Stage 1 Warranty Question
#1
11-21-2018, 03:25 PM
Stage 1 Warranty Question
Tried looking but couldn't get a direct answer to a couple questions:
If I prefer a Non Harley Head Pipe and Slip on(Magna Flow), but use a Harley Air Cleaner(Heavy Breather) and use the Screamin Eagle Tuner, will it void a warranty?
Will the Screamin Eagle Tuner support any Exhaust/Air Cleaner combo outside of the Harley line? (Since they sell Vance and Hines on the dealer floor I thought yes?)
If it does support, would a Dyno most likely be required as opposed to hoping to find the right Flash?
Do these questions make sense?
Thanks!
OV
If I prefer a Non Harley Head Pipe and Slip on(Magna Flow), but use a Harley Air Cleaner(Heavy Breather) and use the Screamin Eagle Tuner, will it void a warranty?
Will the Screamin Eagle Tuner support any Exhaust/Air Cleaner combo outside of the Harley line? (Since they sell Vance and Hines on the dealer floor I thought yes?)
If it does support, would a Dyno most likely be required as opposed to hoping to find the right Flash?
Do these questions make sense?
Thanks!
OV
#2
11-21-2018, 03:38 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
If you install an aftermarket head pipe which is not EPA compliant Harley-Davidson can void your power train warranty. Read your owners manual, it makes it pretty clear.
Your dealer may make you sincere promises, and if so would likely honor those promises - if they have your bike. Out of town? Good luck.
Your dealer may make you sincere promises, and if so would likely honor those promises - if they have your bike. Out of town? Good luck.
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One Vision (11-21-2018)
#3
11-21-2018, 05:15 PM
Grand HDF Member
Dealers will sell you anything you want to buy, regardless of whether it works well or voids your warranty.
EPA-compliant parts should not adversely affect your warranty.
Non-EPA parts result in the bike not complying with federal emissions control regulations, and Harley says in it's warranty that if you render the bike unable to meet the regulations of the territory it's registered in, the warranty is void.
The Screaming Eagle Pro Street Tuner does not have any maps to accommodate aftermarket parts, it only has maps for EPA-compliant tunes using combinations of Screaming Eagle parts. You can choose a base map that generally matches your equipment and then run some SmartTune sessions to dial the tuner in to your particular equipment. The tuner has some ability to adapt, but it can only adapt within a limited range to keep the resulting tune EPA-compliant.
There are third parties making EPA-compliant intakes and exhausts, like some of the Arlen Ness Big Suckers and some S&S mufflers and exhaust systems. If you use that type of equipment, the SE tuner can probably adapt and deliver good results.
If you choose non-compliant parts, you're pretty much screwed, because those parts may be enough for Harley to void your powertrain warranty, but even if they don't, there's a chance the SE tuner won't be able to properly tune those parts, resulting in a poor running bike.
if you choose an aftermarket tuner, that will absolutely positively immediately void your powertrain warranty.
If you want performance upgrade parts and also want to maintain the warranty, stick with either Screaming Eagle parts or EPA-compliant parts that have a CARB certificate.
EPA-compliant parts should not adversely affect your warranty.
Non-EPA parts result in the bike not complying with federal emissions control regulations, and Harley says in it's warranty that if you render the bike unable to meet the regulations of the territory it's registered in, the warranty is void.
The Screaming Eagle Pro Street Tuner does not have any maps to accommodate aftermarket parts, it only has maps for EPA-compliant tunes using combinations of Screaming Eagle parts. You can choose a base map that generally matches your equipment and then run some SmartTune sessions to dial the tuner in to your particular equipment. The tuner has some ability to adapt, but it can only adapt within a limited range to keep the resulting tune EPA-compliant.
There are third parties making EPA-compliant intakes and exhausts, like some of the Arlen Ness Big Suckers and some S&S mufflers and exhaust systems. If you use that type of equipment, the SE tuner can probably adapt and deliver good results.
If you choose non-compliant parts, you're pretty much screwed, because those parts may be enough for Harley to void your powertrain warranty, but even if they don't, there's a chance the SE tuner won't be able to properly tune those parts, resulting in a poor running bike.
if you choose an aftermarket tuner, that will absolutely positively immediately void your powertrain warranty.
If you want performance upgrade parts and also want to maintain the warranty, stick with either Screaming Eagle parts or EPA-compliant parts that have a CARB certificate.
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One Vision (11-24-2018)
#4
11-21-2018, 07:46 PM
Road Warrior
I would check with my local dealer, get their approval and carry on. Any manufacture warranty is a legal binding contract you need to adhere to. If you decide you what to go outside that agreement get some authorization. Your dealer is the owner of that contract, the parent company pays them for all warranty repairs. If your dealer is good with your modifications life is good.
#5
11-21-2018, 08:07 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
I would check with my local dealer, get their approval and carry on. Any manufacture warranty is a legal binding contract you need to adhere to. If you decide you what to go outside that agreement get some authorization. Your dealer is the owner of that contract, the parent company pays them for all warranty repairs. If your dealer is good with your modifications life is good.
Some do it, but as said above, you better not have a warranty issue away from your dealer. You could be in trouble.
