At our HOG meeting, our dealer said we USED to support all turners as we all knew. He said HD is really starting to crack down on their claims and they cant take the risk anymore moving forward. This was in January

 

I have a stage 1 with street cannons. I rode it with just the download for 2000 miles before doing an auto tune. That auto tune is definitely worth doing. The area it made the adjustments was below 1/4 throttle. It now runs absolutely perfect in that range, which makes low speed maneuvers much smoother. Gas mileage went up 2 or 3 mpg. I don't think it changed anything in the upper rpm or throttle range.

 

Bob..thanks. Those are almost exactly same comments that others have said regarding the specifics of improvements. I believe the Stage 1 canned download is overly rich and that it is a bit mushy at 1/4 or so throttle. My MPG has gone down from 40-42 to 37-38 and I get a pretty strong fuel smell after running. That said it does run well just not as crisp as I would expect. In some ways the stock fueling felt crisper.

 

If you're talking about the HD Smart Tune Pro Automatic Tuning Module that uses wide bands... Then I'd say your are likely talking about a waste of money. Since it will be constrained by EPA requirements - which basically means the AFR table can't be messed with - what's it doing for you that the narrow bands that come stock on your bike will not? Essentially the AFR table that you are forced to lived with will be predominately within the range of operation of the narrow bands. So again, what are you getting for the money? An "auto tune" - for what it may be worth? You don't need the STPATM for that.

Perhaps one perspective... The STPATM may be a nice marketing gimmick designed to separate the ignorant from their money.

Now if you have a tune that you want to run (and maintain closed loop control) that has a fair amount of the AFR table set outside the range of narrow bands, then maybe wide bands can have some benefit. But you can't get there with HD's STPATM. You'll need something like DJ's Target Tune.

One last thing... To reiterate... "Auto tune" does not do an automatic "tune" for your bike. There is no such thing.

 

All of Matts videos are geared towards HD only parts it also made me wonder why a aftermarket exhaust was used

 

That isn't what I'm talking about...just the smart tune feature on the SEPST.

 

I believe I heard him say one time that he was the Sales Manager at Laidlaw's HD in Los Angeles. I know that he is probably one of the very best guys at making real informative videos on nearly all the Harley models.

 

Yup your right, I didnt say it was gonna give you all the power your particular combo is capable of, obviously you have to break the law to do that, but it will obviously work on a bike with an aftermarket header while using Harley’s software. I’m not sure what the EPA regs allows them to do, but if you go read the reviews on the smart tune pro on Harley’s website there’s a few people that say it really woke up their stage 3 and 4 combos. I think you still need to have your bike dyno tuned though. I was merely pointing out, for 350 bucks from Utah Harley you can get this tuner and be able to run a header without marking your ECM with an aftermarket tuner, then if the worst happens you can put your stock header back on and get your bike fixed on Harley’s dime. I’d be willing to bet it’s still capable of Getting most of the power out of a run of the mill build, the guy in the second video told me his bike made 117ft lbs with the 447 cam with the smart tune and a dyno tune.

 

agreed,I've asked a few times about the EPA regs and how it really affects the real world tuning, i can only imagine that they would want the engine to run as efficiently as possible,which should mean its making about all the power it can, I mean atuner that allows you to spew out a bunch of unburnt fuel while most likely illegal, is also not going to run very well either. so far no one has said how the SERT limits you, only that it does. is this just paranoia due to the 50 state legal status?

 

In the wrong hands any tuning device has the capability of ruining a perfectly good engine.
The HD products must meet all emissions regs, max power is not the target...emissions are, which equals lean/hot running, especially on traffic.
IMO being able to tune a build for best performance (not spewing unburnt fuel) and best mileage, is the key to getting the most from the investment.
I just don’t see the attraction to a wide band system that the closed loop targets are the same as the narrow band targets.
I have tuned many big inch builds with the narrow bands with great results and see no advantage to the wide band system unless you can’t figure how to get a close base cal., then the wide bands have a better chance of getting the base close.
Bob