the real problem is building and selling a bike people actually want to ride. This is something the squids never understand either - while they're out there popping wheelies, going way over the speed limit and risking their lives and licenses at every turn - with their fingers covering their brake levers and their eyes scanning the horizon with their nerves on full alert - the HD rider is out there cruiser the road with his SO enjoying the weather, the scenery, the smells, and wondering if they should take the long way home.
The funny thing is this "argument" about horsepower has been going on for my entire life - literally - since I was a kid, I can still remember people talking about the jap bikes and how much faster they are, blah blah. And yet... who is the most successful large displacement motorcycle builder? Oh, that's right - HD. lol... Is there a place in the world for the GSXRs and such? Of course, some people like them - and then they graduate high school and move out on their own, and learn real quick that getting a speeding ticket for 125 mph in a 70mph zone has real, long term, serious, financial implications. They also learn that women - not girls - like to feel safe when they put their lives into the hands of the person driving the bike they've just gotten on AND like to actually be comfortable. Not to mention, most women get cold when temperature goes down by 1 degree and get too hot when it goes up by 1 degree lol...
There is a reason HD is so successful that so many "smart people" who have - for my entire life - been predicting HD will go out of business "this year" because they won't make a bike with more horsepower than the jap bikes. There is also a reason HD has put so much engineering into understanding the sound of their engines, the size of their control interfaces, the weight of their bikes, and the clean lines of the styling even while incorporating modern advances like ABS and cruise.
And I haven't even gotten into all the little things like how the customer service affects brand loyalty, or how the dealers promoting the social networking, charity causes, or things like the aftermarket all play into it either.
In all reality - horsepower is actually the least important thing they need to worry about - right after price. Which is the other thing the "experts" have been using to predict the end of HD "this year" since I was a kid. LOL..
It's actually kind of funny how circular the comments and the predictions are - and a reason why Marketing is an actual career choice for some people.
The funny thing is this "argument" about horsepower has been going on for my entire life - literally - since I was a kid, I can still remember people talking about the jap bikes and how much faster they are, blah blah. And yet... who is the most successful large displacement motorcycle builder? Oh, that's right - HD. lol... Is there a place in the world for the GSXRs and such? Of course, some people like them - and then they graduate high school and move out on their own, and learn real quick that getting a speeding ticket for 125 mph in a 70mph zone has real, long term, serious, financial implications. They also learn that women - not girls - like to feel safe when they put their lives into the hands of the person driving the bike they've just gotten on AND like to actually be comfortable. Not to mention, most women get cold when temperature goes down by 1 degree and get too hot when it goes up by 1 degree lol...
There is a reason HD is so successful that so many "smart people" who have - for my entire life - been predicting HD will go out of business "this year" because they won't make a bike with more horsepower than the jap bikes. There is also a reason HD has put so much engineering into understanding the sound of their engines, the size of their control interfaces, the weight of their bikes, and the clean lines of the styling even while incorporating modern advances like ABS and cruise.
And I haven't even gotten into all the little things like how the customer service affects brand loyalty, or how the dealers promoting the social networking, charity causes, or things like the aftermarket all play into it either.
In all reality - horsepower is actually the least important thing they need to worry about - right after price. Which is the other thing the "experts" have been using to predict the end of HD "this year" since I was a kid. LOL..
It's actually kind of funny how circular the comments and the predictions are - and a reason why Marketing is an actual career choice for some people.
or they know their bikes are underpowered.
Or just plain both.
Wiz 🍻
Last edited by Wizardofaus; 03-04-2019 at 08:55 PM.
#22
03-04-2019, 08:15 PM
HD EFI Guru
I think the real reason HD doesn't bother with the horsepower wars is much simpler than most "real bikers" on here realize. It's very simple to get a bunch of horsepower from any engine - the real problem is building and selling a bike people actually want to ride. This is something the squids never understand either - while they're out there popping wheelies, going way over the speed limit and risking their lives and licenses at every turn - with their fingers covering their brake levers and their eyes scanning the horizon with their nerves on full alert - the HD rider is out there cruiser the road with his SO enjoying the weather, the scenery, the smells, and wondering if they should take the long way home.