#6
11-21-2018, 08:33 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#7
11-21-2018, 09:26 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
not sure why people offer their interpretations instead of just reading their manuals
No person, including Harley-Davidson dealers, may modify, extend or waive any part of this warranty.
- Authorized Harley-Davidson dealers are independently owned and operated and may sell non-Harley-Davidson products. Because of this, HARLEY-DAVIDSON IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY, QUALITY, OR SUITABILITY OF ANY NON-HARLEY-DAVIDSON PART, ACCESSORY OR DESIGN MODIFICATION INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LABOR WHICH MAY BE SOLD AND/OR INSTALLED BY AUTHORIZED HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALERS.
- This limited warranty is a contract between you and Harley-Davidson. It is separate and apart from any warranty you may receive or purchase from an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer. An authorized Harley-Davidson dealer is not authorized to alter, modify, expand, or in any way change the terms and conditions of this limited warranty.
No person, including Harley-Davidson dealers, may modify, extend or waive any part of this warranty.
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#8
11-21-2018, 09:50 PM
On my previous HDs, I de-catted and tuned with a TTS, but with the 2019 Ultra Limited I just bought I decided that it wasn't worth it to risk voiding the warranty. It sucks, but I guess that's the way it is now. I had a set of S&S MK45s, SE air cleaner, and the Pro Street Tuner installed yesterday. The pipes sound great, the bike runs strong, and I don't have to worry about a repair being denied when I'm broken down 2,000 miles from home. From what I've been told, just don't mess with the head pipes (unless they're SE high flow) or tune with anything other than the SE tuner and you'll be fine.
#9
11-21-2018, 10:30 PM
I’ve had numerous bikes with aftermarket headers w/ warranty repairs done at 2 local dealerships both before and after the Concocted Clean Air Act settlement/sham. A lot depends on the dealerships & where the work was done if done at a dealership. Would it be a problem if I had needed a whole new motor, maybe but to use people’s words here; life is too short to worry about whether something bad will happen to my bike not to really enjoy it...
These epa bikes are neutered & run like crap w/ the cat & the tuning/AFR/timing is completely off, the heat is horrible for the rider & bad for the motor & the sound is terrible.....An after market tuner, header, proper dyno tune turns these bikes into what they should be from the factory, how Harley would sell them if their hands weren’t tied & makes everything that much more fun; much crisper throttle response, no lag/dead spots (you might not notice it till you see a dyno chart or once you change the tuner & tune & go for your first ride) more & smoother hp & tq across the rev band, running cooler & sounds amazing w/ the right pipe & slip ons....
Now having said all that it’s still a calculation; if I bought a new M8 I’d hesitate to risk the warranty at this point in time, till they get everything sorted or till my warranty was up. One of the reasons I’d never give up a reflashed & FullSac headers CVO SG 110 for a oem M8 right now, having to go back to a oem pipe, epa neutered oem tune & the M8 w/ cat the sound is crappy in comparison,, that would really suck *****. Once these new M8 motors go through their teething it’d be worth it just from my personal perspective. Or just say F.ck it I really want to enjoy my bike & get rid of the garbage parts & tune, in that case I’d say good in you.
These epa bikes are neutered & run like crap w/ the cat & the tuning/AFR/timing is completely off, the heat is horrible for the rider & bad for the motor & the sound is terrible.....An after market tuner, header, proper dyno tune turns these bikes into what they should be from the factory, how Harley would sell them if their hands weren’t tied & makes everything that much more fun; much crisper throttle response, no lag/dead spots (you might not notice it till you see a dyno chart or once you change the tuner & tune & go for your first ride) more & smoother hp & tq across the rev band, running cooler & sounds amazing w/ the right pipe & slip ons....
Now having said all that it’s still a calculation; if I bought a new M8 I’d hesitate to risk the warranty at this point in time, till they get everything sorted or till my warranty was up. One of the reasons I’d never give up a reflashed & FullSac headers CVO SG 110 for a oem M8 right now, having to go back to a oem pipe, epa neutered oem tune & the M8 w/ cat the sound is crappy in comparison,, that would really suck *****. Once these new M8 motors go through their teething it’d be worth it just from my personal perspective. Or just say F.ck it I really want to enjoy my bike & get rid of the garbage parts & tune, in that case I’d say good in you.
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One Vision (11-24-2018)
#10
11-21-2018, 10:46 PM
Grand HDF Member
As was said above, the dealer is not part of the Harley factory warranty. No dealer can void the warranty, and no dealer can get around the terms of the warranty (unless the dealer is willing to lie to and cheat Harley on your behalf... Don't count on that.)
But there are two other scenarios too. There are extended warranties, which neither the dealer nor Harley are party to. Those are contracts between the rider and the warranty company. These warranties are supposed to be good at any dealer.
And there's the possibility of the dealership warranty contract. There are some dealers who offer a lifetime warranty on the bike, as long as you own it. In some cases that may be a contract between the dealership and the buyer; this warranty would only be good at that particular dealership.
But there are two other scenarios too. There are extended warranties, which neither the dealer nor Harley are party to. Those are contracts between the rider and the warranty company. These warranties are supposed to be good at any dealer.
And there's the possibility of the dealership warranty contract. There are some dealers who offer a lifetime warranty on the bike, as long as you own it. In some cases that may be a contract between the dealership and the buyer; this warranty would only be good at that particular dealership.