117 Cvo Limited....2nd engine in 2000 miles
#81
10-06-2018, 07:15 PM
2017-2018 not so good for Honda either for a very popular SUV .... https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/h...ngine-trouble/
Or the owners it’s the owners who get screwed.
Or the owners it’s the owners who get screwed.
#82
11-12-2018, 07:08 PM
Im about to pull my hair out but i cant. Im bald. Im 58 years old been riding harleys since 1980.
i figured id treat myself to a new 2018 CVO Limited with the 117 C.I. engine. And i did. At 600 miles the oil pump sumped and bike overheated and died. Bike went to dealer. I went to Uber with my girl and went home.
Oil pump was changed for the "revised" oil pump and two weeks later i got my bike back.
The bike ran until 700 miles then the engine started to sound like it was coming apart. Back i go to dealer. This time the cam assembly bracket had cracked. They replaced both.
Why no recall or bulliten on this i dont know. They replaced it or them not sure with a "redesigned" bracket.
How there was a redesigned improved bracket in july when i just took delivery end of April i dont know.
On the dealers test of the brand new top end it overheated again at 13 miles. They also found the pistons scoring the walls of the cylinders. I requested a new engine from millwalkie. They said sorry. I begged. They said sorry.
i posted this story on the stockholders web site and 3 days later i had a new engine. Problem solved. No.
With new engine on 75 degree day riding 1 up the bike again overheated to 308 degrees and sumped. The bike was full of oil cold before i left the house. I was on the return leg of 200 mile day and the bike got sluggish on the highway.
i pulled over and checked the engine temp it was 308 degrees and there was no oil on the stick meaning at least a quart of oil was sumped and stuck up in the engine not able to find its way down to the pan.
Shes back at the dealer now and they said the cylinders are also scored again. They have a few 117's doing this and the fact that an engine replacement didnt fix this issue is concerning.
The bike will be down about 8 weeks in total since end of April.
I love this bike. It is the most powerfull bike ive ever had and the most gorgeous machine ever....but....it is unreliable as is the Factories ability to get to the root cause.
wish me luck...
thanks
i figured id treat myself to a new 2018 CVO Limited with the 117 C.I. engine. And i did. At 600 miles the oil pump sumped and bike overheated and died. Bike went to dealer. I went to Uber with my girl and went home.
Oil pump was changed for the "revised" oil pump and two weeks later i got my bike back.
The bike ran until 700 miles then the engine started to sound like it was coming apart. Back i go to dealer. This time the cam assembly bracket had cracked. They replaced both.
Why no recall or bulliten on this i dont know. They replaced it or them not sure with a "redesigned" bracket.
How there was a redesigned improved bracket in july when i just took delivery end of April i dont know.
On the dealers test of the brand new top end it overheated again at 13 miles. They also found the pistons scoring the walls of the cylinders. I requested a new engine from millwalkie. They said sorry. I begged. They said sorry.
i posted this story on the stockholders web site and 3 days later i had a new engine. Problem solved. No.
With new engine on 75 degree day riding 1 up the bike again overheated to 308 degrees and sumped. The bike was full of oil cold before i left the house. I was on the return leg of 200 mile day and the bike got sluggish on the highway.
i pulled over and checked the engine temp it was 308 degrees and there was no oil on the stick meaning at least a quart of oil was sumped and stuck up in the engine not able to find its way down to the pan.
Shes back at the dealer now and they said the cylinders are also scored again. They have a few 117's doing this and the fact that an engine replacement didnt fix this issue is concerning.
The bike will be down about 8 weeks in total since end of April.
I love this bike. It is the most powerfull bike ive ever had and the most gorgeous machine ever....but....it is unreliable as is the Factories ability to get to the root cause.
wish me luck...
thanks
The dealer put an end to this and took the bike back and allowed me into a 2019 Cvo limited.
I just got the new bike last week. Silver.
Unfortunately temps are now around 45 degrees so miles will be limited as it gets colder but....this nightmare is over.
The following users liked this post:
Johnny Goodlife (11-12-2018)
#83
11-12-2018, 07:32 PM
Road Captain
End of story. Since i wrote this the bike had one new engine and two top end rebuilds. It still overheated to the poing where the plastic oil dip stick melted and looked like melted chewing gum as it was pulled from the engine.
The dealer put an end to this and took the bike back and allowed me into a 2019 Cvo limited.
I just got the new bike last week. Silver.
Unfortunately temps are now around 45 degrees so miles will be limited as it gets colder but....this nightmare is over.
The dealer put an end to this and took the bike back and allowed me into a 2019 Cvo limited.
I just got the new bike last week. Silver.
Unfortunately temps are now around 45 degrees so miles will be limited as it gets colder but....this nightmare is over.
#84
11-12-2018, 10:07 PM
End of story. Since i wrote this the bike had one new engine and two top end rebuilds. It still overheated to the poing where the plastic oil dip stick melted and looked like melted chewing gum as it was pulled from the engine.
The dealer put an end to this and took the bike back and allowed me into a 2019 Cvo limited.
I just got the new bike last week. Silver.
Unfortunately temps are now around 45 degrees so miles will be limited as it gets colder but....this nightmare is over.
The dealer put an end to this and took the bike back and allowed me into a 2019 Cvo limited.
I just got the new bike last week. Silver.
Unfortunately temps are now around 45 degrees so miles will be limited as it gets colder but....this nightmare is over.
#85
11-13-2018, 12:56 AM
2017-2018 not so good for Honda either for a very popular SUV .... https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/h...ngine-trouble/
Or the owners it’s the owners who get screwed.
Or the owners it’s the owners who get screwed.