The funny thing is this "argument" about horsepower has been going on for my entire life - literally - since I was a kid, I can still remember people talking about the jap bikes and how much faster they are, blah blah. And yet... who is the most successful large displacement motorcycle builder? Oh, that's right - HD. lol... Is there a place in the world for the GSXRs and such? Of course, some people like them - and then they graduate high school and move out on their own, and learn real quick that getting a speeding ticket for 125 mph in a 70mph zone has real, long term, serious, financial implications. They also learn that women - not girls - like to feel safe when they put their lives into the hands of the person driving the bike they've just gotten on AND like to actually be comfortable. Not to mention, most women get cold when temperature goes down by 1 degree and get too hot when it goes up by 1 degree lol...
There is a reason HD is so successful that so many "smart people" who have - for my entire life - been predicting HD will go out of business "this year" because they won't make a bike with more horsepower than the jap bikes. There is also a reason HD has put so much engineering into understanding the sound of their engines, the size of their control interfaces, the weight of their bikes, and the clean lines of the styling even while incorporating modern advances like ABS and cruise.
And I haven't even gotten into all the little things like how the customer service affects brand loyalty, or how the dealers promoting the social networking, charity causes, or things like the aftermarket all play into it either.
In all reality - horsepower is actually the least important thing they need to worry about - right after price. Which is the other thing the "experts" have been using to predict the end of HD "this year" since I was a kid. LOL..
It's actually kind of funny how circular the comments and the predictions are - and a reason why Marketing is an actual career choice for some people.
The funny thing is this "argument" about horsepower has been going on for my entire life - literally - since I was a kid, I can still remember people talking about the jap bikes and how much faster they are, blah blah. And yet... who is the most successful large displacement motorcycle builder? Oh, that's right - HD. lol... Is there a place in the world for the GSXRs and such? Of course, some people like them - and then they graduate high school and move out on their own, and learn real quick that getting a speeding ticket for 125 mph in a 70mph zone has real, long term, serious, financial implications. They also learn that women - not girls - like to feel safe when they put their lives into the hands of the person driving the bike they've just gotten on AND like to actually be comfortable. Not to mention, most women get cold when temperature goes down by 1 degree and get too hot when it goes up by 1 degree lol...
There is a reason HD is so successful that so many "smart people" who have - for my entire life - been predicting HD will go out of business "this year" because they won't make a bike with more horsepower than the jap bikes. There is also a reason HD has put so much engineering into understanding the sound of their engines, the size of their control interfaces, the weight of their bikes, and the clean lines of the styling even while incorporating modern advances like ABS and cruise.
And I haven't even gotten into all the little things like how the customer service affects brand loyalty, or how the dealers promoting the social networking, charity causes, or things like the aftermarket all play into it either.
In all reality - horsepower is actually the least important thing they need to worry about - right after price. Which is the other thing the "experts" have been using to predict the end of HD "this year" since I was a kid. LOL..
It's actually kind of funny how circular the comments and the predictions are - and a reason why Marketing is an actual career choice for some people.
The following users liked this post:
LuvdemBobberz (08-23-2019)
#23
03-04-2019, 09:01 PM
Lets face it , If ya got enough coin you can have a company make something for ya to suit ya needs AKA Porsche and the V Rod
They make all the parts and you just put it together.
Wiz 🤘
Last edited by Wizardofaus; 03-04-2019 at 09:04 PM.
#24
03-04-2019, 10:01 PM
I can agree with a lot of what you've said but the part I put in bold is what really got HD out of trouble after the AMF years. It's sad that they (HD) for the last several years have lost sight of those very things. Coming to play in another market which is what they are trying to do, requires that you meet what all the others are doing at a price that is reasonably close to the others in that market have to offer. I think that power is just one of many things they need to be aware of and if you build a premium bike in that market you can typically get a premium amount dollars for it. This is where HD has to learn that the HD taxes they have been getting away with for the current product lineup isn't going to fly in these new markets. HD will be the new kid on the block and they are going to have to earn the business based on what they have to offer, not what they claim to have done in the past.
