Things could be worse, you could be an Indian owner
#11
09-18-2017, 10:32 AM
Grand HDF Member
I've posted MY thoughts frequently on topics related to Harley, how they do business and their technology. Sure we can find issues and difficulties and varying opinions in every forum or media outlet.
Water cooled bikes have been around for the past 15 years. The ENTIRE engine water cooled. Harley is just starting to realize water cooled engines.
The 107, 114 and 117 .. 1753, 1863, 1917 cc respectively, have also been around for some time.
The new suspension and frames Harley is raving about is also old school and have been used on Yamahas medium size cruisers for some time.
There is really no big "technological breakthrough" in the very recent Harley designs at all.
These few points alone show that its a smoke and mirror game driven by marketing .. and some are drinking the cool aid. These features and technologies arent new. Quite the contrary .. Harley is catching up. They ARE new to Harley ... as usually I do not intend to bash ... these are FACTS.
So in short, I dont think any other manufacturer or specific brand lover needs to be worried about what Harley is putting out and the implications of competition. What we have here is perception with possibly a lack or misunderstanding of whats presented.
Good reads though !
Water cooled bikes have been around for the past 15 years. The ENTIRE engine water cooled. Harley is just starting to realize water cooled engines.
The 107, 114 and 117 .. 1753, 1863, 1917 cc respectively, have also been around for some time.
The new suspension and frames Harley is raving about is also old school and have been used on Yamahas medium size cruisers for some time.
There is really no big "technological breakthrough" in the very recent Harley designs at all.
These few points alone show that its a smoke and mirror game driven by marketing .. and some are drinking the cool aid. These features and technologies arent new. Quite the contrary .. Harley is catching up. They ARE new to Harley ... as usually I do not intend to bash ... these are FACTS.
So in short, I dont think any other manufacturer or specific brand lover needs to be worried about what Harley is putting out and the implications of competition. What we have here is perception with possibly a lack or misunderstanding of whats presented.
Good reads though !
I hope Indian finds a way to step up and keep the ball rolling.
Last edited by Thingfish; 09-18-2017 at 10:33 AM.
The following users liked this post:
hdtucson (09-18-2017)
#12
09-18-2017, 10:38 AM
Supporter
#13
09-18-2017, 10:49 AM
The hand controls sucked, the tail light was ugly but other than that, a pretty damn good bike when compared to an HD. Once Indian took over, the whole thing fell to ****. I think Victory will make a return.
If someone had the cash and could buy the name, trademarks, jigs and components I think they could seriously compete with HD but I doubt Polaris would ever be willing to let go it.
Polaris simply went to Indian because of the name, not because of the bike.
#14
09-18-2017, 11:00 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Polaris needs to up their game. They presented their 2018 model lineup at the end of July and only now are they trickling in to dealerships and I do mean trickling. At least Harley got theirs on the showroom quickly and into customer's hands fast.
Not sure about the 111 thunderstroke, haven't read much bad about it. Still for me the best twins technically are all from overseas, my two favorites being BMW and Ducati.
Not sure about the 111 thunderstroke, haven't read much bad about it. Still for me the best twins technically are all from overseas, my two favorites being BMW and Ducati.
#15
09-18-2017, 11:45 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
I totally agree. You got a lot more bang for the buck in a Vic too. The stock stereo is fantastic. good suspension and quite frankly, an all around better looking bike than an indian.
The hand controls sucked, the tail light was ugly but other than that, a pretty damn good bike when compared to an HD. Once Indian took over, the whole thing fell to ****. I think Victory will make a return.
If someone had the cash and could buy the name, trademarks, jigs and components I think they could seriously compete with HD but I doubt Polaris would ever be willing to let go it.
Polaris simply went to Indian because of the name, not because of the bike.
The hand controls sucked, the tail light was ugly but other than that, a pretty damn good bike when compared to an HD. Once Indian took over, the whole thing fell to ****. I think Victory will make a return.
If someone had the cash and could buy the name, trademarks, jigs and components I think they could seriously compete with HD but I doubt Polaris would ever be willing to let go it.
Polaris simply went to Indian because of the name, not because of the bike.
Exactly!
#16
09-18-2017, 12:02 PM
Tourer
Victory's are okay, I have a 2016 Magnum X1 and was pretty darn happy with it, till I rode a 2017 RKS and then it was all over. Bought the Road King Special and now barely ride the Vic. When I read guys on this board bitch about heat, well go ride a Vic! It will roast your right thigh off in the summer months at slower speeds.