There was some comment above that the sumping could not be a design issue because it doesn't happen to all M8's. Not true. It probably is a design issue in that the design is marginal to begin with and a combination of manufacturing variation, environmental conditions and user variation combine to make it happen in some units and not others. And, it's probably a run away type of problem that can go undetected at a low level until some combination of usage and conditions makes it reach a threshold and it suddenly becomes extreme.
#86
11-16-2018, 01:39 AM
Club Member
Sumping
I own a 2017 CVO, I had the motor rebuilt under warranty after 2000 miles. I had excessive oil consumption from the factory leaving some parts out.(Skirt Oilers) Ive read the posts about sumping and I guess Im just not clear on what's happening with the M8. When a pan, shovel, or Evo sumps it is because the oil pump check valve leaks and oil drains from the oil bag into the flywheel cases. When the motor is turned over(started) the scavenger pump picks up the excess oil and it pukes it out of the vent tube into the air cleaner or on the ground. This leaves the oil bag low on oil, and oil must be added.
On my antique Harleys if too much oil is added Via the hand pump there will be increased drag, but I've never experienced that with pans, shovels and evos, they merely puke it out on the ground.
As I understand the M8 issue the oil is leaving the reservoir and is somehow remaining in the crankcase?? How is it not expelled via the scavenger?? In an earlier post one guy said his sumped and his oil got hot because it stayed in the engine, and he measured temp via a temp dipstick? If there's no oil in the reservoir how did it record a temp? I run cylinder head temp gauges on my antiques and they run between 250 degrees and 450 degrees, although the system is total loss, the oil in the crankcase stays there for a couple hundred miles and is splashed on the cylinders. It gets pretty warm, and doesn't break down. I realize theres a huge diff in the way both engines are set up with respect to clearances, but my point is what a previous post said about oil getting 300 degrees and causing cylinder scoring because there was too much oil???? That just doesn't jive to me....???
Im not implying that theres a problem between the seat and the handlebars, Im just trying to figure out what is '' Sumping" the primary, or the engine???? Can someone clear this up for me??
On my antique Harleys if too much oil is added Via the hand pump there will be increased drag, but I've never experienced that with pans, shovels and evos, they merely puke it out on the ground.
As I understand the M8 issue the oil is leaving the reservoir and is somehow remaining in the crankcase?? How is it not expelled via the scavenger?? In an earlier post one guy said his sumped and his oil got hot because it stayed in the engine, and he measured temp via a temp dipstick? If there's no oil in the reservoir how did it record a temp? I run cylinder head temp gauges on my antiques and they run between 250 degrees and 450 degrees, although the system is total loss, the oil in the crankcase stays there for a couple hundred miles and is splashed on the cylinders. It gets pretty warm, and doesn't break down. I realize theres a huge diff in the way both engines are set up with respect to clearances, but my point is what a previous post said about oil getting 300 degrees and causing cylinder scoring because there was too much oil???? That just doesn't jive to me....???
Im not implying that theres a problem between the seat and the handlebars, Im just trying to figure out what is '' Sumping" the primary, or the engine???? Can someone clear this up for me??
#87
11-17-2018, 05:04 PM
Tourer
#88
11-17-2018, 07:18 PM
Just spitballing here but is it possible that Harley has designed an engine that when ridden by the 3%-4% of riders that ride hard and really put it to the test as a matter of routine, just will not hold up? It's the only thing that makes since when I keep reading about one guy going through several engines. It's like getting hit by lightning three storms in a row. It just does not make statistic sense if it's a random flaw situation. I am not saying the riders are doing anything wrong, these bikes should be made to hold up.
The following users liked this post:
VDeuce (11-18-2018)
#89
11-18-2018, 12:20 AM
Just spitballing here but is it possible that Harley has designed an engine that when ridden by the 3%-4% of riders that ride hard and really put it to the test as a matter of routine, just will not hold up? It's the only thing that makes since when I keep reading about one guy going through several engines. It's like getting hit by lightning three storms in a row. It just does not make statistic sense if it's a random flaw situation. I am not saying the riders are doing anything wrong, these bikes should be made to hold up.
Agree; if this only affected a very small # of bikes it doesn’t make “statistical sense” that some of the same guys have sumped multiple engines & even sumped completely different bikes back to back, the odds just don’t point to a “random flaw” in a very small/single digit % of bikes.
Last edited by STRADALE; 11-18-2018 at 12:24 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by STRADALE:
Tonebender (11-18-2018),
VDeuce (11-18-2018)
#90
11-18-2018, 08:07 AM
Here we go again! When will the guys chanting “sumping doesn’t effect that many bikes” finally wake up? Sorry to hear of your troubles. I’m sorry to say but you have a hard road of frustration ahead. I went through 4 engines on my 2017 CVO Limited. I’m finally out of the bike and I can say I don’t miss the bike in the least.
Having seen 2 yrs of BS and 10 revisions of the oil pump, trust me, all you guys have a huge amount of disappointment ahead. Each if the previous revised oil pumps were all considered to be the “FINAL” solution to sumping issues. Various sized nserts to the inlet, polishing, torque specs and now a gasket. Trust me, there’s not a chance in hell that this latest version will be any different from the previous versions.
its all tinkering around the serious design defect in the engine case itself. You guys can deny it all you want but until the M8 case is redesigned to address oil flow, we will continue to see more and more bikes sumping and sad stories from brand new bike owners. Sorry to say this, but welcome to the sumping party that HD refuses to acknowledge as a recall.
its also odd that not every engine does it. I’m on my second M8, first was a 107 second is a 117 with a combined 14k miles. Both have been run hard and not a single issue with either. That also makes the problem hard to track down.