Voiding warranty
#21
04-16-2017, 11:10 AM
Road Master
HD seems to think so;
"You must recalibrate the ECM when installing this kit. Failure to properly recalibrate the ECM can result in severe engine damage. "
some here don't believe it's necessary, let your conscience be your guide..I'm not one to 2nd guess the manufacturer on this one
"You must recalibrate the ECM when installing this kit. Failure to properly recalibrate the ECM can result in severe engine damage. "
some here don't believe it's necessary, let your conscience be your guide..I'm not one to 2nd guess the manufacturer on this one
#22
04-26-2017, 04:38 PM
"Misinformed"?? Mmmm, I think a better word here might have been "mis-led", and I believe purposefully so, because most of the HD dealers are now peddling (fear-mongering) this stuff, this whole "voided warranty" drivel nationwide, including dealers right in 'IdahoHacker's' own backyard (i.e., High Desert HD, Lone Wolf HD, and others).
As a recent buyer of a new 2017, I know, because I myself, and my two adult sons (both with 2016 models), have personally heard their threatening rhetoric on this subject, multiple times, in multiple western states. The MoCo knows 'exactly' what they're doing with this entire scare campaign, but unfortunately, its not going to change, until someone who has been victimized by it, takes a serious run at 'em, and sooner or later, it'll happen.
As a recent buyer of a new 2017, I know, because I myself, and my two adult sons (both with 2016 models), have personally heard their threatening rhetoric on this subject, multiple times, in multiple western states. The MoCo knows 'exactly' what they're doing with this entire scare campaign, but unfortunately, its not going to change, until someone who has been victimized by it, takes a serious run at 'em, and sooner or later, it'll happen.
#23
04-26-2017, 09:32 PM
Road Warrior
"Misinformed"?? Mmmm, I think a better word here might have been "mis-led", and I believe purposefully so, because most of the HD dealers are now peddling (fear-mongering) this stuff, this whole "voided warranty" drivel nationwide, including dealers right in 'IdahoHacker's' own backyard (i.e., High Desert HD, Lone Wolf HD, and others).
As a recent buyer of a new 2017, I know, because I myself, and my two adult sons (both with 2016 models), have personally heard their threatening rhetoric on this subject, multiple times, in multiple western states. The MoCo knows 'exactly' what they're doing with this entire scare campaign, but unfortunately, its not going to change, until someone who has been victimized by it, takes a serious run at 'em, and sooner or later, it'll happen.
As a recent buyer of a new 2017, I know, because I myself, and my two adult sons (both with 2016 models), have personally heard their threatening rhetoric on this subject, multiple times, in multiple western states. The MoCo knows 'exactly' what they're doing with this entire scare campaign, but unfortunately, its not going to change, until someone who has been victimized by it, takes a serious run at 'em, and sooner or later, it'll happen.
#24
04-26-2017, 09:41 PM
Road Master
So I am questioning the use of only a HD tuner..is it impossible to stay within EPA guidelines with a non-harley tuner? To me the EPA just wants the result of the motorcycle staying within a set emissions parameter? or is it more than that?
This judgement really smells...So why is it that the MoCo was forced to buy back all super tuners that were unsold, yet not buy back tuners from end users (customers)?
Also "No later than December 31, 2016, Defendants shall ensure that their
warranty policies and product literature state that Defendants will deny
warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any
Harley-Davidson vehicle, Model Year 2017 or later, that was tuned using
a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive
Order, or otherwise approved by EPA"
Directing that an entire powertrain warranty is voided for use of a tuner? WTH is that? Who really wrote this?
This judgement really smells...So why is it that the MoCo was forced to buy back all super tuners that were unsold, yet not buy back tuners from end users (customers)?
Also "No later than December 31, 2016, Defendants shall ensure that their
warranty policies and product literature state that Defendants will deny
warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any
Harley-Davidson vehicle, Model Year 2017 or later, that was tuned using
a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive
Order, or otherwise approved by EPA"
Directing that an entire powertrain warranty is voided for use of a tuner? WTH is that? Who really wrote this?
Last edited by mastergunnera8; 04-26-2017 at 09:58 PM.
#25
04-26-2017, 09:43 PM
Dam! What a drag, but when and if that happens to me, or either of my sons, they'll get a Summons, plain and simple. An FP3 has zip to do with a failed oil pump, and I don't intend to play with them.