KTM 1190R - it's like 150hp
KTM 1090R - it's 100hp - yep - DOWN 50 hp!
You know the first thing people do when they buy them? Yep - put an Akropovic and a Rotty or Powercell air filter kit on it. There is no such thing as a "Harley tax" - it's simply the American need to spend every cent they can in order to keep up with the joneses. You could NEVER sell the bike people say they want because - surprise - people who have enough money to buy a $20k+ TOY - have a NEED to customize it to reflect their personality.
It's not some voodoo Harley does to confound the faithful - if it was, companies like Touratech wouldn't be in business.
#25
03-05-2019, 12:12 AM
KTM 1290R - it's like 160hp.
KTM 1190R - it's like 150hp
KTM 1090R - it's 100hp - yep - DOWN 50 hp!
You know the first thing people do when they buy them? Yep - put an Akropovic and a Rotty or Powercell air filter kit on it. There is no such thing as a "Harley tax" - it's simply the American need to spend every cent they can in order to keep up with the joneses. You could NEVER sell the bike people say they want because - surprise - people who have enough money to buy a $20k+ TOY - have a NEED to customize it to reflect their personality.
It's not some voodoo Harley does to confound the faithful - if it was, companies like Touratech wouldn't be in business.
KTM 1190R - it's like 150hp
KTM 1090R - it's 100hp - yep - DOWN 50 hp!
You know the first thing people do when they buy them? Yep - put an Akropovic and a Rotty or Powercell air filter kit on it. There is no such thing as a "Harley tax" - it's simply the American need to spend every cent they can in order to keep up with the joneses. You could NEVER sell the bike people say they want because - surprise - people who have enough money to buy a $20k+ TOY - have a NEED to customize it to reflect their personality.
It's not some voodoo Harley does to confound the faithful - if it was, companies like Touratech wouldn't be in business.
But If you take a look, at other manufactures having to play the game with the same set of rules.
They certainly got their **** together.
Wiz Out
Last edited by Wizardofaus; 03-05-2019 at 12:14 AM.
#26
03-05-2019, 09:54 PM
I for one really hope that Harley just drops the hammer with the street fighter. Forget comfort forget sensibility forget all of that... Just make something that FLAT OUT RIPS!!!! Even if it doesn't sell well it will do the brand a lot of good. Think of it as a halo product. Make it a real bike 45deg of lean, mid controls, 195 Hp power charts be dammed!!!! Just make something to silence the haters. Sport bike riders aren't the most sensible bunch anyway. So no forward controls and big rear tire. Just make one real performance machine!!!!!!
#27
03-05-2019, 10:02 PM
I for one really hope that Harley just drops the hammer with the street fighter. Forget comfort forget sensibility forget all of that... Just make something that FLAT OUT RIPS!!!! Even if it doesn't sell well it will do the brand a lot of good. Think of it as a halo product. Make it a real bike 45deg of lean, mid controls, 195 Hp power charts be dammed!!!! Just make something to silence the haters. Sport bike riders aren't the most sensible bunch anyway. So no forward controls and big rear tire. Just make one real performance machine!!!!!!
#28
03-05-2019, 10:42 PM
I for one really hope that Harley just drops the hammer with the street fighter. Forget comfort forget sensibility forget all of that... Just make something that FLAT OUT RIPS!!!! Even if it doesn't sell well it will do the brand a lot of good. Think of it as a halo product. Make it a real bike 45deg of lean, mid controls, 195 Hp power charts be dammed!!!! Just make something to silence the haters. Sport bike riders aren't the most sensible bunch anyway. So no forward controls and big rear tire. Just make one real performance machine!!!!!!
SIGN ME UP !
Wiz Out 🥃
#29
03-12-2019, 02:47 AM
Cruiser
KTM has to deal with EURO 4 compliance, which is much stricter than anything the EPA has implimented here. So I'm not really sure what you're on about.
#30
03-12-2019, 02:57 AM