Let’s hear from folks that have done 114 to 117 stage three on 2018 M8
#21
01-20-2018, 08:08 PM
Cooky between the 107 to 114 and the 114 to 117 you get much more bang for your buck increasing seven cubic inches than just three. Almost a 40% power gain. Don’t believe HD’s posted dyno graphs. They are not accurate. I get a big change starting at 3000 rpm all the way to redline which I do not go too often.
#22
01-20-2018, 08:12 PM
Banned
Cooky between the 107 to 114 and the 114 to 117 you get much more bang for your buck increasing seven cubic inches than just three. Almost a 40% power gain. Don’t believe HD’s posted dyno graphs. They are not accurate. I get a big change starting at 3000 rpm all the way to redline which I do not go too often.
I just like the low down these things have stock ,coming out of a tight bend at something like 1800 revs in 3rd and not needing to downshift is awesome , I don't want to lose that ever.
#23
01-20-2018, 08:15 PM
Yea I get that , it's just the header is about 114 to 117 I don't know how specific you wanted to be.
I just like the low down these things have stock ,coming out of a tight bend at something like 1800 revs in 3rd and not needing to downshift is awesome , I don't want to lose that ever.
I just like the low down these things have stock ,coming out of a tight bend at something like 1800 revs in 3rd and not needing to downshift is awesome , I don't want to lose that ever.
Believe me you will not lose a thing. As a mater of fact a stage three 114 or 117 is actually stronger than their stock equivalents.
#25
01-20-2018, 08:59 PM
#26
01-21-2018, 06:22 PM
Grand HDF Member
I just like the low down these things have stock ,coming out of a tight bend at something like 1800 revs in 3rd and not needing to downshift is awesome , I don't want to lose that ever.
Don’t believe HD’s posted dyno graphs. They are not accurate. I get a big change starting at 3000 rpm all the way to redline which I do not go too often
It's a whole different story for a 107 bike. In a 107, Stage III slays all forms of stock, Stage I, and Stage II at all RPMs, and it shows substantially more power than even a Stage IV up until about 4400 RPM. If I had a 107, I'd go Stage III no doubt.
#27
01-21-2018, 06:30 PM
If the Harley charts are to be believed, the Stage III is a much bigger upgrade on a 107. The torque increase as compared to a stock bike is huge, you'd probably love it.
Harley's charts for the 117ci Stage III kit from a 114 does indeed show that the power (especially the torque) increases notably starting at as low as 3000 RPM, and stays much stronger than a stock bike all the way through redline, exactly as you report. I think you're perhaps misunderstanding what I was saying. The Stage III is a big improvement over stock, everywhere in the rev range, of that there is no doubt. What I was saying is the Stage III doesn't surpass a Stage II Torque Cam bike until 4000 RPM.and its curve mirrors the Stage II Power cam. Stage II Torque gives a mildly bigger boost under 4000 RPM than Stage III does, and stage III dominates Stage II torque from 4000+. Both are much better than a stock bike.
It's a whole different story for a 107 bike. In a 107, Stage III slays all forms of stock, Stage I, and Stage II at all RPMs, and it shows substantially more power than even a Stage IV up until about 4400 RPM. If I had a 107, I'd go Stage III no doubt.
Harley's charts for the 117ci Stage III kit from a 114 does indeed show that the power (especially the torque) increases notably starting at as low as 3000 RPM, and stays much stronger than a stock bike all the way through redline, exactly as you report. I think you're perhaps misunderstanding what I was saying. The Stage III is a big improvement over stock, everywhere in the rev range, of that there is no doubt. What I was saying is the Stage III doesn't surpass a Stage II Torque Cam bike until 4000 RPM.and its curve mirrors the Stage II Power cam. Stage II Torque gives a mildly bigger boost under 4000 RPM than Stage III does, and stage III dominates Stage II torque from 4000+. Both are much better than a stock bike.
It's a whole different story for a 107 bike. In a 107, Stage III slays all forms of stock, Stage I, and Stage II at all RPMs, and it shows substantially more power than even a Stage IV up until about 4400 RPM. If I had a 107, I'd go Stage III no doubt.
Don’t believe those HD charts. They are far from accurate. The stage three kicks in after about 2500 rpm and by the time you hit 3500 you are holding on for dear life. This continues all the way to 5000 rpm. The 107 to 114 does have more bang for the buck since your increasing by 7 cubes instead of just three. Now let’s get realistic. Is this additional power streetable. You get some low end grunt, you downshift much less often and passing is just a throttle twist. However, I have found except for the low end grunt and ease of passing all this extra power is not used that much at least by me. I do not cruise at 80 or 90 on the freeway, or anywhere else for that matter, so the higher revs are not utilized much by me. All in all streetable power is simply not that accessible with a stage three or four. A simple cam change is probably all I needed but I wanted go with extra cubes. Is it fun? Hell yes, is it frequently useable power...not really. If you drag race or travel at high speeds this power increase would most likely be much more usable. If you ride frequently two up you will enjoy the extra power. I don’t ever ride two up so again not a bonus for me. I thought long and hard about a cam change or a cube increase. I decided I would rather have a cube increase. Having ridden on bikes with both you get soMuch more with a cube increase but you must decide how you ride and how much of this power for you is actually streetable.
