Wet sumping article
#1
Wet sumping article
https://www.cycleworld.com/v-twins-a...th-wet-sumping
Not sure what got him writing about it or where he's going with this but it may be a start to press exposure and solutions.
Not sure what got him writing about it or where he's going with this but it may be a start to press exposure and solutions.
#2
Something akin to wet-sumping occurred when the AMA in the 1980s created a spec roadracing class for the Harley-Davidson 883 Sportster. Bikes braking for turns smoked, until the late Don Tilley figured out how to make sure the scavenge oil pump could keep up with the action. Commenting on having being summoned to Milwaukee to share his special knowledge, he said, “Engineers aren’t real comfortable talking with fellas like me, who don’t have a bunch of college degrees.”
The engineers shouldn’t feel bad. When Detroit decided getting involved in NASCAR could sell a lot of cars, they swallowed their pride and sent their corporate jets to fetch in top racing talent like the late Smokey Yunick. Degreed engineers had zero experience with racing, and intelligent men like Yunick and Tilley had both the necessary experience and solutions that worked. That’s usually the way things go; practical people are the first to tackle emerging problems, and only then do science and engineering work out the whys and wherefores, then put the new knowledge into the next editions of their textbooks.
The engineers shouldn’t feel bad. When Detroit decided getting involved in NASCAR could sell a lot of cars, they swallowed their pride and sent their corporate jets to fetch in top racing talent like the late Smokey Yunick. Degreed engineers had zero experience with racing, and intelligent men like Yunick and Tilley had both the necessary experience and solutions that worked. That’s usually the way things go; practical people are the first to tackle emerging problems, and only then do science and engineering work out the whys and wherefores, then put the new knowledge into the next editions of their textbooks.
Good article though. I'm glad someone in some mainstream media form is at least acknowledging the sumping issues.
Last edited by teedoff65; 05-17-2018 at 01:45 PM.
#3
#4
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Campy Roadie (05-22-2018)
#5
#6
What I learned is that wet-sumping isn't as simple as getting the oil out of the bottom of the sump. It would seem it gets pulled up and held there by moving parts. I'd love to see a computer simulation of this.
#7
The funny thing about (most) engineers is that they think the design they just created, which is based entirely on theory and in computers or on paper, will be 100% the same in practice and in action.
This is rarely the case, and as the design increases in complexity, as does the percent chance the product will not follow the design in action.
BTW, not sure a lot of y'all read Cycleworld but he's kind of an icon when it comes to technical writing in the motorcycle world.
This is rarely the case, and as the design increases in complexity, as does the percent chance the product will not follow the design in action.
BTW, not sure a lot of y'all read Cycleworld but he's kind of an icon when it comes to technical writing in the motorcycle world.
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#8
One thing he said that kind of struck me was about the flywheels being too close to the cases. I’m wondering if the flywheels on the 114” and 117” motors are a little bigger and that might be what makes them more prone to sumping?
Also when I was at Steve Cole’s shop he had some M8 cases split and he pointed out that the scraper in those cases wasn’t even tilted up to scrape the oil into the sump. There are other things he pointed out that contribute to sumping.
Also when I was at Steve Cole’s shop he had some M8 cases split and he pointed out that the scraper in those cases wasn’t even tilted up to scrape the oil into the sump. There are other things he pointed out that contribute to sumping.
#9
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Campy Roadie (05-22-2018)
#10
One thing he said that kind of struck me was about the flywheels being too close to the cases. I’m wondering if the flywheels on the 114” and 117” motors are a little bigger and that might be what makes them more prone to sumping?
Also when I was at Steve Cole’s shop he had some M8 cases split and he pointed out that the scraper in those cases wasn’t even tilted up to scrape the oil into the sump. There are other things he pointed out that contribute to sumping.
Also when I was at Steve Cole’s shop he had some M8 cases split and he pointed out that the scraper in those cases wasn’t even tilted up to scrape the oil into the sump. There are other things he pointed out that contribute to sumping.