The 106 is a good motor, but does not pull anywhere near as good (especially down low) as the 107 does and my X1 is modified and dyno tuned.
Now it is super comfortable, stereo is pretty kick *** stock but I would rather ride my RKS anyday. The Vic's have some serious buffeting, but that was cured by some fork mounted deflectors.
Polaris sucks. Vic dealers are (were) far and few in between. Easy decision for me, the 107 in the Road King chassis is a great bike and my favorite hands down. My Vic will remain a low mileage garage queen that will see limited duty for around home rides. Long trips? RKS all the way---
The 106 is a good motor, but does not pull anywhere near as good (especially down low) as the 107 does and my X1 is modified and dyno tuned.
Now it is super comfortable, stereo is pretty kick *** stock but I would rather ride my RKS anyday. The Vic's have some serious buffeting, but that was cured by some fork mounted deflectors.
Polaris sucks. Vic dealers are (were) far and few in between. Easy decision for me, the 107 in the Road King chassis is a great bike and my favorite hands down. My Vic will remain a low mileage garage queen that will see limited duty for around home rides. Long trips? RKS all the way---
#18
09-18-2017, 12:08 PM
#19
09-18-2017, 12:12 PM
Road Warrior
HUSKYDAVIDSON SAID: ↑
The Traditional engine is Harley Davidson..
The M8 is just a Band Aid?
The 111 is already obsolete.. a heat producing monster..
I guess your suggesting that Indian will just "can" the 111 and go directly to water cool?
The VIctory was set to fail EPA, I heard that was one of the deciding factors in ending the brand.
I'd say HD is pulling out all the stops to keep the "Air Cooled V-Twin" alive.. And make more smooth power at the same time..
I'd say HD is right on track..
Somebody sure has drank lots of HD cool aid...
"The traditional engine is HD"? Check the history, "Indian" developed the first V-Twin.
This is the response to the above statement......
"The 111 is already obsolete, after 4 years"? ... The Twin Cam 88's been around since 99, that's 18 years, who's obsolete. The band-aid M8 is still 45 deg, pressed crank, split rods, that's 50's technology. M8 has also reduced their cost by using parent metal bearing surfaces, hidden radiator and adding more leaking points. Don't forget about the leaking primary's to the engine.
Yea, "Pulling out all the stops to keep the air cooled V-Twin alive". Wet heads that leak since day 1, chain tensioners that blow up the engine when they wear out at 30k, oil pumps that fail and burn up engines and all the many, many other re-calls that originate from **** poor engineering.
The best engine that HD has is the V-Rod and they didn't design it. Lets talk about how they have owned the flat track for years until Indian came along.
Maybe you should go back to the HD forums, they have more HD cool-aid there.
Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
This was an interesting exchange on one of their forums.....
http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/thr....181473/page-4
The Traditional engine is Harley Davidson..
The M8 is just a Band Aid?
The 111 is already obsolete.. a heat producing monster..
I guess your suggesting that Indian will just "can" the 111 and go directly to water cool?
The VIctory was set to fail EPA, I heard that was one of the deciding factors in ending the brand.
I'd say HD is pulling out all the stops to keep the "Air Cooled V-Twin" alive.. And make more smooth power at the same time..
I'd say HD is right on track..
Somebody sure has drank lots of HD cool aid...
"The traditional engine is HD"? Check the history, "Indian" developed the first V-Twin.
This is the response to the above statement......
"The 111 is already obsolete, after 4 years"? ... The Twin Cam 88's been around since 99, that's 18 years, who's obsolete. The band-aid M8 is still 45 deg, pressed crank, split rods, that's 50's technology. M8 has also reduced their cost by using parent metal bearing surfaces, hidden radiator and adding more leaking points. Don't forget about the leaking primary's to the engine.
Yea, "Pulling out all the stops to keep the air cooled V-Twin alive". Wet heads that leak since day 1, chain tensioners that blow up the engine when they wear out at 30k, oil pumps that fail and burn up engines and all the many, many other re-calls that originate from **** poor engineering.
The best engine that HD has is the V-Rod and they didn't design it. Lets talk about how they have owned the flat track for years until Indian came along.
Maybe you should go back to the HD forums, they have more HD cool-aid there.
Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
This was an interesting exchange on one of their forums.....
http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/thr....181473/page-4
#20
09-18-2017, 12:21 PM
Tourer
If it is like the Vic, it goes up to 200 for the guys that select KPM. You can select either MPH or KPH on the Polaris speedo's. That's why it is bold only up to 120--