I'm really interested in the outcome of the, "2019 engine case". Hopefully it works and some details on what was changed go public eventually.
It would be interesting if it ends up being used as a revised replacement part on 17/18 problem engines. AKA, say they finally figured out it's not the oil pump and more of a design issue with the case shape or oil return tube, etc.

 

Everyone is different obviously, but I get this 100%. The solution? Get more power until it scares the snot out of you and go back to the beginning.

I started riding on cruisers and standards. My dad grew up on Honda CBs, he was the guy that would take a bmw r100rt, put a fairing and touring seat on it, and ride the **** out of it. Being young, it's hard to keep up with your friends on sport bikes etc. Switched to rockets, then the speed triple. Loved it for years. Got a little older, smarter, experienced etc, and the bike just scared the hell out of me. Half of me loved the fun/ speed/power, the other half was waiting for a little dip in the road mid corner causing a blip of the throttle, or breathing on the front brake and hitting a wet leaf, or getting another 99mph in a 45mph zone ticket just passing one car etc

made the call to quit or go to something that was fun but didnt push my comfort zone anymore. I've eyeballed the stage 2 and stage 4 kits myself, but I know what you said is 100% true. Stick with stage 1 and enjoy it, or start jumping down the rabbit hole.

so that's my long winded way of saying it's not just you, it's a reasonable problem, but maybe you should look into having Harley cut a stupid deal on a new STOCK cvo for you, and grab a secondary bike to scare yourself on. Not that you should have to, but kills two birds with one stone and you get stop being the moco Guinea pig for their high po m8 builds.

 

Sage advice for sure. But to be honest I hardly find the 117 Stage IV power enough to scare the hell outta me. Its just good solid power throughout the RPM band. Its definitely not "radical" power in my opinion. In fact I would say the Stage IV engine is the way the M8 should be delivered from the factory. Sure... the Stage IV should have abit more low end torque, but its a great power compromise while being 50 State emission legal. Plus with a simple cam swap down the road you can make serious power even down low. But I get it. HD has a business model to make $ and choking these bikes from the factory to get guys to pay up for decent power is a good way to make more money for MoCo and work for the dealerships.

These are heavy, expensive bikes. HDs premium motorcycle with a stock 117 is making just over 90hp with abit over 100 ftlbs out of 1.9L engine. Nothing very special from an engineering perspective. Heck, Briggs and Stratton makes lawn mower v-twin engines with 35hp out of less than a liter displacement for a couple grand $.

From my perspective, having the Stage IV performance merely gives these bikes the decent performance they should have had all along.

 

holds true for the most part for me as well..back in 1985 while I was still racing motocross I bought a Honda 500 Interceptor and quickly proceeded to get a ticket for going 100 mph..56 now and while I occassionaly hit 100 briefly in just the right circumstances, I've lost the need for speed I once had

 

Or another route would be forget about the harley stage 4 kit, ride stock or even stage 2 until your warranty runs out, then go as big as you want with all aftermarket upgrades. Mostly likely more performance, better quality, and probably cheaper. And no sumping.

I get the whole "once you've ridden a bike with more power, its impossible(hard, not impossible lol) to go back", but it seems at this point, the risk outweighs the reward by a long shot. Unless MOCO could prove to me that they have indeed identified the cause, id have to steer clear of their stage kits.

 

You're a very patient fellow and I commend you for your composure. I guess it helps that your dealer and HD is backing up their warranty without any finger pointing. But, you're on your forth engine? I like to think I'd be as patient but damn. I'd really be pressing for some answers. Specifically, what is different about this engine that fixes the problem. And, do you guys even have a clue what the problem is? Answers! I'd want some answers. But, maybe they don't have any to give. They must not know or the problem would be fixed???
OP you are the man!

 

Yep, that's another good approach as well. Been there, done it. My other bike followed that same path. But it also gets expensive and can have the same downtime with no warranty coverage. I figured when I bought this bike (I was one of the first to take delivery on this red CVO Limited on the East Coast), that I would take a different path than my previous bikes. Keep all the major components in the Mothership's hands and warranty. In my case, they have stood behind the bike when a failure with aftermarket parts would have meant a much lighter wallet to fix. In my case, as frustrating as it has been, my dealer has been terrific and MoCo has stood behind the bike. Overnighting engines, custom "one-off' cylinders, overnighting oil pumps, putting a 7yr warranty on the bike at no charge to me. I certainly can't fault them for at least trying to make things right. But I also wish I had never had to deal with this crap. I also wish HD had been more forthright about what they know to be wrong with these engines instead of me earning an R&D merit badge for them.

But the past can't be changed. Now all I can do is hope that this latest 2019 engine corrects the sumping errors and gives me miles of trouble-free riding. I should know by Sunday after I put 500+ miles on the bike heading to Rolling Thunder, assuming I get it back today or tomorrow.

 

I can't say I've "lost the need for speed", at least not yet (and I'm abit older than you). I still like opening the throttle on my 750hp Supercharged 502 in my boat or my 550hp Audi or my 400hp GTO but its definitely much briefer and rarer than decades ago.

 

yeah, I haven't lost it either, but like I said..lost the amount of it I once had, which was basically WFO most everywhere, on and off road, my muscle cars, downhill skiing..honestly at times I reflect and think there's no way I should have lived this long

 

oh for sure, but to clarify I meant have harley give you a steal on a stock bike for touring / riding and have another that's actually a scary fast bike. Or, as much as I hate to say it, wash your hands of it, ride the 110 that's running without issues, and get that a fast tourer/wait for the moco to figure it out. I love my bike, but issues are issues.

obviously they need parts to sell for profit (stage kits), and improvements to keep people upgrading down the road (oem 107 to 114 to 117 etc). We all know this. That's why we get a stock detuned 107 now and 5 years from now we will see a bulletproof stage 4 107/114 as standard. Basic business.

we also have to remember that bike sales are down in general, people my age are having a hard time making a stable homestead, let alone have toys like a bike, and they just paid out the **** for the EPA issues. Not to mention r&d and manufacturing cost to comply with the newer standards a few years away. They arent going to blow the whistle on themselves, imo. We wont know from them what the problem was for years I dont think. It'll either get fixed over night at some point and just stop being a problem quietly, or someone will be a whistle blower. Be it aftermarket or someone inside the moco etc. Again, just my opinion. Hope it works out dude. If you need anything around DC/ Baltimore during your trip, remember you got forum friends all over the place!