Last edited by BigRed117; 01-21-2018 at 06:53 PM.
#28
01-21-2018, 07:32 PM
Grand HDF Member
They seem accurate to me, based on comparing them against actual dyno tunes that have been done (when I can find a like-for-like).
The stage three kicks in after about 2500 rpm and by the time you hit 3500 you are holding on for dear life.
I think your perception of Stage III, and my perception of Stage II TQ, is going to differ from the touring guys. You have a Softail, right? Our bikes are 140 to 260 pounds lighter. Someone getting this done on a heavy Ultra or Road Glide probably won't experience the same degree of holding on for dear life. These (comparatively) light bikes, with M8 torque, with a Stage II or Stage III, are pretty dang fun.
This continues all the way to 5000 rpm.
However, I have found except for the low end grunt and ease of passing all this extra power is not used that much at least by me. I do not cruise at 80 or 90 on the freeway, or anywhere else for that matter, so the higher revs are not utilized much by me.
I thought long and hard about a cam change or a cube increase. I decided I would rather have a cube increase. Having ridden on bikes with both you get soMuch more with a cube increase but you must decide how you ride and how much of this power for you is actually streetable.
[I went through the same process, and that's how I settled on the Stage II Torque. I thought 50cc just wasn't enough of a boost. If they were making a 10-cube increase up to 124, then yeah, I'd be all over that. For the 107 guys, Stage III looks like to be the no-brainer all-around performance king, much more usable power than Stage IV.
Yesterday the roads were *very slightly* misty, and barrelling out of a corner I grabbed a handful of throttle and found the back end starting to slide out from under me. Exhilirating, sure, but also -- yeah, I think the power it has now is plenty for the street.
Last edited by FatBob2018; 01-21-2018 at 07:35 PM.
#29
01-21-2018, 07:51 PM
They seem accurate to me, based on comparing them against actual dyno tunes that have been done (when I can find a like-for-like).
I do not doubt this. That is pretty much how I describe the Stage II torque cam. It is utterly enormous fun to blast out of corners in 3rd gear and roll on into the straightaways!
I think your perception of Stage III, and my perception of Stage II TQ, is going to differ from the touring guys. You have a Softail, right? Our bikes are 140 to 260 pounds lighter. Someone getting this done on a heavy Ultra or Road Glide probably won't experience the same degree of holding on for dear life. These (comparatively) light bikes, with M8 torque, with a Stage II or Stage III, are pretty dang fun.
Your 117 Stage III does so more aggressively than my 114 Stage II, that is unquestionable.
Which is the dilemma I faced when choosing the Torque or HP cam, and your reasoning is exactly why I went with the Torque cam. I have no doubt you'd smoke me in an all-out, flat-out 1/4 mile drag race. But the torque cam represented the biggest power increase in the most-used driving range (under 4000), and that's what I wanted. It's a nice bonus that it gives an overall power increase all the way to redline as well. Not as much of an increase as Stage III does, but it's still quite a bit stronger than a stock bike (25% more HP at redline).
[I went through the same process, and that's how I settled on the Stage II Torque. I thought 50cc just wasn't enough of a boost. If they were making a 10-cube increase up to 124, then yeah, I'd be all over that. For the 107 guys, Stage III looks like to be the no-brainer all-around performance king, much more usable power than Stage IV.
Yesterday the roads were *very slightly* misty, and barrelling out of a corner I grabbed a handful of throttle and found the back end starting to slide out from under me. Exhilirating, sure, but also -- yeah, I think the power it has now is plenty for the street.
I do not doubt this. That is pretty much how I describe the Stage II torque cam. It is utterly enormous fun to blast out of corners in 3rd gear and roll on into the straightaways!
I think your perception of Stage III, and my perception of Stage II TQ, is going to differ from the touring guys. You have a Softail, right? Our bikes are 140 to 260 pounds lighter. Someone getting this done on a heavy Ultra or Road Glide probably won't experience the same degree of holding on for dear life. These (comparatively) light bikes, with M8 torque, with a Stage II or Stage III, are pretty dang fun.
Your 117 Stage III does so more aggressively than my 114 Stage II, that is unquestionable.
Which is the dilemma I faced when choosing the Torque or HP cam, and your reasoning is exactly why I went with the Torque cam. I have no doubt you'd smoke me in an all-out, flat-out 1/4 mile drag race. But the torque cam represented the biggest power increase in the most-used driving range (under 4000), and that's what I wanted. It's a nice bonus that it gives an overall power increase all the way to redline as well. Not as much of an increase as Stage III does, but it's still quite a bit stronger than a stock bike (25% more HP at redline).
[I went through the same process, and that's how I settled on the Stage II Torque. I thought 50cc just wasn't enough of a boost. If they were making a 10-cube increase up to 124, then yeah, I'd be all over that. For the 107 guys, Stage III looks like to be the no-brainer all-around performance king, much more usable power than Stage IV.
Yesterday the roads were *very slightly* misty, and barrelling out of a corner I grabbed a handful of throttle and found the back end starting to slide out from under me. Exhilirating, sure, but also -- yeah, I think the power it has now is plenty for the street.
I can tell you my first dyno was far superior to the published HD results. Once my break in is finally complete I will have a full tune dyno. They will give me the sheet so I can post. if you dyno your cam you will be surprised at the difference from the published HD results.