#26
04-26-2017, 09:56 PM
Road Warrior
It's not over with by any means. I have time now. The bike is being repaired by the dealer so I'm told.
#27
04-26-2017, 10:04 PM
Best of luck with it. Push come to shove, I gotta believe they'll cave on it at some point, and by definition, your warranty is a 'contract', leaving them obligated for all legal expenses including yours should you prevail.
#28
04-27-2017, 06:01 AM
Banned
My guess, HD is working to figure out how to handle these cases within the CONSENT DECREE, using a previous federal statute. Voiding the Full MFG powertrain warranty on any bike, for a known MFG defect (because of a FP3 that didn't cause the fail) is just not good business, possibly not legal? and I am sure they know that . If not, it's just a matter of time before we hear of a law suit sorting this out for them.
The following users liked this post:
SS Twin (05-03-2017)
#29
04-27-2017, 06:29 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Don't understand this "anything but Harley" products such as exhaust,air cleaner ,or tuner voids your warranty on 17 models.
Harley got popped for selling and installing non EPA compliant Tuners and such..I didn't..
Dont understand why they would have a problem with parts that I buy somewhere else and put on myself...there is clearly no liability pointing back to them.
Some people say it's all about money..but I see that coming around and kicking them in the *** .
I'd like to get a FP3 to go along with the stage 2 Harley torque cams but that doesn't mean that I'm going to settle for a POS Harley Tuner to save my warranty..I'll just go without any tuner..and I'll skip the stage 2 cams also..and anything else they sell such as a big bore kits ect..
I'm also aware of the Magneson Moss law but really don't feel like going that route over a Bike..
Next time I see the GM I'll have a sitdown with him and see what he says..he's been solid with me in the past over the BS "Mandatory" 1000 mile service by Harley or your warranty is Void..so to sell a big bore kit and some cams or anything else at his parts counter maybe he'll give the FP3 a pass.
I just don't like it when people try to run that fear.."or else" tactic on me.
Harley got popped for selling and installing non EPA compliant Tuners and such..I didn't..
Dont understand why they would have a problem with parts that I buy somewhere else and put on myself...there is clearly no liability pointing back to them.
Some people say it's all about money..but I see that coming around and kicking them in the *** .
I'd like to get a FP3 to go along with the stage 2 Harley torque cams but that doesn't mean that I'm going to settle for a POS Harley Tuner to save my warranty..I'll just go without any tuner..and I'll skip the stage 2 cams also..and anything else they sell such as a big bore kits ect..
I'm also aware of the Magneson Moss law but really don't feel like going that route over a Bike..
Next time I see the GM I'll have a sitdown with him and see what he says..he's been solid with me in the past over the BS "Mandatory" 1000 mile service by Harley or your warranty is Void..so to sell a big bore kit and some cams or anything else at his parts counter maybe he'll give the FP3 a pass.
I just don't like it when people try to run that fear.."or else" tactic on me.
Go buy a new Camaro and put on an after market exhaust with no cats and then take it to the dealer for warranty engine work and see what happens.
It is fully up to you as the car or bike owner to change out what you want but as with everything in life there are consequences for your actions.
Why do you think most aftermarket hi perf parts are labeled for Off road use only?
The following users liked this post:
SS Twin (05-03-2017)
#30
04-27-2017, 06:54 AM
The EPA and CA mainly has for some time been picking and choosing companies/products to go after. They hit Dynojet big time forced changes to the tuner and collected cash. Few years back they slapped JJ ran his tail out of CA.
You can stamp your feet all you want. The EPA and CA have gotten way to much power and they will use it. Like it of not, they laid down new rules and if you don't follow it kiss your warranty good by. It is not Harley doing it, has been forced on them.
Election have consequences, you are just feeling more and more of them.
For a long time we got away with a lot of loop holes. So called race only, 1 off ect. The EPA turned a blind eye to some of it. CA in it's power grab has been stepping up enforcement and making it hurt. Put the blame where it belongs.
You can stamp your feet all you want. The EPA and CA have gotten way to much power and they will use it. Like it of not, they laid down new rules and if you don't follow it kiss your warranty good by. It is not Harley doing it, has been forced on them.
Election have consequences, you are just feeling more and more of them.
For a long time we got away with a lot of loop holes. So called race only, 1 off ect. The EPA turned a blind eye to some of it. CA in it's power grab has been stepping up enforcement and making it hurt. Put the blame where it belongs.