I can't expose myself like I wish I could and I've only tested my 2017 RK.

I've spent years tuning ice ( internal combustion engine ) and other petroleum based power sources. And have access to some pretty high tech testing equipment. I'm not a lab rat nor do I have a college degree. Just work and a good understanding of the physics of combustion.

By EPA standards, specs, rules and grey area of law. My M8 is so lean from the factory it has a NOX issue. Now the uber greenie weenies want a smaller carbon foot print but we can't have NOX. The bike is so lean that it is starving the cats in anything but full throttle hard roll ons. I have not red lined the bike. At 360 miles it's still only seen 4k rpm max. But it has been grunted from a standing start to gear to gear grunts and steady state.

I've ran these test in static mode and back packed and saddle bagged the test equipment running down the road from 35f to 70f. And I can tell you when summer hits the numbers will only get worse.

From what I've seen even faking the OEM motor into rick states of tune through very primitive intake fuel rich states. The cats get more efficient. Thus NOX goes down and so does the over all carbon foot print.

I honestly don't think Harley can take your engine warranty because of mods as long as you run the OEM head pipe. Will the OEM head pipe limit you? You better believe it will in your ultimate output.

I wish I could write a white paper as good as I read them. There is some stinkim concerning Harley and the EPA.

 

wonder if me sticking with the stock intake on my stage 1 calibration and SE slip-ons will take it a little south of 'overly lean'..I run my 107 4500-5K every trip out at some point and it runs like a scalded dog..be interesting to hear Steve Cole's response..could have swore he did lots of testing that concluded the M8 engines run rich in Open Loop and prefer it that way, incrementally leaning it out to try to produce performance gains resulted in none

 

Huh??

 

Not sure how you can say the HD has an NOX issue..

The problems with running stoic is that the fuel burns slower. Burning slower means you need to figure out what to do with the heat after all the work has been done driving the piston down.. I guess we'll see how well the oil cooled heads work when summer comes.. If you like to sit in traffic, buy head fans..

 

Open Loop is one thing. Closed Loop is the Harbanger. Our M8's like all modern engines start up cold in open loop. IE the choke mode like the old days. Once they are hotted up they go close loop just like your car or truck. Mine go way, way rich in cold state / open loop. But honestly if I were to turn the M8 into a race motor it would hold a AF ratio about 75% of what I've seen of my motor in open loop. When it warms up and goes closed loop it does a 180. I can see open loop and closed loop not only in my testing on epa cert hardware but alo in rigged up canbus commerial retail junk meters. I've patched out my scangageII and it shows me basics most don't see...

 

You clearly do not understand NOX and petro combustion. Nox is the enemy epa wise of uber eff. combustion. I could take my Civic Hybrid up until the last flash update and drive it right just out of hypermiler speeds and get 80 mpg all day long out of it with the help of a Atkins Cycle and all sorts of mechanical and control tricks of which Harley hasn't a clue about much less specing a timing chain right. Or basic 1990's cam control. So what does that leave them with? Your st control which is a no brainier and basic ignition control at a pre WWII level. I own a vintage modern motorcycle powered by a advanced lawn mower engine..... lololololo

What Harley is doing is putting a ton of egg into there cats. Cats are amazing devices! But they can be over done. And over done is what MoCo has done.

My testing looks at the tail pipe emissions, exhaust temps where ever I place a sensor. Along with the intake temps, volumes and velocity. And diff across the filter media. with a look into the manifold velocity's and fuel metering bandwidth. Harley is getting there numbers from bad cat design ment to kiss the epa's ***.

Harleys Cat design is what Yamaha should have used in my Yamaha RZ350 OEM pipe design. The USA spec RZ350 2 stroke had cats built into the pipes. Only USA 2 stroke to ever have such BS in the world. All to make the cali dick suckers happy.

 

yeah, I don't know about all that..I just ride em', service em' and enjoy em' like I always have...never had any engine problems but have had a bunch of Harleys that all ran great, tons of trips with friends, miles and too many smiles, good times and memories to count :-) life's too short to go all analysis paralysis on this stuff

 

It's simple 000's and 111's. Did you know our sharing on this board is about 100k times more complex than the tune on our vintage modern motorcycles? And the cpu power needed to control our vintage modern post WWII motorcycles is one tenth of 1% of what was needed to land on the moon. Believe me I'm smiling hard when I ride my M8. But I know I'm a beta tester. I know I can spend more money per cc on the old slugger motor than it's worth for hp and tq. And I also know the MoCo is lying to you , me and the EPA.

 

Just my opinion. But this is the post of the year so far. I am getting too old to waste time overthinking stuff. Or to even care. The rest of you folks can enjoy the excellent info provided by the OP.

 

News flash the 107 M8 runs just fine. Invent all the problems you want .Won't change fact. But of course everyone knows more than those that designed it.
Building tuning changing is part of owning a Harley but not necessary.